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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by carolinatony, Apr 26, 2009.

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  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    Due to the ties to us and BB there will be a link to the Browns,Chiefs and Denver. The media won't let it go either so what are your thoughts on there drafts?
    I didn't think any did that well drafting.
    The Chiefs reached at 3 imo and didn't have many picks after that . Their fans are not too excited yet and it will take a few years to see is Pioli can turn them around.
    The Browns surprised me trading with the jets and they didn't make seem to have a special draft. They did nothing in FA and I give Mangina 3 yrs and he will be out.
    Denver- Does anyone think McDaniels stays longer than 2 years?

    No matter if you agree with BB or not; he makes draft day exciting for us.
     
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Denver did a solid job. With Moreno, that offense could be nasty. Other than that, nothing special out of the Browns and Chiefs.
     
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At first blush, it appears that both Denver and the Chiefs both did well.
     
  4. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Trading next year's first round pick is the height of arrogance for a .500ish team that lost its Pro Bowl QB in the offseason.
     
  5. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They had 2. They've still got 1.
     
  6. muslimman

    muslimman On the Game Day Roster

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    Are you kidding?!? I thought Denver's draft was horrible.

    Many things wrong with their 1st pick in Moreno. There need (and I mean urgent need) was on defense but no instead they draft at a position where they are probably the strongest. Not counting Moreno they already have EIGHT running backs... JJ Arington, LaMont Jordan, Peyton Hillis (FB?), Correll Buckhalter Selvin Young, Andre Hall, Ryan Torain, Andrew Pinnock (ok maybe this guy is a FB). With those guys they could have a pretty effective committee of RBs, while a couple of them could easily be starters in the future. On top of that Moreno was not regarded as the best RB in the draft, in fact most experts didnt have him going until pick 20 or later. I cant believe the Broncos picked him at 12 when even an infant knows that a late round back (even an undrafted one i.e. BJGE) can be plugged in to produce, especially in a run oriented team like the Broncos. They were having huge amounts of success with their supposed FB Hillis late last year.

    Their next huge mistake was pretty much giving away their first on 2010 to the Seahawks. I dont care if you have another 1st rounder next year a team should not so recklessly throw one away. After all that hoopla they select Alphonso Smith who I didnt even see as a Top 5 CB prospect. Its looking like now they may have given the Seahawks a Top 10 pick next year.

    In addition to all of that though they also went out and drafted another tight end in the second round. They already have a much better tight end corps then most teams in Tony Scheffler, Daniel Graham, and recently signed Adam Bergen.

    The other decision that disappointed me was that they waited until the end of the 6th round to pick a pedestrian QB. Sure he could be good but its definitely no guarantee, steals like Brady come once in a lifetime. This guy comes across more like a Cassel type development QB. You would think with them recently losing their Pro Bowl Franchise QB the Broncos would address that early but apparently they are going to stick with Kyle Orton (thats the guy who used to back up Rex Grossman. Yuck) and Chris Simms another JAG and career backup.

    Most of their other picks were pretty standard just plug into the depth chart defensive guys... no one I really liked or see as a steal for them.

    At this point this draft looks atrocious but then again I could be completely wrong and it could turn out great. Im doubtful though.
     
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    They traded their own pick. They kept Chicago's.

    My point is that if the team has a bad record in 2009, then it was a very costly trade -- kind of like SF's trade with us, but perhaps even worse.
     
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Chiefs got Cassel and a potential stud on the D-Line. If you look at it that way, it's looking good for them.
     
  9. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Denver has 8 RBs, but they're all either below average, or terrible. I don't like the pick, but Moreno should be better than every back on the roster. My biggest issue is that RBs have short careers, and I think Denver is a couple years away.


    As for KC, I like the #3 pick. I don't know a ton about Jackson, but build the lines first is classic Patriots/Pioli. Remember, almost everyone thought Seymour was a reach.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  10. PatDaPatriot

    PatDaPatriot On the Game Day Roster

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    Atlanta should be included in the discussion. IMO, Dimitroff did better than both Pioli and McDaniels...
     
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uh, not really. NONE of the guys that you mentioned are starters. Some of those guys are just insurance policies that Josh brought in should he not be able to find a cornerstone at running back. Now that he has, look for a couple of them to be dumped. Their glaring need on defense (especially with the 3-4 being imported) was a franchise type of NT. That was B.J. Raji. Unfortunately, Raji had already gone three picks prior to the Packers. After that, there wasn't a NT worthy of being drafted in that spot in the first round so Josh, being an offensive minded coach, took care of the next glaring need -- Running back. And, in doing so, removed the one guy from the board that the Chargers (their competition) really needed.

    Please name the most highly regarded running back in this year's draft if it wasn't Knowshon Moreno. And please don't say Beanie Wells who damn near went into the second round.

    I wouldn't say that Hillis was having "HUGE", amounts of success. But the success he did have can more or less be pointed to a combination of stellar offensive line play and defenses keying in on Jay Cutler and the pass.

    LOL. If you don't see Alphonso Smith as a Top Five CB prospect then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should go back and watch a few games of his from last year. He has shutdown corner potential and is one helluva ballhawk. However, having missed Raji in the first round, I would have personally went after Brace if I were Josh. If you're switching to the 3-4, the NT is necessary and Brace would have went along well with the Ayers pick (which I also liked). But Denver's secondary was go awful as well last year and Champ Bailey is not the same guy as he used to be. I can see why he would go after a cornerback, but I would have addressed the DL first.

    See now I completely agree with you here. I don't know what the hell they were thinking. Graham is an excellent blocking tight end and Scheffler is a good receiving tight end. There didn't appear to be a need for this at all. I think this is the one spot where they faltered. The only thing that I can think of is that were weren't any DL players there that caught his eye. But yeah, real head scratcher.

    Lightning struck twice with Cassel. He developed mostly under Josh's tutilege and it showed last year. McDaniels has good chemistry with quarterbacks and Brandstater appears to have a very strong arm with good instincts. He'll need to learn presence in the pocket (especially at NFL speed) but he has a couple of years to learn that. Not to mention, he will likely be coming into an excellent offense, should he see the field. However, this can also be for depth, since the Broncos had very little of that after they traded Cutler. McDaniels may be waiting until next year to bring in a franchise quarterback. Until then, this is one that he can develop because Brandstater has the same physical tools as a Brady or a Cassel (though not as mobile). And Orton did a pretty decent job with the Bears, where his two offensive weapons were Matt Forte and Devin Hester (a cornerback/return man turned into receiver). I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have success in a much more loaded Broncos offense. Is he the long term solution? Absolutely not. But he's a good stopgap.

    Most of our drafts (including this one) usually get responses like this. :D
     
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the Bears have a bad record, they get a great pick there. So what?

    We just watched BB deliberately trade completely out of the first round, we saw every team at the top trying to trade out of their position, we saw Cleveland practically give away the #5 pick, and people still think that getting a top pick like that is some kind of Godsend....
     
  13. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Kon

    Good analysis. I would point out a few things:

    On NFLN, Mayock had Brace as a third round pick. We did move up so maybe McD was expecting there in the second round. Perhaps that's why he moved up on Smith and got him before we moved. I don't have a problem here because if Smith is a quality player, it's either shut down coverage for pass rush. Availabilty devoid of pass rush makes the choice obvious.

    If BB is correct and this draft sucked, it's tough to get quality players when none existed.
    I would expect McD to perhaps shop Graham or Schefler and maybe get a player or pick for next year.
     
  14. reamer

    reamer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    A lot of people are ragging on the Broncos draft, but how many of you looked at their depth chart prior to criticizing their personnel moves? I was as confused as anyone by their moves, so I looked up the DL on their roster. I was, frankly, quite surprised. Here's a list of guys they've acquired this year through free agency or undrafted free agency:

    Parker, J'Vonne 6'4 325
    Fields, Ronald 6'2 315
    Pedescleaux, Everette 6'6 310
    Baker, Chris 6'2 326

    Dunno about you, but that looks to me like a nascent 34 DL. Add to that some of their former DEs who can probably make the conversion to OLB (at least part time, since they're running a hybrid scheme), not to mention Robert Ayers, and I think their defense is much stronger and bigger up front than last year. Maybe this is why they didn't build the lines through the draft?

    Plus they've drafted some extremely talented secondary players and paired them with some of the best at their position for mentors (Baily, Dawkins). I think Smith and McBath are going to be extremely good. Maybe not pro-bowlers, but perennial high-level performers, and that's a pretty good thing to have coming out of a draft.

    Bottom line, McDaniels drafted at least five starters, picked up a couple free agents after the draft with starting/rotational talent, and already has in place the makings of a top-three offense for next year. I'm not a Broncos fan by any stretch of the imagination, but that's pretty solid for a first-year coach in a rebuilding effort. I really think they can win the AFC West.
     
  15. matt9071

    matt9071 Practice Squad Player

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    I think cleveland did ok, especially with the jets trade cause now mangini has three familiar faces on his roster to work with.
     
  16. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not if you're waiting for action in the first round. When he traded back twice I found it more frustrating than anything. Not that I think he did anything wrong, but when you're watching the draft with anticipation and your team keeps taking a pass -- especially when no one can explain why -- it's kind of unnerving.
     
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that so far Tom Dimitroff has proven himself to be on heck of a GM. The Matt Ryan move was gutsy and brilliant - many people thought Ryan was a question mark and that Atlanta should take Glenn Dorsey, and questioned moving up for Sam Baker at OT, but Dimitroff was right on the money with both of those moves - and with signing Turner as a FA - and turned that franchise around faster than anyone thought possible. Now he's added Tony Gonzalez on offense and a nice range of players on defense. Peria Jerry, William Moore, and Lawrence Sidbury are perfect fits.

    The thing that Dimitroff has done to me that really distinguishes himself from all of the other ex-Pats - including even Pioli - is that he hasn't just tried to rebuild what the Pats had. Atlanta's not a 3-4 team, and Dimitroff hasn't trade to change the scheme when the personnel didn't fit. Jerry will be a great penetrating DT for them in the 4-3, and Sidbury adds a nice athletic rusher along with John Abraham, in case Anderson doesn't get any better.

    Pioli has done a nice job with getting Matt Cassel to solve the QB dilemma, but I'm frankly disappointed that he's trying to build a 4-3 defense when he had a lot of talent on defense that didn't fit that style - Glenn Dorsey, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, among others. I think Tyson Jackson is a huge reach at #3 - a Ty Warren talent at best. I think he would have been much better off taking Eugene Monroe at OT and building his OL with bookend tackles to protect Matt Cassel.

    I think Josh McDaniels has come across as green and arrogant. Cutler may be a turd, but McDaniels certainly did a poor job of handling that situation, and lost a lot of talent on offense. Then they traded away a 2010 1st round pick to move up and get a short unathletic CB. Alphonso Smith may have terrific ball skills, but I'm far from sold that he was worth giving up that much. He probably would have lasted till #48, where I think Darcel McBath was a reach. Moreno is a terrific RB prospect, but the Broncos went out and signed several RBs in FA, which seems like a waste of resources. And I'm not convinced that Robert Ayers is a good fit at 3-4 OLB - he seems like a better 4-3 DE fit to me.
     
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