OT: Wow, Charlie Weis is going to have to explain this one...

[PatsFanSince74]

FWIW, I do think that Weis has finally managed to bring in a load of talent to that Notre Dame team. Golden Tate and Jimmy Clausen have been nothing short of pretty damn good so far this season and it seems that they finally have a capable RB in South Bend. However, the defense is still a major issue. In the end, I think it will be that side of the ball that costs ol' Charlie his job either at the end of this season or next season, and not the boneheaded calls of this afternoon. If he does lose this job, I will be nervous as Urban Meyer may decide to leave my Gators and fulfill his "dream job".

well said. thanks.

 

[condon84]

Pretty bad offensive play calling.

The defensive call was pretty bad too. Why blitz a freshman QB who can improvise? They should have played zone and let the freshman QB read the zone and make the throw.

 

[Deus Irae]

I find it difficult to blame the playcalling when it was the receiver dropping the ball.

 

[oldrover]

one other comment after the above.

the more that Mangini and Romeo and Charlie and (incipiently) Josh struggle on their own, the clearer it becomes that Bill Belichick was not a product of his Assistants, but rather that it is Bill Belichick who made his Assistants look great. Which brings us back to the old Parcells argument, which I won't get into here.

Regarding Weis and Crennel, Belichick has yet to win without them. Just sayin'...

 

[DarrylS]

Defensively they stunk up the place, the Mich freshman qb was playing out of his mind, because ND's D stunk, and could not make adjustments... Claussen is way overrated

Charlie's job has to be in jeopardy, this along with a bunch of mindless penalties made what seemed to be a good game, a 4th quarter fiasco.. btw am a life long ND fan.

 

[lurker1965]

Really, the playcalling was so unlike Weis, too. He was never known for stuff like that with the Pats or when he had Brady Quinn. That's why I'm guessing Clausen's decision making was to blame.

Sad too, cause beyond that Jimmy played really well.

Watch the 2003 season again. The standard ending was defense gets big stop/turnover and offense will run out clock. Offense goes and out leaving opponent time. Defense gets one more stop/turnover.

 

[lurker1965]

Regarding Weis and Crennel, Belichick has yet to win without them. Just sayin'...

I'd take Crennel over Pees.

Weis I wish the best of luck.

 

[zoostation]

The only even remote explanation might be that even if they ran the ball, Michigan would have called their timeouts resulting in Big Blue getting the ball back with the same amount of time. BUT they wouldn't have had their timeouts affecting their play calling......
Not smart no matter how you cut it....

clock management 101

 

[p8ryts]

NEM is alive and well. Revisionist memory. I remember Charlie doing unorthodox things as a play caller. The third down play was open, the but the QB and WR did not execute either because Clausen rushed the pass or the backup WR didn't turn for the ball in time. If the play had been successful, people would have been applauding his flexibility.

ND lost that game several different times during the contest and two pass incompletions may or may not have made the difference.

 

[Kontradiction]

I find it difficult to blame the playcalling when it was the receiver dropping the ball.

The point is that the receiver shouldn't have been thrown the ball in the first place. The first run of the new posession went for 11 yards. They could have easily drained the clock and Michigan's timeouts with a run game.

 

[lostjumper]

The point is that the receiver shouldn't have been thrown the ball in the first place. The first run of the new posession went for 11 yards. They could have easily drained the clock and Michigan's timeouts with a run game.

Wow...speaking of revisionist history, you obviously weren't paying much attention to the game. Notre Dame had the ball left with about 2:48 left on the clock.
1st play = a run for no gain. Michigan uses their first time out. Time left + 2:40. Now, Weiss could have run 2 more times, but Michigan would have used their last 2 timeouts to stop the clock. Once you throw in the 2 minute warning, Michigan would have received the ball with just under 2 minutes left on the clock. Thats plenty of time to score. So, Weiss needed to get another first down. Michigan was playing run, with the safety drawn up in the box. The wide receiver Tate had single coverage that he beat down the sideline, ball was a bit under thrown, and the receiver dropped it. If he catches it, game over.

I thought it was a good playcall by Weiss. And I'm not an apologist for him by any means. But the alternative that you suggest would have them run the ball 3 straight times into 9 men playing in the box, and then punt away with 2 minutes left.

 

[lostjumper]

The point is that the receiver shouldn't have been thrown the ball in the first place. The first run of the new posession went for 11 yards. They could have easily drained the clock and Michigan's timeouts with a run game.

And the 2nd run of the possession went for 1 yards...

 

[Patsrock]

Wow...speaking of revisionist history, you obviously weren't paying much attention to the game. Notre Dame had the ball left with about 2:48 left on the clock.
1st play = a run for no gain. Michigan uses their first time out. Time left + 2:40. Now, Weiss could have run 2 more times, but Michigan would have used their last 2 timeouts to stop the clock. Once you throw in the 2 minute warning, Michigan would have received the ball with just under 2 minutes left on the clock. Thats plenty of time to score. So, Weiss needed to get another first down. Michigan was playing run, with the safety drawn up in the box. The wide receiver Tate had single coverage that he beat down the sideline, ball was a bit under thrown, and the receiver dropped it. If he catches it, game over.

I thought it was a good playcall by Weiss. And I'm not an apologist for him by any means. But the alternative that you suggest would have them run the ball 3 straight times into 9 men playing in the box, and then punt away with 2 minutes left.

No 2 minute warning in college football. If you run you force Michigan to use all their timeouts leaving them with none to use on the final drive. On which they used 2. I also hate the college rule of the clock stopping after a first down.

Here is the drive summary

ND has ball with 3:07
1st and 10 at ND 16 Armando Allen Jr rush for 13 yards to the NDame 29 for a 1ST down. 34 31
1st and 10 at ND 29 Robert Hughes rush for no gain to the NDame 29.
2nd and 10 at ND 29 Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 02:29.
2nd and 10 at ND 29 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete to Golden Tate, broken up by Donovan Warren.
3rd and 10 at ND 29 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete to Shaquelle Evans.
4th and 10 at ND 29 Eric Maust punt for 29 yards, fair catch by Greg Mathews at the Mich 42.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wow...speaking of revisionist history, you obviously weren't paying much attention to the game. Notre Dame had the ball left with about 2:48 left on the clock.
1st play = a run for no gain. Michigan uses their first time out. Time left + 2:40. Now, Weiss could have run 2 more times, but Michigan would have used their last 2 timeouts to stop the clock. Once you throw in the 2 minute warning, Michigan would have received the ball with just under 2 minutes left on the clock. Thats plenty of time to score. So, Weiss needed to get another first down. Michigan was playing run, with the safety drawn up in the box. The wide receiver Tate had single coverage that he beat down the sideline, ball was a bit under thrown, and the receiver dropped it. If he catches it, game over.

I thought it was a good playcall by Weiss. And I'm not an apologist for him by any means. But the alternative that you suggest would have them run the ball 3 straight times into 9 men playing in the box, and then punt away with 2 minutes left.

There's no two minute warning in college football. And the point of running the ball is to force Michigan to use their two timeouts... especially with a true freshman quarterback who would have been forced to act on instinct in the two minute drill, something his coaches most likely didn't want being that it was the second game of the season. Sorry, but 8 out of 10 coaches run the ball in that situation. When you're up 34-31 and your defense has shown themselves incapable of stopping Michigan's offense, AND your offense just cracked an 11 yard run you continue to pound the football, force Michigan to use it's timeouts, and if you must punt, then you will put Michigan deeper their own territory. It's called "protecting the lead".

By the way, the Clausen ball wasn't that underthrown. The CB was running step for step with the receiver and could have picked it off.

 

[SVN]

Wow...speaking of revisionist history, you obviously weren't paying much attention to the game. Notre Dame had the ball left with about 2:48 left on the clock.
1st play = a run for no gain. Michigan uses their first time out. Time left + 2:40. Now, Weiss could have run 2 more times, but Michigan would have used their last 2 timeouts to stop the clock. Once you throw in the 2 minute warning, Michigan would have received the ball with just under 2 minutes left on the clock. Thats plenty of time to score. So, Weiss needed to get another first down. Michigan was playing run, with the safety drawn up in the box. The wide receiver Tate had single coverage that he beat down the sideline, ball was a bit under thrown, and the receiver dropped it. If he catches it, game over.

I thought it was a good playcall by Weiss. And I'm not an apologist for him by any means. But the alternative that you suggest would have them run the ball 3 straight times into 9 men playing in the box, and then punt away with 2 minutes left.

it worked a lot with the pats and it ended games. patriots were applauded for going in the for kill. Watch the steelers champ game in 2005. the steeler announcer admits thats the big difference he likes in the pats that they go in for the victory andnot hang around.
When such boldness works people dont remember. Remember SB 36 1:30 left with no timeouts and 80+ yards to go ? if we had run 3 times and taken a knee ??

 

[Rob0729]

So are we saying that Weis lacked situational awareness in the game?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[maverick4]

Not trying to defend Charlie here, but how do you know Claussen didn't audible out and call 3 straight passing plays himself?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Regarding Weis and Crennel, Belichick has yet to win without them. Just sayin'...

Has yet to win an SB without them, yes. But 16--0 and then 11--5 without Brady seals it for me.

 

[mgteich]

Charlie doesn't allow three audibles in row, especially three running plays.

Not trying to defend Charlie here, but how do you know Claussen didn't audible out and call 3 straight passing plays himself?

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Man that is stupid.