Our $41M Secondary

[Deus Irae]

I think a lot of people had the same feeling about McCourty after his second year that we're seeing with Ryan now.

Harmon? Nice pick against Baltimore to seal the deal.

If you're a troll, you're a determined one. If you're not a troll, it's too bad because your Superbowl crack about a team that just won the Superbowl would be less dumb coming from a troll than from someone who is actually, you know, a fan of the team.

McCourty and Ryan are both zone CBs who struggle with turn and chase, and Ryan struggles with man coverage in general. Ryan, would probably be a better safety than a corner, just like McCourty. The difference is that Ryan's nowhere near as good as McCourty as an overall player, and the Patriots aren't as desperate for safety help today as they were back when they switched McCourty over. IF Dennard's issues were mostly injury related, and/or he has a bounce back season, Ryan could easily fall to CB5 even before additional competition is brought in.

 

[patman52]

To not pay a top player what is reasonable according to the market, just because that would give him a higher AAV than our QB is the wrong way to look at it, especially when the only reason he would get higher AAV than Brady, is because Brady has taken a below market deal. If anything that allows us to pay players like Revis what their market value is, and get them on the team.

Why is it wrong to look that yous hould not pay a 30 YO Revis more than 14 mill a year? Regardless of what Brady is getting. Sherman is getting 40X wilson's money.

Revis is not the best player on the team, Brady is. I just don't think any player should be paid more than Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

... I just don't think any player should be paid more than Brady.

That would make sense if Brady were making the sort of dollars that one would expect of an elite QB. Since he's not, and since he'll be making less than top players at several positions, that approach is one that's destined for failure.

 

[Marinlik]

Why is it wrong to look that yous hould not pay a 30 YO Revis more than 14 mill a year? Regardless of what Brady is getting. Sherman is getting 40X wilson's money.

Revis is not the best player on the team, Brady is. I just don't think any player should be paid more than Brady.

Well if Brady had a normal QB market deal, then sure no one should get payed more. Because the only position worth paying $20M for(a QB top market deal) is QBs. But to let go of a player and not pay the salary they want, not for what they are worth, but because they would have a higher salary then our QB who has taken a below market deal(in part because he has the low income in his household anyway) is in my mind lousy reasoning. Not wanting to pay him more than Brady is emotional reasoning, not logical reasoning. Teams that go for emotional reasoning instead of logical reasong in contract negotiations will find themself on the loosing end of contracts.

The reasoning should be: Is Revis worth a top CB deal?(I think yes), and is what a top CB adds to our defense worth what a top CB deal costs (around $14m, and I think yes)? That's the logical reasoning, and something you can definitely argue more and against.


You can't force other players to take below market deals, just because your QB does, when he can do so because his wife makes much more than him.

 

[patman52]

Well if Brady had a normal QB market deal, then sure no one should get payed more. Because the only position worth paying $20M for(a QB top market deal) is QBs. But to let go of a player and not pay the salary they want, not for what they are worth, but because they would have a higher salary then our QB who has taken a below market deal(in part because he has the low income in his household anyway) is in my mind lousy reasoning. Not wanting to pay him more than Brady is emotional reasoning, not logical reasoning. Teams that go for emotional reasoning instead of logical reasong in contract negotiations will find themself on the loosing end of contracts.

The reasoning should be: Is Revis worth a top CB deal?(I think yes), and is what a top CB adds to our defense worth what a top CB deal costs (around $14m, and I think yes)? That's the logical reasoning, and something you can definitely argue more and against.


You can't force other players to take below market deals, just because your QB does, when he can do so because his wife makes much more than him.

Force is a bad work to use. I would want a 30 year old Revis for 12 mill a year for the next 4 years, I am scared of paying a 33 year old 15mill, and you know he is going to have the deal structured in his favor no matter the $$$$. I know Woodson, Green and Bailey played well in thier early 30s, Sanders, Haynes, and others did not.

 

[patman52]

That would make sense if Brady were making the sort of dollars that one would expect of an elite QB. Since he's not, and since he'll be making less than top players at several positions, that approach is one that's destined for failure.

Failure how? That you can not sign one of a 1/2 dozen non qbs that make over 14mill, that is a failure?

 

[Marinlik]

Force is a bad work to use. I would want a 30 year old Revis for 12 mill a year for the next 4 years, I am scared of paying a 33 year old 15mill, and you know he is going to have the deal structured in his favor no matter the $$$$. I know Woodson, Green and Bailey played well in thier early 30s, Sanders, Haynes, and others did not.

As I said, that's definitely a valid argument. But not paying someone simply because they would get more money than someone else at a different position when that player has such a low salary for non football reasons, isn't a valid argument.

 

[Deus Irae]

Failure how? That you can not sign one of a 1/2 dozen non qbs that make over 14mill, that is a failure?

Brady's not making $14m. Brady's making $8m this y4ear, $9m next year, and $10m in 2017.

 

[Marinlik]

Brady's not making $14m. Brady's making $8m this y4ear, $9m next year, and $10m in 2017.

He makes $12M in AAV. Can't count out the large signing bonus when talking about the average pay of a players deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

He makes $12M in AAV. Can't count out the large signing bonus when talking about the average pay of a players deal.

I'd rather use the straightforward number you're using, but...


Given that the bonus covered for the earlier salaries of $2m, $1m and $950,000, and that the poster I'd responded to was going with a $14m number, and was not taking either the rising cap (and, therefore, salaries) or Brady's decision to take a smaller deal into account...

Sure we can.

 

[supafly]

Failure how? That you can not sign one of a 1/2 dozen non qbs that make over 14mill, that is a failure?

I think the argument is that examining the approach that no one should make more money than Brady is one that is set up to fail. After all, he took a deal that was way below what he was worth, and well below the market value for franchise QBs with multiple SB victories.

Now, had Brady been making 20+ million dollars, then the approach that you suggested may be more valid. The bottom line is that the team is attempting to retain one of the top 1-2 CBs in the game on the other side of the ball, so his salary is going to be in line with the market value of recent pacts such as Sherman, Peterson, etc.

In other words, he isn't going to choose to take the "hometown discount" that Tom Brady did. That shouldn't prevent us from signing players like him in the future, simply b/c Tom Brady chose to take less money.

 

[patman52]

I'd rather use the straightforward number you're using, but...


Given that the bonus covered for the earlier salaries of $2m, $1m and $950,000, and that the poster I'd responded to was going with a $14m number, and was not taking either the rising cap (and, therefore, salaries) or Brady's decision to take a smaller deal into account...

Sure we can.

Well i am just going by Brady's 2015 cap hit of 14mill per spotrac. Whether brady got it from a prior bonus or a 1 year salary, it is 14mill. I don't think a 30 year old Revis should be paid more on a 4 year deal. If Brady's total comp was 8 mill and there was/is 75 players getting that or more than yes a position player should be paid more. But at 14 mill per, there are only 1/2 dozen guys that are not qbs that get that, and I don't want the pats to make revis the next one.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well i am just going by Brady's 2015 cap hit of 14mill per spotrac. Whether brady got it from a prior bonus or a 1 year salary, it is 14mill. I don't think a 30 year old Revis should be paid more on a 4 year deal. If Brady's total comp was 8 mill and there was/is 75 players getting that or more than yes a position player should be paid more. But at 14 mill per, there are only 1/2 dozen guys that are not qbs that get that, and I don't want the pats to make revis the next one.

I know what you were thinking. It's just terrible logic, for the reasons previously stated.

 

[patman52]

I know what you were thinking. It's just terrible logic, for the reasons previously stated.

Well, if by logic you mean that your ok with 4 years and 14 mill per, fine. I just don't.

 

[IndianPat]

Revis, Browner and McCourty in the backfield is legendary. We have had them for a year and the result is a SB win. Pay the beast, have a legendary backfield matched alongside a legendary QB and a legendary coach for 3 more years. That's how a consistently good dynasty becomes a legendary dynasty . Giving away Revis is what losers like Jets and the Bucs do. A winner never gives away a legendary player at his prime.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, if by logic you mean that your ok with 4 years and 14 mill per, fine. I just don't.

No, in this particular case, I mean you can't hold a team hostage because, multiple years in the past, one player took a below market contract. That's what you were arguing earlier.

Reality: Top paid QBs are getting $17m -$20m right now. Brady opting to accept less than that does not somehow mean that everyone, or anyone, else on the Patriots needs to do the same.

 

[Ivan]

HOF caliber players in the prime of their careers are a rare commodity, pay the man.

 

[Oswlek]

I find it odd how many people want to ditch Ryan. Especially when the same things were being said about Samuel after his lousy 2005 and McCourty heading into the 2012 season.

It's not like Logan is costing the team $4mm a year or anything. There is plenty of time for him to demonstrate 2013 was closer to his true level of play.

 

[Triumph]

Revis, Browner and McCourty in the backfield is legendary. We have had them for a year and the result is a SB win. Pay the beast, have a legendary backfield matched alongside a legendary QB and a legendary coach for 3 more years. That's how a consistently good dynasty becomes a legendary dynasty . Giving away Revis is what losers like Jets and the Bucs do. A winner never gives away a legendary player at his prime.

Revis is the 2nd best player on the team. Like Brady, Revis makes those around him better.

 

[patman52]

No, in this particular case, I mean you can't hold a team hostage because, multiple years in the past, one player took a below market contract. That's what you were arguing earlier.

Reality: Top paid QBs are getting $17m -$20m right now. Brady opting to accept less than that does not somehow mean that everyone, or anyone, else on the Patriots needs to do the same.

I am not saying he has too, but the best player on the team took one, I would want the 3rd best to do so also. If not, I am ok with him leaving. One slight sprain and you have 10% of your team value sitting on the bench. Corners and WR just a little ding and their performance suffers greatly compared to most other positions.