Our Cuts Being Picked Up By Other Teams?

[mgteich]

1) There will be about 750 players cut in the last ten days before Game One.

2) I agree that a few of our veteran cuts might be picked up for someone's 53-man roster. As Ochmed indicated, the OL is the best example of this possibility. Any of the following could be snapped up if we cut them: Hochstein, Johnson, Britt, Callaghan and even Yates. Obviously, I am not even considering the eight that I consider locks, although any of them would also be snapped up. I suppose someone might want Spann, Richardson or one our special teamers if they were cut (Slater, Ventrone, Ciurciu, Williams, Aiken, Redd, Alexander).

3) HOWEVER, I find it unlikely that a team having chosen its 53 man squad would want one of our 5th round or later 2009 draftees, although this does happen to one or two a year. Perhaps Bussey and Ingram MIGHT be picked up, but I doubt it.

4) ROOKIE UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS are very, very unlikely to picked up for someone else's 53 man roster, although this could happen to a QB or punter. For example, if Hoyer is great in preseason, someone might pick him up.

5) FINALLY, if we cut someone, he might want to play on someone else's Practice Squad instead of that of the patriots. There are many considerations for a player in that situation.

6) My bottom line is that if a player is one of our best 53 players, he will make the 53 man squad. If not, he may make the Practive Squad, but I don't really care much. After all, we don't have any special right to sign our Practice Squad players to our 53-man squad. Any team can do that. Of the late rounders and UDFA's, barring a couple of injuries, I only expect Hoyer and Ingam to have much chance of making our 53 man roster.

 

[patchick]

Makes sense. I'd add DL to the most-likely-to-be-picked-up list. E.g. if LeKevin is the odd man out, I fully expect to seem him on another roster.

As for the late picks and UDFAs, it all depends on how they show in camp. I'd bet that Guyton would have been picked up last year if the Pats hadn't kept him, for instance.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

That's a given. Dogs love to wait for the scraps from the master's table.

Moreover, there are more 3-4 teams than in recent memory. Add to the fact that the Parcells/BB coaching tree has branched out, there will be an even bigger demand for our castoffs.

 

[BradyManny]

1) There will be about 750 players cut in the last ten days before Game One.

I'm always nervous about losing players that I'd like to keep in the pipeline - but your point has proven true over the years, very rarely are these bubble players snapped up, particularly at that time of the season. So cutting a guy like Bussey and hoping he lands on the PS may not be a risky move.

 

[cstjohn17]

Hey MG, I have been out of touch for a while but meanwhile you have been very prolific. Good topics as usual.

Every year the Pats will 'lose' practice squad types, it use to concern me but now I could care less. I can hardly think of any late camp cut that has even had a minor impact in the NFL. The names I can think of are Garret Mills, Justin Rogers, Chad Jackson, etc.

The 54th person on the Patriots roster may be as good as the 50th person on another roster but in the end they usually don't have any impact and I think it is only a small consideration on who gets cut. One thing the Patriots do very well is keep the 53 that help them win games now, that could be a rookie or it could be a veteran. A lot of other teams keep players because of 'potential', these teams are often referred to as 'up and coming'. They stay up and coming for 3 years and then the coach gets fired. The Patriots have it right, win games now, bottom of the roster players are highly replaceable, focus on the quality of the front-end.

 

[patchick]

Every year the Pats will 'lose' practice squad types, it use to concern me but now I could care less. I can hardly think of any late camp cut that has even had a minor impact in the NFL. The names I can think of are Garret Mills, Justin Rogers, Chad Jackson, etc.

That's a good dose of perspective. I think you most often find exceptions to this rule among specialists, where the team can't carry an extra developmental guy no matter how promising. Robbie Gould is a past example, Ingram a possibility this year.

BTW, if you're looking league-wide for guys cut by their initial team who ended up making an impact, the Pats' #83 is always a fine example.

 

[dryheat44]

That's a good dose of perspective. I think you most often find exceptions to this rule among specialists, where the team can't carry an extra developmental guy no matter how promising. Robbie Gould is a past example, Ingram a possibility this year.

BTW, if you're looking league-wide for guys cut by their initial team who ended up making an impact, the Pats' #83 is always a fine example.

Besides Gould, Phil Dawson was camp "competition" for Vinatieri, and Owen Pochman re-surfaces from time to time. It seems Belichick has a good eye for kickers, of all positions.

 

[captain stone]

Regarding the 5th-rounders & UDFAs:

If everybody stays healthy, then I just don't see the team carrying 3 rookie OLmen, esp. 3 backups. If Bussey has a future here, then it will likely begin on the PS. I therefore don't understand why he was drafted at 170, or at all. He should easily pass waivers to the PS; and if he doesn't, so what?

Ingram has a legit shot, no doubt about it. I still don't undestand why Lonie Paxton wasn't re-signed, though; is the diff. in salary cap hit really that significant? He might not pass waivers, dep. on how many teams have injured/lousy LSers.

Myron Pryor is #9 out of 10 on my DL depth chart, ahead of only Titus Adams (and behind 7th-rounder Darryl Richard, IMHO). Because the team will carry 7 DLmen at most, he has to hope that at least 2 of them get injured. At 6'-1/2", he looks like a square peg in a round hole full of DLmen 6'-3" or taller. I would not have drafted him at all, not only because of his lack of fit here, but also because of the selection of Ron Brace the day before. A 4-3 defense might claim him before he passes waivers, but only if he shows enough hustle during TC.

The aforementioned Richard has a chance here, not because of his very limited physical ability, but because of his hustle & smarts. He would be only the #7 DLman here, at least this year, but only if he outplays LeKevin Smith. If he can't, then he should easily pass waivers on his way to the PS.

There were many more higher-ranked players ahead of Julian Edelman, incl. WR Kevin Ogletree, OLman Gerald Cadogan, and most esp. RB Rashad Jennings. One of the reasons why Edelman may have been chosen instead is because at least a couple of teams considered him a high priority free agent, and Bill decided that he would not have been able to sign him ahead of those teams, esp. da Bears. He would be a perfect PS candidate, except that he may not make it there if he shows versatility & production in the WR/Returner/Wildcat QB role.

Brian Hoyer, if he clearly outplays Gutierrez, might have to be kept on the 53 because of the fear of losing him to a team looking for a #3 QB to develop behind its #1 & its vet #2. If he's only OK, then his chances of reaching the PS increases significantly.

I would really love it if Antonio Appleby could claim one of the backup LB spots. Those clearly ahead of him are: Mayo, Adalius, Bruschi, Crable, Woods, Guyton & Lenon. Appleby must first make his mark on STs, so he must therefore outplay both, or at least one of, Alexander & Ciurciu, dep. on how many LBs (9 or 10) are kept. TBC & Redd might be in a separate battle for the #4 OLB spot, though I can see both making the 53 if they both play well enough, and Bill decides to keep 10 LBs. I really, really, really don't want to see Eric Effin Alexander in a Patriots uniform on Opening Day. And my cousin Vinnie Ciurciu is just a younger Larry Izzo, although I believe that he has taken snaps at FB while playing for Carolina. I'd rather have him than Alexander, naturally, but I'd rather have a younger, bigger Antonio Appleby than either of them. Then again, I thought the same thoughts for Freddie Roach in 2006.

 

[State]

Just about ANY d-linemen we release are gone, judging from the depth we have there.

A LeKevin Smith has a chance to play for Tennessee, but not so much with NE.

My Detroit Lions friends are waiting with bated breath for our waiver wire players. It's sort of a second draft for them.

 

[State]

There were many more higher-ranked players ahead of Julian Edelman, incl. WR Kevin Ogletree, OLman Gerald Cadogan, and most esp. RB Rashad Jennings.

That's an excellent point. One of the mysteries of this year's draft was that Gerald Cadogan, part of the very excellent Penn State O-line, went undrafted. That's a head-scratcher.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That's an excellent point. One of the mysteries of this year's draft was that Gerald Cadogan, part of the very excellent Penn State O-line, went undrafted. That's a head-scratcher.

The strength of the Penn State line was in its Guards, Ohrnberger and and A Q Shipley. Cardogan had the template size but not the playing talent.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Besides Gould, Phil Dawson was camp "competition" for Vinatieri, and Owen Pochman re-surfaces from time to time. It seems Belichick has a good eye for kickers, of all positions.

Well, except for Punters... But much like 2007, I don't expect the 2009 version of the Pats to punt very much.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Well, except for Punters... But much like 2007, I don't expect the 2009 version of the Pats to punt very much.

It would thrill me no end if they listed Chris Hanson's position as "Holder."

 

[State]

The strength of the Penn State line was in its Guards, Ohrnberger and and A Q Shipley. Cardogan had the template size but not the playing talent.

I don't disagree with you. I've noted before that the drafting of A.Q. Shipley, a special player who plays above what his physical attributes are and will play in the NFL, is one of the biggest steals in this draft.

I think he was taken very late, the seventh round.

But, come on, the whole line was effective. I focused in on them for at least three games last year. Except for the Rose Bowl game, the whole unit dominated their opposition.

Only Alabama's was better, IMO, and that's only because of its premier LT.

Even in that Pasadena game, Shipley had some memorable pancake blocks. Once his feet were perpendicular to the ground as his smashed opponent (Brian Cushing?) looked like a rag doll beneath his 5'11" 300 bulk.

(Edit: Rick Gosselin did list Gerald Cardogan as player #86 in his top 100. So I think his play is better than you indicate.)

 

[State]

One of the toughest cuts will involve special teams players.

If Vinnie Ciurciu gets cut, a proven ST monster, and we keep the lackluster Paris Lenon, whom I doubt will put in the same effort at ST...well, count me as very disappointed.

I see it coming, because we need the insurance of Lenon, a proven if mediocre NFL starter, but I not happy about it.

Same thing with Matthew Slater. I really think he can break out into an elite ST player.

 

[Jimke]

One of the toughest cuts will involve special teams players.

If Vinnie Ciurciu gets cut, a proven ST monster, and we keep the lackluster Paris Lenon, whom I doubt will put in the same effort at ST...well, count me as very disappointed.

I see it coming, because we need the insurance of Lenon, a proven if mediocre NFL starter, but I not happy about it.

Same thing with Matthew Slater. I really think he can break out into an elite ST player.

Lenon is supposed to be a good special teams player.

 

[Gunnails]

That's a given. Dogs love to wait for the scraps from the master's table.
Moreover, there are more 3-4 teams than in recent memory. Add to the fact that the Parcells/BB coaching tree has branched out, there will be an even bigger demand for our castoffs.

==================================================

Titus Adams and Chriss Baker where both Jets that had been cut, now with the Pats. Not saying I consider the Pats, dogs waiting for scraps, it's just the way of the NFL.

 

[captain stone]

One of the toughest cuts will involve special teams players.

If Vinnie Ciurciu gets cut, a proven ST monster, and we keep the lackluster Paris Lenon, whom I doubt will put in the same effort at ST...well, count me as very disappointed.

I see it coming, because we need the insurance of Lenon, a proven if mediocre NFL starter, but I not happy about it.

Same thing with Matthew Slater. I really think he can break out into an elite ST player.

I respectfully disagree; I'd rather have Lenon, who has proven that he can play a mediocre at worst NFL LB, instead of Ciurciu, who has proven that he cannot play even a mediocre at best NFL LB. I am not as concerned about the effort that Lenon would give on STs; he has a 1-year contract, so he prob. knows that he needs to give max effort at all times.

I also disagree about Slater; he was a bad pick last year, and looks like even a worse pick this year.

 

[Jimke]

I respectfully disagree; I'd rather have Lenon, who has proven that he can play a mediocre at worst NFL LB, instead of Ciurciu, who has proven that he cannot play even a mediocre at best NFL LB. I am not as concerned about the effort that Lenon would give on STs; he has a 1-year contract, so he prob. knows that he needs to give max effort at all times.

I also disagree about Slater; he was a bad pick last year, and looks like even a worse pick this year.

According to one of Lenon's coaches, he loves to play special teams.

The player the Patriots were hoping for in the 5th round was Zack

Bowman from Nebraska, not Slater. If Maroney is used for kickoff

returns, there is little opportunity for Slater.