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Our Energy Policy Is The Root of Our Terrorism Problem

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by All_Around_Brown, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Can we discuss something we should all agree on but few pols have the sack to face up to?

    ENERGY INDEPENDANCE

    If we could put say 10% of what we have already spent on trying to secure middle east oil, while making these greedy oil CEO bastards slovenly rich, wouldn't we have, by now, a liquid fuel made in the USA?? Furthermore, wouldn't that alleviate alot of the tension seen in the middle east?

    I think so. Some say its too expensive to try. I say its too expensive not to. Ok, so we have a 10% ethanol additive in our gas now and that is all fine and dandy. Thats a drop in the bucket. But what about Cafe standards? Can't we all agree that we need to start producing vehicles that will ease our addiction to oil??

    Discuss...

    renewable energy

    Its an idea whos time has come!!!
  2. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Oil, and the consumption of fossil fuels is not only one of the biggets causes of the current and future conflict. It is also one of the roots of the global environmental problem.

    pushing energy independance is crucial to winning the 'war on terror'. Its also crucial to keeping america in the forefront of the future of the global economy. Lets face it, China will be using more oil than the US in a few years. If studies on peak oil are true, we will be left with trillions in debt to China, and a dependance on a source of energy that they are gobbling up.

    There are only two kinds of people who benefit from the current energy policy. Oil Comapny executives, and their stockholders.

    not us, not america, and not mother earth.
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The biggest problem with our energy policy is that we don't even consider drilling our own. I find that somewhat dumb.

    As for ethanol, Brazil harvest its own fuel by using ethanol and flex cars. The problem with attempting the same here in the states is the climate. Ethanol doesn't work in colder temps. Outside of that, there is also the blockade called Big Oil.

    My hope for future fuels is hydrogen. Hydrogen technology is a breakthrough away from becoming a reality. I know that GM has sunk billions into hydrogen research with mixed results. I guess hydrogen has to be kept within a certain temperture window which has presented problems for some climates. Also, hydrogen they've been having problems with efficiency.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Read somewhere yesterday about the extraordinary profits of Exxon Mobil last quarter... huge numbers.

    The problem is that the US is addicted to cheap energy, not advocating the rise of prices.. but there is a need to increase R & D around alternatives and production thereof. Solar, Wind, Tides all offer hope to relieve some of the dependence.. But our biggest asset is coal, there is a need to figure out how to extract it and burn it in an ecologically efficient way. I think we are on a collision course if our federal policy has to do with continuing our dependence on the Mid East Oil.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    In other news, 1+1=2.

    Duh.

    We all know this. And we're all waiting for someone to do it. The problem is that even having an environmental nutjob as VP didn't get anything done so I don't hold out much hope.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssse, having an environmentalist as VP is a bad thing, and having oil men as VP and President are good things? Right now, today, yesterday, we could dent our dependence on oil. Do you think anyone in this administration would act on that?
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Dude, I didn't say this administation would act on it - I just don't want to hear crap about what they don't do when Gore had hit chance; and he swung and missed.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Someone tell me an administration in recent memmory that had an energy Plan that accomplished something?
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If a major party with enough votes to fillibuster any attempts to utilize our energy resources whil alternatives are developed, then we won't accomplish much in terms of energy policy.

    Ultimately the market and private innovation will solve these problems, in spite of the politicans.

    BTW in terms of biodeisel sawgrass would be the way to go in America, not corn.
  10. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Can't think of one. But, with the current conflicts isn't this the time for a true leader to step up and devise an energy plan? I find it a little far-fetched to put any blame on an enviromentalist that held the VP position, as if that gave him a chance to do something against all odds.
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Patsfan is right. Sawgrass is more efficient than corn. Problem is...there is no sawgrass lobby.

    Seems like the only time anything gets done is when a lobby forms around it. But they don't risk taking on Big Oil. Noone does.

    As far as having an environmental VP and not getting anything done, I'd argue that if Gore had his way it would have probably been done by now. There are many Republicans that have stood in the way over the years (ahem..Ted Stevens), but I would guess that his odds would have improved greatly had he not been rejected by activist judges in 2000 and had he had a willing Congress. I don't think Congress was too willing to shift prior to 9-11. But now we are all seeing that while Big Oil continues to nail record profits, the GOP stands fast and gives crazy tax cuts to big oil with gas men in the White House.

    What the red states in the south and midwest should understand is that their weak economies is a direct result of oilmen that have stood in the way of change to energy independance.

    Finally, where on earth did RW find that ethanol "doesn't work" in cold latitudes?? First Ive heard of it unless Im misunderstanding you.
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    In Brazil, poster child for ethanol fuel, FFVs are routine and the nationwide standard is E25, 25% ethanol. Fuels range up to E100, which is all ethanol. Ethanol there is made from sugar cane, which requires less work and fertilizer to grow than corn.

    "In Brazil, there's a much cheaper cost of labor, much looser environmental regulations, a whole litany of things" that make it easier and cheaper to produce and sell ethanol fuel, says Greene, the policy analyst. Because Brazil is warm, motorists there "don't have the cold-start problems we do with pure ethanol," he notes. The higher the alcohol concentration, the harder it can be to ignite the fuel in cold weather.


    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-02-01-ethanol_x.htm

    Activist judges in 2000?
  13. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I think Willie Nelson has problems with his bus in the cold climates.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If 1+1=2 then we would not be in Iraq... because the numbers do not add up in that equation. If 1+1=2 the answers would all be simple,however this and previous administrations make it more complicated than it has to be.
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ethanol/Diesel/BioDiesel, tend to 'thicken and not flow as well at Low Temps. In Brazil This isn't an issue, in parts of America during the winter it is an issue.

    A lot of MB Diesel owners use engine heaters for their vehicles so they won't be as hard to start during the winters, and they needed additives to allow the fuel to flow more easily.

    You are right about the sawgrass lobby, Vinod Khlosa spoke with Bush about the sawgrass alternative, Bush liked the idea AFAIK it was in the energy bill that was fillibustered in the Senate.

    In addition to yeild, sawgrass will grow very well in the Great Plains without the need for as much fertilizer ect, cheaper and more energy efficent to produce.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    jack in the box.
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some of us seem to have seen yhe problems before the gas price exploded....
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Are you giving yourself props PF13? Don't hurt yourself now!;)
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've been on the energy, drill/develop liquid alternatives for years and against ethanol when the enviros were touting it as the solution to all our problems.

    OTOH I predicted the pubbies would hold the house in 2006, screwed the pooch there ;)

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