OT: Yahoo Sports' Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spygate

[Absurdly Metro]

Link

I found this interesting in that it brings to light a delicious moral dilemma for us Patriot's fans...

“[Spygate] was limited,” said a high-ranking NFC executive. “That’s something where – that information or competitive edge or whatever you want to call it, was limited to one team gaining an advantage over another team. But that’s just two teams. … We all have first-round picks – 32 teams have first-round picks.

“It’s hard to prove if it did happen. But if it did, it’s cheating the whole draft. You shouldn’t even be thinking about someone else’s pick. When the draft is over, that’s their deal and you have your own [selections] to worry about. It’s none of your business what is happening in someone else’s [negotiations]. If that [tampering with draft picks] flies, we might as well just make all the college players free agents.”

Question #1: IF this tampering charge proves to be true, and NFL owners consider it to be worse than Spygate, what do you think should be the penalty for such malfeasance?

The crux of the 49ers’ tampering charge still hasn’t been fleshed out publicly. But NFL security officials have already been tasked with the investigation, and three league sources told Yahoo! Sports the 49ers believe the Jets were in contact with Crabtree’s agent, Eugene Parker, to talk about the former Texas Tech wideout after he had already been selected in the draft...

...While it’s not known if San Francisco is alleging negotiations took place between Parker and the Jets, it’s worth noting that Deion Sanders, a former Parker client and self-described occasional “counselor” to Crabtree, insinuated in an interview with the NFL Network that Crabtree believes he can get “$40 million” from an NFL team.

Said Sanders in that interview, “Why would you settle for $20 million [from San Francisco] when you feel like you can get $40 million? That’s the problem.”

Sanders also reiterated that Crabtree would be willing to re-enter the 2010 draft, further fueling speculation the rookie has some kind of salary guarantee from another team. Theoretically, Crabtree could secure the contract he desires from another NFL team and then hold out the entire season, forcing the 49ers to eventually trade his rights – ideally to the team which has already hammered out the contract he desires...

...Barring the discovery of some significant evidence, the tampering charge will be difficult to prove. Many NFL front-office executives consider tampering to be a consistent league problem, whether it’s occurring with potential free agents or disgruntled stars looking for an exit strategy from a franchise. And it’s not uncommon for executives who have been long removed from the NFL to admit to some form of tampering (though they typically don’t name specific incidents).

Interestingly, former NFL executive Michael Lombardi told Showtime’s “Inside the NFL” this week that he took part in tampering during the course of his NFL career, which included stints in the front offices of the Cleveland Browns and Oakland Raiders.

“It’s very difficult to prove,” Lombardi said. “Trust me, I’ve been a tamperer. I’ve been in the NFL for over 20 years, so I have tampered my fair share of times.”

But rarely does a charge involve one team accusing another of undermining its negotiations with a draft pick. And that’s what makes the latest charge a hot-button issue in other league corners.

Question #2: SO, IF the Jesters are found guilty of this tampering charge BUT it is also found to be a widespread practice around the NFL (much like videotaping was where you had several coaches--including Jimmy Johnson-- admitting as such), would you, as a Patriots fan, embrace the obvious double standard and clamor for the max penalty to be levied against the Jets anyway or would you remain consistent and cut them some slack seeing they would be being treated the same way the Pats were (being singled out for something everyone else is doing anyway)?

Rules: Please don't let facts get in the way of a good moral dilemma here. No arguing that tampering is not widespread or that only the Jets would have been caught tampering with a first round draft pick etc. According to the article, tampering is a serious issue with implications far worse than Spygate AND it is known to be a fairly common practice around the league.

With those things in mind, should the Jets be found guilty, would you advocate throwing the book at them or cutting them some slack?

 

[sieglo]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

Jets need to be made an example of for the sake of the league.

I'm talking multiple first round picks, a big fine, and some kind of suspension for Jets officials who were involved.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

One interesting change that the Jets themselves triggered were the new commissioner's rules where he forced all teams to agree that he could penalize them without having any verifiable evidence.

If Goodell is convinced the Jets tampered with a draft pick, and he doesn't have evidence to prove it, then he can still fine a team.

This rule was put into place precisely because Goodell recognized that the Patriots could have challenged his fine based on the incoherent wording on the memo he sent out in 2006.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

Link
With those things in mind, should the Jets be found guilty, would you advocate throwing the book at them or cutting them some slack?

We should be busy coming up with a new name for this scandal..

Tampergate?

 

[Absurdly Metro]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

We should be busy coming up with a new name for this scandal..

Tampergate?

LOL! must make sure it is marketed correctly

You didn't answer the question though...

 

[Wretch]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

We should be busy coming up with a new name for this scandal..

Tampergate?

Draftgate?

Crabgate?

 

[apple strudel]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

How is anybody going to ever prove it? It's not like there are ... tapes.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

If the Commish wants to stop this kind of thing, then he needs to establish a harsh penalty to send a message to the rest of the league. Plus, having been very harsh with the Pats over Spygate, it would be hypocritical to levy a lesser fine over an equally (if not more) egregious infraction.

I'm sure tampering is widespread, and I'll presume that no team is in a position to be throwing stones at the Jets. However, this sounds a little special. IF the Jets are directly negotiating in any way with Crabtree's agent such that it impairs SF's ability to sign their top 10 draft pick, that would be unprecedented, and would be a really big deal.

It makes a certain amount of sense that Crabtree would not be willing to hold out all season and potentially re-enter the draft unless he believes that someone is willing to offer him a big contract. Otherwise, the odds are he's just costing himself a ton of money, not to mention respect. If that belief is based on conversations his agent has had with another team, then that is flagrant tampering.

I say the proper punishment is that the Jets forfeit their rights to their own top 10 pick, Mark Sanchez, who becomes a free agent free to sign with any team other than the Jets. Maybe SF would like to make him an offer.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

How is anybody going to ever prove it? It's not like there are ... tapes.

There could be, you know, phone records and stuff. . . .

And there was enough evidence to "convict" the Niners of tampering with Lance Briggs.

BTW—as far as the penalty goes: this article has an interesting take, including a poll. (Some of the comments are priceless. )

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

How is anybody going to ever prove it? It's not like there are ... tapes.

Maybe there were tapes, but the league office just destroyed them.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

I have always maintained that tampering is a far worse form of cheating. What Belichick did was videotape something anyone in the stadium can see. Tampering can screw up a team for years.

I can't see them catching the Jets holding the bag on this especially if they have another one of Parker's clients on their roster. But if they can, Goodell needs to come down hard on them. They probably cost the 49ers a top ten pick this year since Crabtree won't sign with them and re-enter the draft next year (which he will be shocked when he finds out he will get far less than he thought). Goodell needs to strip them of a first and more because of it.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can rationally argue that videotaping does more damage to opponents than costing a team to lose the 10th overall pick in the draft. That is what tampering with Crabtree is likely to cost the 49ers.

 

[shmessy]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

There are 31 other teams out there.

There MUST be something to the reason that the Jets are the only team being mentioned in this.

I won't say anything other than I'm going to sit back and enjoy watching this story unfold.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT:Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jet's tampering would be worse than Spygat

I think tampering, whether many engage in it or not, is a lot more troubling conduct than filming something that's unfolding in plain sight for easier in depth analysis. I think if you found a team using technology in game to gain an unfair advantage (jamming or intercepting communications, using video tape to make in game adjustments, stealing or acquiring stolen intellectual property such as a playbook) that would be on a par with tampering.

One reason the Branch situation ended as it did was Branch also indicated as July passed into August that he had reason to believe that someone else was prepared to pay him a lot more money if he could get free of his current committment. BB challenged him to basically name that team or teams by giving him permission to seek a trade partner, and the JETS immediately stepped forward with a lowball trade compensation offer. The Seahawks ultimately jumped in after the fact and trumped that with a first rounder and the trade was made, but Bill filed tampering charges because he was certain the JETS had been in touch with this player if for no other reason than to reinforce his discontent and resolve and force the issue (make sure whatever else happened he didn't play out his contract here). Tannenbaum who has the ethics of a guttersnake was tight with Branch's agent.

All this and more is why the tempest over "spygate" was such a hypocrital crock of you know what. Chilly has been tampering with Brett for a couple of years...and everyone knows it. Cutler was expecting to land in DC when he shot his way out of Denver...

What Goodell needs to do on the heels of the new rules he instituted as a result of spygate (ownership accountability for any management conduct) is call each of the parties in (player, agent, GM, HC and owner) and and ask them to stipulate in writing exactly what contact if any they had with each other over the last 6 months pertaining to this player's status with the consequence being that anyone caught in a lie is suspended rather than fined... but he won't because in his heart he knows the answer. Punishing us had more to do with restoring the illusion of parity than defending the integrity of this league. It has none and never truly did. It's all about the almighty marketing dollar.

 

[apple strudel]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

There could be, you know, phone records and stuff. . . .

Well, I expect that even if there are everybody would lie about what they were talking about on those calls. Is that enough evidence? I don't know (of course, I hope so).

And there was enough evidence to "convict" the Niners of tampering with Lance Briggs.

I'm not familiar with the details of that case. What I will say is that if the league does dig up a smoking gun it would be great in the sense that it would essentially necessitate a very stiff penalty from the league. Less convincing evidence would probably lead to a less stiff penalty.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

No need for tapes.

Goodell is the emperor.

There was a new rule instituted that states, "What Goodell says goes."

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

Dangerous precedent here...
If I like your team's draft pick.
Why I'll just call him, tell him I'll pay him 2X the contract offered if he waits it out.

REX RYAN DIDN'T COME HERE TO KISS NFL TAMPERING RULES

 

[Absurdly Metro]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

Dangerous precedent here...
If I like your team's draft pick.
Why I'll just call him, tell him I'll pay him 2X the contract offered if he waits it out.

REX RYAN DIDN'T COME HERE TO KISS NFL TAMPERING RULES

Damn straight!

 

[jmt57]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

Lombardi clarifies his comments he made on Showtime about tampering in a column on the National Football Post, Two levels of tampering


As for the alleged tampering charge regarding the Jets, I’ve mentioned that this is very hard to prove. But since the 49ers have previously been fined for tampering, they know what it takes to prove the charge. And they’d better, because if the league finds they filed a frivolous claim, it can fine them, according to a memo issued last May. As I’ve written before, tampering is commonplace throughout the league, but there are two forms of it. The first, which I admit I have done, is to find out information about a particular player and get as much information on the situation as possible. If anyone in the NFL doesn’t admit this exists, they’re just not being honest. It happens all the time. The second is taking action -- making promises or doing deals before the time frame allows such talks to occur. And that’s where the gray area starts.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

The should have all of their Superbowl titles stripped.........oh wait.

Seriously, I know it's a pipe dream but I hope this story grows some legs and gets bigger as the season progresses.

 

[sieglo]

Re: OT: Yahoo Sport's Charles Robinson says Jets' tampering would be worse than Spyga

I like "Tampergate".

If we settle on one name and we all start using it (especially those who, say, dial into sports radio talk shows), then the media will eventually pick it up.