Our defense is higher ranked than our offense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Dec 4, 2008.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Stat check - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

    For all the complaining about our defense over the past few weeks, I bet some will be surprised to see it is still ranked 12th in the league in terms of scoring (even with the offense and special teams causing 20 of the 33 points in the Steelers game on Sunday).

    Meanwhile, the inclination to ship Brady out of town and hand the franchise over to Cassel continues to be premature [and laughable], as the offense which was the highest scoring of all time continues to hover on either side of middle of the pack (though it reached as high as 10 last week).

    I think the bottom line is that we've seen our offense is still good enough to win if it can gain some consistency, and our defense, when healthy is good enough to win. So the only thing standing in our way of contending right now is the health of Adalius Thomas & Ty Warren. The declarations that our defense sucks are not backed up by the reality that we're still #12 in defensive scoring.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  2. it took 97 yards of offense for the steelers to generate 20 points plus a missed FG............

    anyone who blames the defense for last sunday's debacle is sadly mistaken
  3. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I'm starting to lean away from ranks when trying to judge anything. Look at last year... strip everything down to one drive at the end of the Super Bowl and the defense just barely couldn't make a stop. Did anyone expect that? No, but that doesn't matter because it's what happened. All you can say going into a moment like that is, how likely are we to get the stop we need when we need it.

    Currently, I do not feel confident in our chances. Some semblance of Colvin returning, plus a healthy Thomas and Warren, and I will feel a LOT better. But somehow, our defense being ranked 12th while showing a horrible efficiency on 3rd down and red zone isn't enough for me to feel comfortable in a big situation.

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    Our defense played good enough on Sunday to beat a great team. Yeah we're still bad on 3rd and long but the RZ performance was much better. Take away the turnovers deep in our territory and they only gave up 16 points, I'll take that anyday against a good offense and keep in mind 10 of those 16 points came off of big ST returns that gave Pitt great field position. Also, our offense did not sustain drives as well as they normally do and the defense was out there alot.

    First 3 Pitt red zone trips resulted in 13 points over a span of 2 and a half quarters, and Vrabel's pick set us up deep in Pittsburgh territory for 7 pts. As bad as they were against the Jets and Dolphins, they had us in position to WIN this game and the offense/ST failed.

    After this performance, plus the addition of Rosey and looming return of AD, I feel alot better about this defense.
  5. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Look, I'm not saying we're the Lions or anything, I'm just talking in terms of consistency and confidence. As currently constituted (without knowing what kind of player Colvin will be, and without knowing the date or status of Thomas' return), I have come to expect 3rd and 12 to be converted on us. It is a relief when it is not.

    I personally think we're going to improve, even without additions. I think there will be a gut check, and we're going to build some confidence against lesser offenses in Seattle and Oakland and carry that over into the Arizona game. But I'm just saying, I don't believe this is the 12th best defense, regardless of the numbers.
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    You give up over three TDs a game and you don't have a very good defense. All the rankings say is that it is a down year for defense and hence a good year for offense.

    If you look at all the years this defense has been a real issue for at least more than half the season (2002, 2005, and this year), they are only years the Pats gave up more than 18 points a game of the Brady era.

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    Overall, I must agree it's not the 12th best right now. But that inconsistency you're talking about is to be expected when you lose your best player on that side of the ball. The first 2 weeks without AD was pretty bad and you had to expect that coming right off the injury. But they looked much better Sunday and like you said they'll continue to improve. It's shaping out to be alot like 2005 where we got gashed alot up until December when the weak part of the schedule came up. That defense was dominant in the playoffs as well it was just ruined by a TO nightmare in Mile High.
  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Let's still remember that the NFL emphasis, for marketing purposes, is on scoring. The rules have been tweeked to help the offense get into the end zone. Defense is critical, but it's also handicapped and NE's is no different.
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I think this excuse has been overrated a bit. You can still do press coverage in the NFL (and several teams do it very well), you just need to be disciplined enough to disengage the receiver after 5 yards.

    The Pats gave up the fewest points in their team history in 2006 after the re-emphasis of the 5 yard chuck rule and other rules to help the offense. Both the Steelers and Titans are giving up under 15 points a game which is still as good as most top teams prior to all the rules changes. For example, in 1998 the team with the fewest points allowed per game were Miami and the Jets with 16.6 PPG each.

    I am not willing to use the excuse that the Pats' defensive woes have much of anything to do with the emphasis to help the offense. In fact, the biggest rule change from last year to this year (the force out rule) favors the defense quite a bit.
  10. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't care what the stats say. This defense will not make it to the superbowl. Granted, with all this teams been through this year, it would be an accomplishment just to make the playoffs. Bottom line, the team needs to improve in order to get anywhere in the playoffs. Consistancy in all three phases.

    I still want an explanation as to why they stopped pressuring lord favre, when clearly that was working earlier in the game. They were getting pressure, and then stopped. why? Do I need to start bashing mr DC? :mad:
  11. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    the defense played "good enough to beat a great team"?????

    yeah, a great High School team maybe.
  12. dtbrks

    dtbrks 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #87 Jersey

    redzone and third down D is among the worst in the NFL.

    Third-down defense
    44.7 percent (67 of 150)
    NFL rank: 29th

    Red-zone defense (based on TD percentage)
    64.1 percent (25 of 39)
    NFL rank: 30th
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I agree, to an extent. However, when the offense and special teams fumble the ball inside your own 30 and can't recover it, then the defense is going to be hard pressed to stop the opposing offense. Can it be done? Yes. But the odds are against them.
  14. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

    Stats like that didnt show the 3rd down defense, RZ, the things that have been a problem. Also, stats do not indicate that in the past 2 weeks, we've given up over 80 points.

    This defense still had trouble with Thomas in for one, so that one excuse just doesn't fly. Secondly, whos to say he or Warren, if they do return, will be effective enough? I'm sure this defense isn't the worst. I'm just as sure of that as I am saying we couldn't stop the Colts if they were driving for the game winning score.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    You are talking single TDs vs. season average though. Every team gives up a handful of TDs that were outside the defense's control like Slater's fumble that gave the Steelers first and goal last weekend. Over a 16 game season though, those gimme TDs are neglible in the average.
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    This is a good example of why, when I see someone trying to use stats to bolster an argument that flies in the face of intelligent observation, it usually strikes me as a sign of desperation.

    Even today we hear from some boasting that the Patriots 2006 offense was ranked #6 in the league, suggesting that we came close to making the Super Bowl because of some of the players on that offense, rather than in spite of them.

    If we let people like that control the team we wouldn't have seen the dramatic and necessary improvements to our offense in 2007.

    Stats sometimes contain helpful information, but far too often they can be misleading, a crutch for rationale and strategic thinking - or can even cripple one's independent thought process. One can usually find some stats to support their argument no matter how wrong their argument is - so just keep that in mind the next time you see someone throwing stats around that fly in the face of what you know to be true.

    Sometimes you'll see a rejoinder from someone that "stat's don't lie"

    No - stats don't lie, but there's plenty of idiots out there that misinterpret them or fail to see the big picture beyond the stats too!
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Of those 80 points you're talking about, how many came following turnovers?
  18. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Look at the Chargers game in week 6. The Patriots D was healthy...and they were smoked. Clearly, the Pats D has been effective vs weak teams, but vulnerable against more skilled teams.

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    Or a great pro team, like Pittsburgh. Say Moss doesn't drop the TD, and Slater doesn't muff that kick. We're up 17-13 midway through the 3rd and we have the ball. The defense wasn't overpowering but they were doing their part, without AD and Warren at that. They got no help at all from offense or ST, or we'd be in the driver's seat for a 1st round bye.
  20. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

    This is ridiculous. How can anybody think this defense is better than our offense? Our offense has scored way more than our defense has.
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