OT: Why the Colts Scare Me

[ICSB]

But most of the playoff teams were with Dungy. Now there's no Dungy and very few coaches left from last year. Along with no Harrison or offensive line.

I could care less that Dungy is gone. I got sick of his holier then thou attitude, his traveling to Tampa all the time to see family and his writing books during the season.

Honestly, he was a good man but highly overrated as a head coach. I am sure Caldwell can do a better job then people are giving him credit for.

One thing about the Colts team over the years has been consistency with the offense. And as long as Manning and Mudd and Moore are in control here I feel confident that will keep going.

As for the defense, it will have some new looks under Larry Coyer. More blitzing and some new wrinkles. I am not even sure what that dumbass Meeks did over the years.

As for our ex dumb special teams coach the Jags now have him. And Jags fans are already complaining how bad their special teams look.

As for Harrison he is one I always respected and will remember. But he was pretty much a no show last few seasons and I never considered him a team leader. His absence is being highly overrated as well. How many teams have tried to sign him since we let him go? Oh wait.

The Colts bias here every offseason is laughable.

 

[Synovia]

As for Harrison he is one I always respected and will remember. But he was pretty much a no show last few seasons and I never considered him a team leader. His absence is being highly overrated as well.

Marvin Harrison hasn't been an elite WR since 2006. His "absense" this year will allow Gonzalez more playing time, which may actually make the colts better.

 

[ICSB]

And they had a HOF WR, a great RB, a stellar o-line. Again, I stand by my point. Manning can't do it alone. He arguably had the best offense talent around him for most of the past decade.

They have the potential this year to have a bad defense and not much talent on offense other than his two starting WRs.

You are so laughable rob with your Colts bias and false logic once again. Last offseason you were high on the freaking Jaguars. Last year you picked the Colts to pretty much lose every game to a decent team.

And Good Lord who cares if they had a few lucky wins last year. They have had lucky wins every year. So have the Patriots. So have most teams. And last year is not this season so last years lucky wins have nothing to do with this current team.

To say we do not have much talent on offense but our two starting receivers is hilarious. Dallas Clark. Addai is healthy again. Donald Brown. Young talent in Garcon and Collie. Tamme is a good receiving TE.

There is a problem with o line depth but the run blocking is better with Pollak in his second year and the return of Lilja. Charlie Johnson and Ugoh are not elite LTs by any mean but have been our LTs for the last few seasons.

And to say we have the potential to have a bad defense is fine. But we also have the potential to be a good defense. The d line is bulked up at DT. The pass rush is great. Clint Session is a good LB who you might be seeing more from. The secondary is loaded with talent. Even with injuries the backup secondary players are good.

 

[efin98]

So, it would be kind of safe to say that Manning pretty much guarantees they'll be a playoff-quality contender then.

No. It's safe to say he will put up big numbers but that's it. He isn't the only person on the team, they still have questions at major positions that he may not be able to overcompensate for.

 

[ICSB]

Marvin Harrison hasn't been an elite WR since 2006. His "absense" this year will allow Gonzalez more playing time, which may actually make the colts better.

I am absolutely baffled how Harrison is being used as an excuse for a huge loss. Seems the media and message forum experts love to say the same things.

The guy has had offseason issues the last few years and the Manning to Harrison connection has been completely off since the Super Bowl. Manning has also tried to force too many balls to him.

It was time to end it. He was once great for the Colts but Gonzalez is the better option now.

Harrison is still without a team btw. If he was so good, I would think someone would have picked him up by now. He needs Dungy I guess to find him another team.

 

[Rob0729]

You are so laughable rob with your Colts bias and false logic once again. Last offseason you were high on the freaking Jaguars. Last year you picked the Colts to pretty much lose every game to a decent team.

And Good Lord who cares if they had a few lucky wins last year. They have had lucky wins every year. So have the Patriots. So have most teams. And last year is not this season so last years lucky wins have nothing to do with this current team.

To say we do not have much talent on offense but our two starting receivers is hilarious. Dallas Clark. Addai is healthy again. Donald Brown. Young talent in Garcon and Collie. Tamme is a good receiving TE.

There is a problem with o line depth but the run blocking is better with Pollak in his second year and the return of Lilja. Charlie Johnson and Ugoh are not elite LTs by any mean but have been our LTs for the last few seasons.

And to say we have the potential to have a bad defense is fine. But we also have the potential to be a good defense. The d line is bulked up at DT. The pass rush is great. Clint Session is a good LB who you might be seeing more from. The secondary is loaded with talent. Even with injuries the backup secondary players are good.

Sorry, I wasn't impressed with the Colts last year. Hence why they were easily bounced out of the playoffs by a flawed Chargers team. They were lucky last year (Sage Rosenfels ripping the defeat from the jaws of victory when he could have won with just taking a knee, a fumble return for a TD in a 7-6 win, meeting Tennessee when they had nothing to play for, the easiest schedule in the league for the last month and a half, etc.), but it is better to be lucky than unlucky. The Pats had a lot of that luck in the 2001 season, but paid for it in 2002.

As for the Jags, sorry I made the prediction before their entire offensive line was placed on IR.

I still maintain that I didn't think the last year's Colts were that good and clearly not as good as their record and they didn't improve much this year from what I can see. As for talent on the roster, there is some real good talent, but not like the past. I am not holding my breath on Addai. He hasn't been any good for a year and a half and you can only blame injuries for so long.

 

[Rob0729]

I am absolutely baffled how Harrison is being used as an excuse for a huge loss. Seems the media and message forum experts love to say the same things.

The guy has had offseason issues the last few years and the Manning to Harrison connection has been completely off since the Super Bowl. Manning has also tried to force too many balls to him.

It was time to end it. He was once great for the Colts but Gonzalez is the better option now.

Harrison is still without a team btw. If he was so good, I would think someone would have picked him up by now. He needs Dungy I guess to find him another team.

Harrison hasn't been good for a while, but teams still had to gameplan around him because he still showed flashes of HOF talent. Even as a #3 WR, he did help the Colts in that aspect. I think his loss overall is minor, but it isn't neglible. Losing Dungy is far more of a loss.

 

[Rob0729]

No. It's safe to say he will put up big numbers but that's it. He isn't the only person on the team, they still have questions at major positions that he may not be able to overcompensate for.

I agree. No QB in history could win on his own. Even Manning and Brady need talent around him on either side of the ball to be contenders. If any QB could win on their own, it would be one of those two because they both will probably finish their careers in the top 3 of all time. But I still say neither one can pull it off.

 

[ICSB]

Sorry, I wasn't impressed with the Colts last year. Hence why they were easily bounced out of the playoffs by a flawed Chargers team. They were lucky last year, but it is better to be lucky than unlucky.

As for the Jags, sorry I made the prediction before their entire offensive line was placed on IR.

Our entire line was hurt last year as well. And last year has NOTHING to do with this current season.
Keep in mind Manning missed the offseason, he has two surgeries and started week 1 with 3 new interior lineman.

I was impressed by Peyton and a few of the Colts last year like Freeney and Mathis big time. But they were flawed like the Chargers were. If anything I think the Titans were lucky. Lucky Manning was hobbled the first half of the season and lucky they suffered no injuries like the Colts did everywhere.

If the Colts stop the run better next year and run the ball better fact is they WILL be a better team.

All teams have issues, there is no perfect team in the league. I will say this, I have heard the Colts have a chip on their shoulder from all the people saying they will suck or on the decline. I think if they can put it together it will be a good season for them.

Some consider the 2007 Patriots lucky. They should have lost to Baltimore. They almost lost to a few other teams including the Colts and Eagles. They declined as the season went on and ran out of gas. And the Patriots won 3 SBs by 3 points, many consider that lucky. However, a win is a win. And a loss is a loss.

All teams get lucky you know. The luck argument is pretty sad.

And pretty much every team in the league has flaws.There is no perfect team.

 

[ICSB]

Harrison hasn't been good for a while, but teams still had to gameplan around him because he still showed flashes of HOF talent. Even as a #3 WR, he did help the Colts in that aspect. I think his loss overall is minor, but it isn't neglible. Losing Dungy is far more of a loss.

The Steelers actually said last year they wanted to make Peyton throw to Harrison to try and beat them. Harrison was just awful against the good defenses. Awful. He played well against teams with awful secondaries like the Texans though.

And I am fine with Dungy gone since I did not feel his heart was in football for the last few seasons, mostly since the Super Bowl.

I know Caldwell is unknown, but I think its unfair for people to criticize him before he coaches a full season. If Polian thinks this is the right man for the job then so do I. So far I like him. He seems a little tougher then Dungy and not afraid to fire coordinators who have slacked off (Meeks, Purnell) or bench players who are underperforming (Ugoh.) And the team has been working hard for him.

As for Addai, he had surgery in January. He looks good this preseason so far. But for him the addition of Brown will be the biggest. A talented young back to take the pressure off of him. Rhodes was completely average but worked hard.

 

[Synovia]

No. It's safe to say he will put up big numbers but that's it. He isn't the only person on the team, they still have questions at major positions that he may not be able to overcompensate for.

They've had those same questions for 10 years though. Besides one year, he's had a terrible defense on the other side.

 

[Synovia]

I think his loss overall is minor, but it isn't neglible. Losing Dungy is far more of a loss.

So, losing a Defensive head coach, who in his entire tenure, fielded one half decent defense, and every other year fielded a terrible one, is a huge loss? Dungy was fungible.

 

[Rob0729]

Our entire line was hurt last year as well. And last year has NOTHING to do with this current season.
Keep in mind Manning missed the offseason, he has two surgeries and started week 1 with 3 new interior lineman.

I was impressed by Peyton and a few of the Colts last year like Freeney and Mathis big time. But they were flawed like the Chargers were. If anything I think the Titans were lucky. Lucky Manning was hobbled the first half of the season and lucky they suffered no injuries like the Colts did everywhere.

If the Colts stop the run better next year and run the ball better fact is they WILL be a better team.

All teams have issues, there is no perfect team in the league. I will say this, I have heard the Colts have a chip on their shoulder from all the people saying they will suck or on the decline. I think if they can put it together it will be a good season for them.

Some consider the 2007 Patriots lucky. They should have lost to Baltimore. They almost lost to a few other teams including the Colts and Eagles. They declined as the season went on and ran out of gas. And the Patriots won 3 SBs by 3 points, many consider that lucky. However, a win is a win. And a loss is a loss.

All teams get lucky you know. The luck argument is pretty sad.

And pretty much every team in the league has flaws.There is no perfect team.

Again, I already addressed the luck issues. Every few years there is a team that everything seems to go their ways in games and win 4-6 games they have no business winning. You can make a strong argument that the Colts were that team last year or is winning games on fumble recovery for TDs a designed play (the Colts won two games that way). Sorry, the Colts just had one of those seasons that other than injuries, the ball always bounced in their favor. The Pats had it in 2001 when the Pats won game on plays where their players recovered fumbles while unconscious. I take nothing from a team that capitalize on those breaks, but those breaks don't come every year and the Colts will have to win without those breaks with potentially a much harder schedule.

 

[Synovia]

Again, I already addressed the luck issues. Every few years there is a team that everything seems to go their ways in games and win 4-6 games they have no business winning. You can make a strong argument that the Colts were that team last year or is winning games on fumble recovery for TDs a designed play (the Colts won two games that way). Sorry, the Colts just had one of those seasons that other than injuries, the ball always bounced in their favor.

Right, and that will probably even out Rob, but they also won't have to deal with having a hurt quarterback for most of the season. Thats HUGE.


And despite all that, they still had a DVOA of +15%, good for 8th in the league. Their offense was +17%, a good 15-20% lower than its been in preceding years. Most likely, their offense is back in that 30% range, and their defense doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Rob0729]

So, losing a Defensive head coach, who in his entire tenure, fielded one half decent defense, and every other year fielded a terrible one, is a huge loss? Dungy was fungible.

You do realize that Belichick is a defensive genius and the Pats' defense hasn't been much better than the Colts' defense the last few years (almost every year since 2005 except for 2006) and Belichick has been hiding that fact by doing things on the offense. So maybe Belichick is fungible too and Brady and Crennel are the true reasons the Pats won championships.

Seriously, Dungy developed two different teams into Super Bowl contenders by maximizing the talent he had on the field. To argue that Dungy isn't a loss tells me you don't know much about football. The guy may not be at Belichick's level, but he was definitely one of the top head coaches in the league when he left. He is a great coach.

Caldwell might be a great coach too or is able to bring enough to the table to continue what Dungy was doing, but no one was calling Manning the greatest of all time and guaranteeing he could bring his team to the playoffs when Jim Mora was the Head Coach (made the playoffs 2 out of 4 years with Manning at QB).

 

[Rob0729]

Right, and that will probably even out Rob, but they also won't have to deal with having a hurt quarterback for most of the season. Thats HUGE.


And despite all that, they still had a DVOA of +15%, good for 8th in the league. Their offense was +17%, a good 15-20% lower than its been in preceding years. Most likely, their offense is back in that 30% range, and their defense doesn't matter anymore.

I didn't say the offense would totally suck, but it isn't what it was and not good enough to have them win year after year anymore. Saying Manning's injuries caused all of the drop is shortsighted. He had some great games (Baltimore comes to mind) early in the season. It may have hurt some, but he was healthy when a bad Cleveland team in December held him to 125 yards and 2 INTs with no TDs. Or mid October where he had 225 yards, 2 INTs, and no TDs vs. Green Bay.

 

[ICSB]

Again, I already addressed the luck issues. Every few years there is a team that everything seems to go their ways in games and win 4-6 games they have no business winning. You can make a strong argument that the Colts were that team last year or is winning games on fumble recovery for TDs a designed play (the Colts won two games that way). Sorry, the Colts just had one of those seasons that other than injuries, the ball always bounced in their favor. The Pats had it in 2001 when the Pats won game on plays where their players recovered fumbles while unconscious. I take nothing from a team that capitalize on those breaks, but those breaks don't come every year and the Colts will have to win without those breaks with potentially a much harder schedule.

Next years schedule on paper right now looks much easier then last years. No Steelers or Chargers for one. And the NFC West.

Last year going into the season we had the third toughest schedule in the league and people were once again predicting our demise based on the schedule. Funny how by years end that changes in peoples minds.

Once again you are assuming the Colts will NEED the breaks to win games next year. You are assuming this team can't get better.

Thats just the Pats homer in you talking. I am sure you have the Patriots in the Super Bowl again correct?

Oh Rob. I have to admit as long as you dont like the Colts chances it gives them a better chance LOL.

 

[ICSB]

I didn't say the offense would totally suck, but it isn't what it was and not good enough to have them win year after year anymore. Saying Manning's injuries caused all of the drop is shortsighted. He had some great games (Baltimore comes to mind) early in the season. It may have hurt some, but he was healthy when a bad Cleveland team in December held him to 125 yards and 2 INTs with no TDs. Or mid October where he had 225 yards, 2 INTs, and no TDs vs. Green Bay.

Manning was never completely healthy last year. The stretch play was never completely in there either based on his knee. Its back finally.

He is just 100% now.

You make me laugh. You seriously overanalyze everything Colts related.

 

[ICSB]

You do realize that Belichick is a defensive genius and the Pats' defense hasn't been much better than the Colts' defense the last few years (almost every year since 2005 except for 2006) and Belichick has been hiding that fact by doing things on the offense. So maybe Belichick is fungible too and Brady and Crennel are the true reasons the Pats won championships.

Seriously, Dungy developed two different teams into Super Bowl contenders by maximizing the talent he had on the field. To argue that Dungy isn't a loss tells me you don't know much about football. The guy may not be at Belichick's level, but he was definitely one of the top head coaches in the league when he left. He is a great coach.

Caldwell might be a great coach too or is able to bring enough to the table to continue what Dungy was doing, but no one was calling Manning the greatest of all time and guaranteeing he could bring his team to the playoffs when Jim Mora was the Head Coach (made the playoffs 2 out of 4 years with Manning at QB).

My problem with Tony Dungy was his love for the small fast defensive player.

Thats fine. But you can't stop the run with those guys at DT. And we never had proper depth at DT.

I see this year we bring back Ed Johnson (who Dungy kicked off) and draft and pick up several big bodies.

To me thats big. The Colts are showing they are making a strong effort to improve the run defenses which outside of one playoff run have gotten gashed. And lets be honest, in that SB run the Colts faced one dimensional offenses. So far this preseason the Colts run D looks improved.

My criticism of Dungy was mostly with his defense. His defense allowed teams to milk the clock and play keep away from Peyton Manning. I would rather give up the occasional big play and get our offense back on the field then see teams drain the clock every game. Which is exactly what happened.

When we played the Jaguars week 3 last year our defense was on the field for 40 minutes. Thats pathetic.

Dungy did help build a SB team in Tampa but he did not get them over the top. Even Warren Sapp said in the America's game video that he loved Dungy but he could not win the big one.

 

[Synovia]

I didn't say the offense would totally suck, but it isn't what it was and not good enough to have them win year after year anymore. Saying Manning's injuries caused all of the drop is shortsighted.

Manning's mobility was affected all year, it shouldn't be this year.


That being said, Indy's offensive DVOA was 19.6% at week 17. At week 8, it was 7.4%. So, during the week 9-17, their offense was playing at somewhere around 32%.

The colts offense, by year:

2007:24.3
2006:29.0
2005:23.6
2004:33.2

So, the thought that Manning's mobility, or whatever else was going on at the beginning of the year not being a factor is pretty silly.