OTish - The Good 'ol, bad 'ol days

[Mike the Brit]

Not so low....but still a hell of a deal:


9/11/88 Boston businessmen Robert Kraft and Steve Karp are the new owners of Sullivan Stadium and landlords of the Patriots.
In US Bankruptcy Court in Boston yesterday, Chief Justice James N. Gabriel found the $25 million bid made by Kraft's and Karp's group, K-Corp., to be more valuable than the $19.85 million in cash and waiver of $9.9 million in claims proposed by KMS-Patriots, the company formed by new Patriots owner Victor Kiam and minority owners Fran Murray and Billy Sullivan.

I vaguely remember reading about this and thinking: just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, the team sets a new low in dysfunctionality -- now we'll have two sets of creeps pulling in different directions.

Who'd have guessed that Mr Kraft would turn out to be a passionate fan, a sound businessman and a person of great integrity? It's a miracle!

 

[TrueBeliever]

Who'd have guessed that Mr Kraft would turn out to be a passionate fan, a sound businessman and a person of great integrity? It's a miracle!

That's one of the reasons I love being a Pats fan. So many teams today are owned by businessmen who have no problem threatening to move to a different city; the Pats are owned by a guy who bought them to make sure that wouldn't happen. Granted there are some other teams with owners like that (the Seahawks, for one), but even then how many of them were lifelong season ticket holders?

I also like to point that out to Packer fans who think they are all dat and a bag o' chips just because the team is "owned by the fans"... I say the Pats are owned by a lifelong season ticket holder who could have made a ton of money letting them move but held on, while the Packers were borderline threatening to move 10 years ago when extorting money from this state.

One thing I've learned in life is that no matter how bad it seems, if you can get through it it will get better. So I salute all of you who suffered through those awful early seasons. :rocker: Besides, when I was a kid in the early '80s I was a Packer fan, I know what it's like to root for a team with a snowball's chance in hell!

 

[TrueBeliever]

You've never been drinking in Mobil, Al. then. I have. And I'm scarred to this day.

"When I was in Mobile, Alabama, I was swimming in the motel pool one day when one of the local Mobilians came up and asked me, 'How's the water?' I'm a comedian, so I made a joke and said, 'It's wet', ha ha. So then the guy looked all confused and said, 'I didn't know it had even been raining.'"

- the late, great Dennis Wolfberg

 

[fair catch fryar]

Local high school football superpower Brockton in the '80s produced an outstanding WR named Greg McMurtury. He went to Michigan and was given uniform #1 as he was expected to be the next Anthony Carter there. He didn't light up the Big 10 by any stretch, but did okay for himself. During those dark years you mentioned, McMurtury ended up on his hometown Pats. During the '91 season, the Pats hosted the then-powerhouse Warren Moon Oilers. In a surprisingly good game, the Pats came from behind to win late when Hugh Millen found McMurtury on a slant, who immediately cut outside after the catch and completely turned the CB inside out on the move. McMurtury raced to the endzone in what was one of the best wins of that era.

With not much to cheer for during those years, it was good to see a local kid get a moment in the sun. Those moments were few.

Regards,
Chris

The one and only time I ever visited the old house. I went down with a bunch of buddies from college and needless to say we weren't sober and I can remember a large Ford 1-ton leaving after the game with Texas plates, dual tires and exhaust and about 8 cowboy hats crushed inside of it and thinking what a long, ****ty ride they had to get home.

 

[Patjew]

I remember the 1992 season finale against Miami. Coldest damn game I've ever been to. I was in college then, up from DC for winter break. Went to the game with some high school buddies, bought cheap tickets from a scalper in the parking lot and was hammered by 10 AM. I didn't know how to dress for the cold back then and I was suffering until I got drunk enough to not care anymore. Miami was good that year but the 2-14 Pats made a game out of it. In the 4th quarter it looked like the Pats could pull it out and the fans (all 48 of us) were going nuts. Of course, the Pats blew it in the end and lost 13-16. However, I didn't get to see the end because after sneaking down to watch the game from the 10th row, 50 yard line, my knuckleheaded friends decided to pick a fight with some Miami fans. So we had a nice little rumble with those ****s (I think I got some good shots in), one of whom snuck in a nice shot on my buddy (who had been the best high school RB in RI in 1991 and was tough as nails) and bashed his friggin' mouth open. So before getting arrested we ran out of there and for some stupid reason drove all the way to Kent County hospital in Warwick to get him stitched up. I guess I sobered up in the ER waiting for that moron to get finished being sewed up.

That was the last game I got to go to for years. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that I remember all of that very fondly.

 

[jmt57]

Regarding the "bad old days": when an organization is being run as poorly as the Pats were at that time, what is the best way for fans to react?

On one hand there are some that are of the opinion that fans should be loyal through thick and thin, and always support the team regardless; they accuse others that don't of being fair weather fans, and band wagon fans.

Others counter that to continue showing up sends a message to ownership that they don't need to take the time, effort, and money to improve the team; that fans will buy the product regardless of the quality of play on the field.

The loyal fans would then counter that staying away from the stadium due to the inferior product could result in a worse fate: the team moves away, as what almost happened to the Pats.

So here's my question: is it ever okay to send a message to ownership that you are fed up with what they and the team are doing by not attending games? And if so, how bad must the team be, and for how long? Did the state of the Pats, both on and off the field in '90 and '92 make it okay for fans to stay away and not support the team by attending games? Or was four straight losing seasons too short a time for fans to bail, despite the off-field incidents and ineptitude of the ownership and management?

 

[Mike the Brit]

So here's my question: is it ever okay to send a message to ownership that you are fed up with what they and the team are doing by not attending games? And if so, how bad must the team be, and for how long? Did the state of the Pats, both on and off the field in '90 and '92 make it okay for fans to stay away and not support the team by attending games? Or was four straight losing seasons too short a time for fans to bail, despite the off-field incidents and ineptitude of the ownership and management?

And here's my simple answer.

Sports are FUN. If you're not enjoying it, don't go. You don't owe it to anyone. On the other hand, if you only enjoy sports when your team is winning, you're missing a lot. And (thinking back to last season) if you boo your team just because they are leaking touchdowns, then you are spoiled and have an excessive sense of entitlement.

I've no problem trying to give a message to the ownership (Detroit fans with their Millen Out or Man U and the green and yellow scarves). How often do they take it, though?

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I remember the 1992 season finale against Miami. Coldest damn game I've ever been to. I was in college then, up from DC for winter break. Went to the game with some high school buddies, bought cheap tickets from a scalper in the parking lot and was hammered by 10 AM. I didn't know how to dress for the cold back then and I was suffering until I got drunk enough to not care anymore. Miami was good that year but the 2-14 Pats made a game out of it. In the 4th quarter it looked like the Pats could pull it out and the fans (all 48 of us) were going nuts. Of course, the Pats blew it in the end and lost 13-16. However, I didn't get to see the end because after sneaking down to watch the game from the 10th row, 50 yard line, my knuckleheaded friends decided to pick a fight with some Miami fans. So we had a nice little rumble with those ****s (I think I got some good shots in), one of whom snuck in a nice shot on my buddy (who had been the best high school RB in RI in 1991 and was tough as nails) and bashed his friggin' mouth open. So before getting arrested we ran out of there and for some stupid reason drove all the way to Kent County hospital in Warwick to get him stitched up. I guess I sobered up in the ER waiting for that moron to get finished being sewed up.

That was the last game I got to go to for years. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that I remember all of that very fondly.

Good story. Was that the Lockwood(?) game? Unknown who rushed for something like 120 yards for the Pats that day?

Regards,
Chris

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I remember the 2009 season where we ONLY made the wild card round. Hard times... I mean, the division wasn't clinched until like week 15 or 16! I don't know how I made it through that

 

[Deus Irae]

"When I was in Mobile, Alabama, I was swimming in the motel pool one day when one of the local Mobilians came up and asked me, 'How's the water?' I'm a comedian, so I made a joke and said, 'It's wet', ha ha. So then the guy looked all confused and said, 'I didn't know it had even been raining.'"

- the late, great Dennis Wolfberg

I loved his bit about going to the doctor for a checkup. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get a copy of his comedy special.

 

[Patjew]

Good story. Was that the Lockwood(?) game? Unknown who rushed for something like 120 yards for the Pats that day?

Regards,
Chris

I'm proud and ashamed to say that I remember almost no details from what happened on the field that day. I even had to look up the score.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Regarding the "bad old days": when an organization is being run as poorly as the Pats were at that time, what is the best way for fans to react?

On one hand there are some that are of the opinion that fans should be loyal through thick and thin, and always support the team regardless; they accuse others that don't of being fair weather fans, and band wagon fans.

Others counter that to continue showing up sends a message to ownership that they don't need to take the time, effort, and money to improve the team; that fans will buy the product regardless of the quality of play on the field.

The loyal fans would then counter that staying away from the stadium due to the inferior product could result in a worse fate: the team moves away, as what almost happened to the Pats.

So here's my question: is it ever okay to send a message to ownership that you are fed up with what they and the team are doing by not attending games? And if so, how bad must the team be, and for how long? Did the state of the Pats, both on and off the field in '90 and '92 make it okay for fans to stay away and not support the team by attending games? Or was four straight losing seasons too short a time for fans to bail, despite the off-field incidents and ineptitude of the ownership and management?

You know, these are very good points. Again, I have to bring up the stupid Packer fans, who talk about "blah blah every game at Lambeau Field is sold out for the last 60 years, back in 1991 the Pats were lucky to get 20,000 fans at a game." It could be argued that maybe we have better things to do with our time than watch our team get the crap beat out of it. Unlike in 90% of Wisconsin.

Seriously though, when do you say it just ain't worth it to even go? It's one thing to be a total fairweather fan who only goes when the team is a perennial Super Bowl contender and winning most games by 42-10. I generally like to know that my team can at least put up a good show of it when I go to a game. Like when the wife and I went to the Pats-Chargers game in 2005 as part of our honeymoon, thinking that would be a good game. It was a lousy game, and not in the Pats' favor. Considering they were back-to-back league champs, they looked like they hardly belonged on the same field as the Bolts that day. If the Pats were playing like that most games, I don't think we would have been as eager to fit that game into our honeymoon plans.

Some years back I read an editorial, maybe in Sports Illustrated, saying that the Chicago Cubs were destined to be one of the worst franchises in base-ball because so much of their fan base just keeps showing up to games because they love Wrigley Field. The writer even went so far as to argue that the Cubs should get a new ballpark to force themselves to get better. That's a bit extreme, but I can see why it makes sense. If your fans are going to keep coming every year, and your main concern is profit, what's to motivate you to make the team any better? Look at the Bengals, fer cryin' out loud. As long as Mike Brown is making enough money every year, he could care less that his team is a perennial doormat.

 

[Mike the Brit]

If your fans are going to keep coming every year, and your main concern is profit, what's to motivate you to make the team any better? Look at the Bengals, fer cryin' out loud. As long as Mike Brown is making enough money every year, he could care less that his team is a perennial doormat.

You'd think so. Revenue sharing is guaranteed money -- just show up for work, loaf on the job, get paid. But it doesn't work that way completely. Just look at the perennial doormat Saints -- and the Cardinals made the Superbowl the year before. Says a lot for the pride and ambition of the coaches.

 

[lillestroom]

You'd think so. Revenue sharing is guaranteed money -- just show up for work, loaf on the job, get paid. But it doesn't work that way completely. Just look at the perennial doormat Saints -- and the Cardinals made the Superbowl the year before. Says a lot for the pride and ambition of the coaches.

People say how bad the Pats were when they made the bowl first time round.

But geez... the Cardinals are an average team. Warner was on his last legs, Fitzy is a great WR and they've never had a ground game. The D has been completely average.