OT: Would you ever hold out?

[Mike the Brit]

Not too many people get paid to do what they love doing. But football is high risk. So it would be important to me to have enough guaranteed money that, if it all ended suddenly, I would know that my family and I would live decently. If the team wasn't offering me that, I'd do what I needed to. But beyond that I've got other priorities.

 

[Simkin]

TBH, if I were Tom Brady I would hold out every offseason since 2004.

 

[fnordcircle]

I consider myself an extremely loyal person (15 years with the same company, never cheated on my wife, blah blah blah), but yes... I can see circumstances where I would hold out. I would try to do it quietly and without acrimony.

Probably the most reasonable response in this thread.

 

[BradyFTW!]

For me I don't agree with holdouts. My feeling is if I sign my name on a contract that's a promise that I'll fulfill my end of the deal. Could you imagine the uproar if an owner said "Well, you didn't live up to expectations so we're not gonna pay you as much."

Teams do that everytime they cut someone.

If I was outproducing my contract to a huge degree, then sure, I would entertain the idea of holding out. I definitely wouldn't rule it out on principle alone. NFL careers don't last long enough to play a bunch of years way below your market worth.

 

[BradyFTW!]

As long as good players have short careers due to injuries, I'll never go against a young player, especially a RB, on a rookie contract trying to get his fair value for a contract. Injury risk is too great & careers too short to play out an extended period of time on a bad contract.

Definitely, Chris Johnson is the primary example here. When you look at how much Tennessee rides him, anything short of holding out just doesn't make sense. They're running him into the ground right now, and are taking years off of the end of his career. Why wouldn't he hold out and demand that they pay him accordingly for the 300+ carries per year that he gives them?

 

[BradyFTW!]

But that's the contract as the NFLPA agreed to it. Guaranteed money is just that, guaranteed even if you suck. Unguaranteed salary is just that, not guaranteed. When these guys sign their deal they know up front what is and isn't guaranteed. In many cases they are being paid a % of the total contract value up front as part of the trade off. Trouble is many of them forget that (or have spent that) by the time the backend rolls around. While others aren't holding out for a deal per se so much as holding out for what the team may view as an unrealistic deal.

And the average career of an NFL player is 6 years. The numbers the association trumpeted during the lockout included any cup of coffee guy ever signed who never made a 53 man roster like all the UDFA's teams are trying out this TC season. The average pro bowler has a 9 year career.

And anyone recommending the NFL adopt any MLB rules is nuts...

Likewise, when the team signs a player to a contract, they know that a holdout in the event of outperforming the contract is a likely scenario, the penalties of which are well-established.

 

[Seels]

Depends on the organization I'm with, what I would think of the longterm plans, and how much I think I'm getting underpaid. If I'm on a go-nowhere org with no plan like the mid decade Raiders / 9ers or the current Bengals or Broncos? Absolutely. If I'm in an org like the Steelers / Pats / Falcons / Packers that has clear long and short term plans, well it'd be a little harder.

 

[jcdavey]

For me I don't agree with holdouts. My feeling is if I sign my name on a contract that's a promise that I'll fulfill my end of the deal. Could you imagine the uproar if an owner said "Well, you didn't live up to expectations so we're not gonna pay you as much."

Maybe these guys should have thought about that before signing their long term contracts.

i agree with you

i would honor my contract, even if the team doesn't always honor their end

 

[fester]

Could you imagine the uproar if an owner said "Well, you didn't live up to expectations so we're not gonna pay you as much."

That part about the owners saying "Nope, you're not good enough, so here is a pay-cut" happens every year on every team as veteran players get cut because there is a cheaper, probably younger player who the owners/coaches/GM wants to use that roster spot/cap space for.

If the contracts were A) fully guaranteed and b) rookie contracts were set at market value or very short (2 year initial deal maybe), then I would be less sympathetic to hold-outs, but under the current system, holding out is the limited leverage a player has to maximize their lifetime earnings.

 

[jcdavey]

it's all about integrity IMO

a team lacking integrity on their end of the deal, isn't going to effect me and my own integrity

"if billy jumped off a bridge, would you?" and i'm not talking about bungie jumping

 

[Patriot Missile]

If Tedy Bruschi negotiated my contract I would have to say yes. He was vastly underpaid but yet played it out.

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

Absolutely, when your career is so short you need to make every cent you can

 

[fnordcircle]

it's all about integrity IMO

a team lacking integrity on their end of the deal, isn't going to effect me and my own integrity

"if billy jumped off a bridge, would you?" and i'm not talking about bungie jumping

So if your employer was playing by one set of rules (Didn't treat contracts as a 'my word is my bond' thing) and was constantly letting co-workers go without fulfilling their contract you would bravely soldier on if you were unhappy?

If so then fair enough, but either way if you look down on players for not living up to their end of a contract you should be looking down on teams for the exact same thing.

PS - Have you ever said 'I hope they cut his ass' about a player?

 

[Synovia]

For me I don't agree with holdouts. My feeling is if I sign my name on a contract that's a promise that I'll fulfill my end of the deal. Could you imagine the uproar if an owner said "Well, you didn't live up to expectations so we're not gonna pay you as much.".

Generally I agree, the problem is with guys on their rookie contracts, who really don't get a chance to actually negotiate, because they're only allowed to talk to the team that drafted them.

Its pretty much "take it or leave it".

 

[Synovia]

What about rookie holdouts who've never a signed a contract before.
Or what about players who have been franchise tagged who were otherwise looking at free agency? There's still lots of scenarios where a player could hold out who hasn't signed a thing.

The contract stipulates that you are bound by the CBA. The CBA has the terms for the franchise tag, so essentially when you sign the contract, you're agreeing to abide by the tag if a team puts it on you.

 

[Synovia]

i would honor my contract, even if the team doesn't always honor their end

Teams always honor their contracts. The contracts specifically include clauses about cutting players. Cutting a player isn't "not honoring the contract", its executing a clause in the contract.


Every unrestricted free agent player in the NFL is free to negotiate a fully guaranteed contract. Every. Single. One. And some have.

The problem is, if you want fully guaranteed, you have to agree to take much less money, and players don't like doing that (and neither do their agents).

 

[TheComeback]

To me, $600,000 is more than enough to play a game that I'd play for fun anyway. Anyone who thinks they "deserve" seven figures for playing a sport is a spoiled brat.

Of course, I wouldn't be counting on football to pay for my retirement. That's why you develop other skills and interests.

 

[Synovia]

To me, $600,000 is more than enough to play a game that I'd play for fun anyway. Anyone who thinks they "deserve" seven figures for playing a sport is a spoiled brat.

Of course, I wouldn't be counting on football to pay for my retirement. That's why you develop other skills and interests.

Anyone who has a skill, and doesn't think they deserve to be paid market for that skill, is an idiot.

The fact that its a game is irrelevant; its a marketable skill that has a high value in our society.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Teams always honor their contracts. The contracts specifically include clauses about cutting players. Cutting a player isn't "not honoring the contract", its executing a clause in the contract.

They also specifically include clauses about holdouts.

 

[Synovia]

They also specifically include clauses about holdouts.

Never said that they didn't.Those clauses specify that holding out violates the contract, and they give specific penalties for violating the contract in that manner.


Its all business. There's no dishonor here, until people start talking crap in the media,