OT: Why isn't Bill Polian being criticized?

[Tunescribe]

Polian truly disrespects the Colts fan base. First he forgoes a shot at an historic undefeated season by resting the starters which only put them out of sync and backfired in the playoffs. Now this fiasco of a season where winning is once again an afterthought. Great culture he's building there.

 

[ausbacker]

Clearly you haven't watched USC football since Carroll took off.

Stanford has the 24th ranked defense in the country. USC's is 53rd, so Barkley's had to carry his team much more than Luck has.
Stanford has a 1,000 yard rusher. USC doesn't.
Sure Barkley has Robert Woods, but Luck also has guys like Coby Fleener, who is one of the best tight ends in the country, and they both have future first round left tackles protecting them in Kalil and Martin.

Overall USC probably still has more talent, but more talent than Luck could dream of? That's just laughable. This isn't 2004 anymore and USC isn't heads and shoulders above anyone in the Pac-10. They lost 4 games last season, which would've never happened 4 years ago even with John David Booty starting.

I get it, you dislike USC and Barkley, but don't let the facts get in the way.

I have no allegiance to any team in college football and purely watch it for the entertainment value and find it awkward on your behalf that you would agree with my initial point anyway.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think we all agree that theColts, even with a healthy Manning, wasn't a playoff team this season. Polian SHOULD be pilloried for a myriad of reasons. This team has been gutted from the inside. Horrible recent drafts and FA moves have made theColts a shadow of their former selves. In today's NFL a team can go from the depths to the title much more quickly than in the past. But I don't think theColts are even 2 years away from being competitive. This rebuild is more likely to look like the fall of the Rams than a quick turnaround. Here is my prediction of things to come.

1. Manning is NOT going to want to go back to that mess when he's healthy. Unlike NE, he'd be looking at a disaster of an OL to protect him in his dotage, and an awful D would put the pressure on him to score almost every drive. No. Look for Manning to be traded, The Skins and Dolphins are just 2 teams that come to mind that would become instant contenders with a healthy Manning at the controls. However contrary to most observers, I don't think it will take the "boatload" of picks most think it will take to get him. He is old, injured, missed a season and comes with one of the biggest cap hit in the league. A first one year, then the next will be the maximum theColts could get. More likely would be a first and third

2. There seems to be a plethora of good QBs coming out this year. If nothing changes, Luck, Barkley and Griffith will all be top 5 picks. I think that the best way for theColts to replenish their larder would be to trade BOTH the #1 pick AND Manning. By moving down a few picks, theColt could still pick up a top notch QB prospect AND 3 more high picks.

They can't trade Manning ken, his deal is set up with an option due 5 days before the start of the league year. If they don't pick it up they have to cut him or (according to Mike Lombardi) they are on the hook for the non exercise clause portion of the deal that says he gets $28M in 2012 salary if they don't pick it up. No one is trading anything of value for 1 year of Manning at $28M when you weren't interested in keeping him.

If they pick up the option they are on the hook for $40M in bonus money that makes it impossible to trade him until 2015 - the last year of his full deal. And they can't trade him before the deadline for the option because you can't trade a player after the trading deadline until the start of 2012 FA...if he is still yours to trade at that time... If they keep Manning and draft Luck their QB will be taking up the kind of money Irsay said you couldn't be competitive paying the position ($22M+) and somebody isn't going to be happy sitting sooner or later... and you aren't going to reap the benefit elsewhere on the roster of adding a top 5 pick or having multiple picks first round picks over the next couple of seasons to help you retool...

Mathis and Wayne are UFA in 2012. So is Saturday. If you can't afford to re-sign or tag or replace them in FA this team isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse...and it's already borderline pretty bad. They don't have a viable running back. Addai has disappointed and they only reluctantly re-signed him this season and he's been hurt again. Brown seems to be a bust. They drafted 2 OT's last year and both have been disappointing and injured as rookies. And then there is the defense...which has never been very good except in brief flashes when Dungy and BobSanders were still around.

Drafting Luck would be a best case scenario as far as Patsfans are concerned. Manning alone might make them competitive within the AFCS again, it won't make that team competitive in the AFC. If Manning is able to come back healthy even for 2-3 more seasons and they use the draft capital from trading the #1 pick to retool...they could be competitive within the conference although coaching changes might also need to be made. And I don't see Manning willing to start over anywhere else unless the right situation comes along and he's beyond certain he's going to be back at close to 100% and he's so pissed at Indy punishing them becomes part of the legacy. He won't play in the AFCE... for lots of reasons, nor do I think he'd be interested in competing with Elisha in the NFCE. He isn't going to play for some egotistical HC or OC who wants him to fit in to an existing system. He has one that was built to suit him and it worked for him. He's only going to go somewhere he can install that and call the shots including which personnel he's surrounded with on offense - because it takes time to start over and he doesn't have more than 3-4 years left at best. Tennessee or Jax comes to mind, particularly if Del Rio is out. The Viqueens are a possibility and he could sure drum up interest in a new stadium there as is AZ (look what Whisenhut did with an aging Warner) because they are domed and he isn't going to want to face cold weather outdoor conditions. Seattle is a possibility because Paul Allen has bags of cash and no QB and Pete would stay out of Manning's way and that division has been up for grabs forever.

But he also knows what he is worth to Irsay's bottom line and if he can play he will play in Indy and if he can't play he will retire aColt... If GB was willing to pay Favre $20M to retire a Packer, Manning is worth at least that to Indianapolis between now and Canton...

 

[102 Pat]

It's fascinating to think that many in the Colts organization and fanbase are clamouring for a QB who has never thrown a NFL pass yet.

 

[shmessy]

Mathis and Wayne are UFA in 2012. So is Saturday. If you can't afford to re-sign or tag or replace them in FA this team isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse...and it's already borderline pretty bad.

Wow. Talk about a GREAT opportunity to completely screw up the Colts while upgrading our Center position with Bob Kraft's new best friend!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think Saturday only came back this season for a last hurrah with Manning. Might try to do it again if Manning remains. Otherwise I think he hangs 'em up. The way Polian ballaxes his line picks these days and his inclination to toss OLmen under the bus has really grated on Jeff...

Many of the draft Luck group in Indy are less enamored with the idea of replacing Manning now or even in a couple of years than they are with taking the guesswork out of that first pick for Polian. It's when he picks best...QB at #1. For the last 3-4 years his early round draft picks have been disappointments at best and utter busts at worst. He will still land a gem or two in the late rounds and as UDFA's but then he won't pay them to stay if they pan out. And some of them start out impressively and then kind of fall off anyway...lately I think that is due to the downgrading of the coaching staff from it's heyday with Dungy on D and Moore and Mudd on O. This team was built via the draft. Polian has an aversion to FA unless they are PK's. Financially and philosophically. Last big defensive FA he signed cost him $13M for a handful of games in one season.

I think if they had more faith in the Polian's and a clearer sense of Manning's status Indy fans would embrace reloading via the draft based on the suffering thru this Manningless season from hell. But the fact is they don't have either any more so they are panicing and demanding a new/next Manning so they can just get back to winning all the time... Very naive.

 

[The_Riddler]

i wonder why more people didn't talk about that? they talked more about miami oddly going for 2 vs denver, than they did about this play which was even weirder, given the time left in the game (over two minutes)

You saw the play huh? Wasn't that one of the worst tank jobs you've ever seen? If I'm Goodell and witnessed what the Colts purposely did at the end of that Benglas game to purposely lose that lead they had late, I would be livid.

In that same game, Dallas Clark literally let a defender take the ball right out of his arms. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I would love to watch that entire game, I only saw game clips because it was the biggest tank job I've ever seen. They've been doing this all year long to get Luck.

This is why the NFL has to have draft lottery and it's to protect against bull-shi& like this. Teams who tank aren't guaranteed that top pick. I think the NFL should have a TOP 5 lottery selection similar to the NBA to keep teams like the Colts wiping out the integrity of any game they play. The Colts have done this all year long. You'll notice that even if they get a 1st half lead, they'll always, always purposely piss it away in the second half, go back and look at their games this year, it's happened numerous times.

This is all Bill Polian, I don't blame the Colt players, they're only doing what they've been instructed to do.

 

[shmessy]

You saw the play huh? Wasn't that one of the worst tank jobs you've ever seen? If I'm Goodell and witnessed what the Colts purposely did at the end of that Benglas game to purposely lose that lead they had late, I would be livid.

In that same game, Dallas Clark literally let a defender take the ball right out of his arms. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I would love to watch that entire game, I only saw game clips because it was the biggest tank job I've ever seen. They've been doing this all year long to get Luck.

This is why the NFL has to have draft lottery and it's to protect against bull-shi& like this. Teams who tank aren't guaranteed that top pick. I think the NFL should have a TOP 5 lottery selection similar to the NBA to keep teams like the Colts wiping out the integrity of any game they play. The Colts have done this all year long. You'll notice that even if they get a 1st half lead, they'll always, always purposely piss it away in the second half, go back and look at their games this year, it's happened numerous times.

This is all Bill Polian, I don't blame the Colt players, they're only doing what they've been instructed to do.

The NFL is the best run league in the United States.

They have one area to borrow from the NBA, however, and that is the top of the draft.

Give all the teams that don't make the playoffs a lottery chance at #1, #2, etc.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You saw the play huh? Wasn't that one of the worst tank jobs you've ever seen? If I'm Goodell and witnessed what the Colts purposely did at the end of that Benglas game to purposely lose that lead they had late, I would be livid. In that same game, Dallas Clark literally let a defender take the ball right out of his arms. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I would love to watch that entire game, I only saw game clips because it was the biggest tank job I've ever seen. They've been doing this all year long to get Luck. This is why theNFL has to have draft lottery and it's to protect against bull-shi& like this. Teams who tank aren't guaranteed that top pick. I think theNFL should have a TOP 5 lottery selection similar to the NBA to keep teams like the Colts wiping out the integrity of any game they play. The Colts have done this all year long. You'll notice that even if they get a 1st half lead, they'll always, always purposely piss it away in the second half, go back and look at their games this year, it's happened numerous times. This is all Bill Polian, I don't blame the Colt players, they're only doing what they've been instructed to do.

That is a crock. Like most tin foil babble. Those players are playing for themselves and their remaining or next contract. Just like Dolphins players are now. The talent level and coaching in Indy are just so far below what they were perceived to be (sufficient) with Manning that they don't really have a shot at overcoming their deficits...and that is beginning to sink in and effect their play despite effort or intention...

The NBA lottery system is just one of the many bad ideas that has made their game one that wasn't even missed for the last 3 months...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

The talent level and coaching in Indy are just so far below what they were perceived to be (sufficient) with Manning that they don't really have a shot at overcoming their deficits..

You also cannot help but notice, however, that team management has no interest whatsoever in doing anything to even try to overcome their deficits- no trades before the deadline, many phantom injuries, no pursuit of available waived players, suspicious roster moves. The tanking/ game-throwing is driven by the team management, with the players being minor and mostly unwilling participants.

 

[Rob0729]

Let's face it. The only reason the Colts are relevant nationally is Peyton Manning. In fact, they are only relevant in Indiana because of Peyton Manning. The Colts are in a small market with a fair weather fan base. No one really cares about them without Manning.

Manning should actually be happy that he can't play this year. It only enhances his image and hides the probable truth that the Colts were not going to win more than 6 or 7 games with him. The Colts' problems go well beyond the loss of Manning.

I think Polian has gotten his fair share of criticism, but the simple fact is that other than watching them trying to "Suck for LucK' no one cares about them without Manning. They are the the Indianapolis Mannings, not the Indianapolis Colts.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You also cannot help but notice, however, that team management has no interest whatsoever in doing anything to even try to overcome their deficits- no trades before the deadline, many phantom injuries, no pursuit of available waived players, suspicious roster moves. The tanking/ game-throwing is driven by the team management, with the players being minor and mostly unwilling participants.

Polian would call what he's doing in the best interest of his organization long term... It is a business. The tickets were sold out this season (even though resale values have plummeted, that's not Polian's concern). He believes either a returning Manning or a drafted Luck will keep fannies in seats. He'd rather have his critics and the tin foilists focused on him deliberately tanking than asking the really hard questions like WTF were you thinking the last 3-4 years? What made you think your kid could just slide into your soon to be vacated seat like it's your family business? What happened to your so called genius? Was it all luck of the draw back in 1998?? No wonder you wanted out of the AFCE... You built a phony house of cards around Manning, and maybe patsfans were right that your only superbowl win came as a result of luck of the draw too... Maybe Dungy wasn't just a figurehead... Maybe he was just good enough as a DC and FO stabilizer to allow Manning to make chicken salad out of chicken **** and a couple of chunks of actual meat...

Believe me, Elway isn't crazy about being 5-5 at this juncture. Only Fox's ego won't allow him to lose gracefully and that damn Tebow is just charismatic enough to land you outside the top ten in draft picks and set you up for a continuing QB controversey... Caldwell landed his HC job by simply being a good soldier. Replacing him would seem to be a no brainer in Indy, but Polian will likely rationalize his performance because egoless yes men are hard to come by in this bottom line business and yet in certain instances (where the GM has enough ego for an entire organization) they are actually in demand (places like Dallas, SD, Indy, recently Cleveland where the GM sees himself as the true football genius and wants to insure others see that too...).

 

[shmessy]

The NBA lottery system is just one of the many bad ideas that has made their game one that wasn't even missed for the last 3 months...

I disagree.

There are hundreds of reasons why the NBA has problems. IMHO, the lottery system isn't one of them.

If you're going to throw a season, it has to COST you. The NBA lottery system penalizes teams by making it the cutoff to entering the playoffs. If you're going to throw a game, it will cost you a chance in the playoffs. And There is no "Suck for Luck" because the worst record does not guarantee the #1 pick.

The lottery system is something that works. In the NBA, it's playoffs or bust and you cannot automatically "gain" by losing.

 

[The_Riddler]

I disagree.

There are hundreds of reasons why the NBA has problems. IMHO, the lottery system isn't one of them.

If you're going to throw a season, it has to COST you. The NBA lottery system penalizes teams by making it the cutoff to enetering the playoffs. If you're going to throw a game, it will cost you a chance in the playoffs. And There is no "Suck for Luck" because the worst record does not guarantee the #1 pick.

Absolutely, even a Top 5 or Top 7 lottery in the NFL would eliminate the BS we're witnessing now out of Polian. If you look at the Colts schedule this season, it was one of the easiest schedules handed out this season. Look at the teams this Colt team has handed games too.

Losing one QB and having everything else in place has nothing to do with the lack of Colts talent, it has everything to do with a decision that Bill Polian made for the organization. That is why he's IR'd as many people as possible. This team knew the season and the playoffs were a long shot when PM went down and instead of atleast trying in their games like the Pats did when we lost TB, Polian didn't want to bother with Andrew Luck on the radar. Had this been last year or any other year (No Andrew Luck), Polian would have taken a different approach. The fact that Luck is supposed to be the next PM/TB made things different.