OT: Vernon Gholston - Boom, Bust and the Pats

[WhiZa]

Tim Couch, Akili Smith, David Klingler, Lawrence Phillps, Heath Shuler, Charles Rogers......


The draft busts road is littered with plenty, and this Buckeye is just another one who did not have fire and desire after he got his payday.

All of those guys at least scored a TD. Gholston did nothing more then make 1 tackle a game on average.


In Gholston's defense he should of never been put in a 3-4 at LB or DE. He was a pure 4-3 DE pass rushing specialist out of college. The Jets must of thought he could of made the transition being that he was also a very good athlete.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Biggest Bust Ever For The Pats is.....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Biggest Bust Ever For The Pats is.....

Sims' problems were injuries and sheer laziness. When he did play and was motivated, he was a force.

Eugene Chung and Chris Singleton are up there too on top 10, top 15 picks who flopped.

 

[mcsully]

Thats a silly conversation. Leaf was a huge bust because of his poor play. His legal issues came along afterwards.

Gholston's problem was that he stunk. He had talent. He demonstrated that at OSU. He has the physical tools. He just didn't develop pro-level technique and fundamentals that is takes to be successful in the pros.

I'm not sure how its a "silly" conversation when he was the # 6 pick in the draft and never recorded a sack. An educated discussion between two individuals who have 1st hand knowledge of the situation is rarely "silly"

VG will be known as a bust , but not as big as Leaf BECAUSE OF his legal issues. That stuff carried over and thats what the conversation was about..

I would agree, Gholston had talent at the college level and it never converted to the pro game. But the problem isn't his attiute or effort, like I wrote, it was his talent level

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not sure how its a "silly" conversation when he was the # 6 pick in the draft and never recorded a sack. An educated discussion between two individuals who have 1st hand knowledge of the situation is rarely "silly"

VG will be known as a bust , but not as big as Leaf BECAUSE OF his legal issues. That stuff carried over and thats what the conversation was about..

This is the quote.

2. He won't be considered as big of a bust as Leaf and Russell because they got in trouble with the law

Their opinion is no better than something you would hear on BSPN on something found on this board. That is why it is silly and not deserving mention. My point is that Leaf was a bust way before he decided to run from the law. Hypothetically, what if Gholston knocks over some coffee shops? Is he now more of a bust than Tony Mandarich? I don't think so.

Now if the legal woes came during the playing career, then that would have a direct impact on how the player's careeer is measured.

Look at Brandon Marshall. He is a legal nightmare. However he is a highly-productive legal nighmare.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Just my opinion but I think there are two reasons for Leaf being considered by many to be the biggest bust ever. First is the often repeated blowup he had towards a reporter in the Chargers' locker room. That video may be the only thing casual fans know about Leaf; it's certainly the first and most well-known thing about Leaf.

Second is because at the time he was drafted the debate was 'Leaf or Peyton Manning' with the first pick. Even if Leaf had been an average quarterback he still would have been declared a bust because he was forever going to be compared to Manning.

As far as legal issues go, I don't think that enters the picture. Most casual fans are probably unaware of those facts, or don't even recall them when Leaf's name comes up in conversation. His 'bust' label was already there, and would remain the same with or without those events.

In regards to Gholston, the missed bonus for one sack or fumble will be his legacy. Though he won't go down in history for being as big a bust as Russell or Leaf, he will be forever remembered as the guy who missed out on $9 million because he couldn't get just one sack or fumble on his stat sheet in three years. Whether that be due to lack of talent, lack of motivation, being in the wrong scheme or something else is besides the point.

Years from now the first thing that comes to people's mind will be something like this:
- Ryan Leaf: the hothead bust that the Colts almost took instead of Peyton Manning
- Vernon Gholston: the Jets' bust who lost out on a $9 million bonus when he couldn't get one sack in three years

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Though he won't go down in history for being as big a bust as Russell or Leaf, he will be forever remembered as the guy who missed out on $9 million because he couldn't get just one sack or fumble on his stat sheet in three years.

Just to be clear on this:

(A) He didn't have that incentive in his contract until this season.
(B) More importantly, if he had gotten just one sack, he STILL wouldn't have gotten that money: rather than giving him a $9M bonus this year, it would trigger an option bonus that would have been payable during the 2011 season. As someone on this board printed out, his agent was an absolute moron for getting Gholston to agree to this.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Serious questions:

Do you think for some of these guys their sucess was steroid induced and they failed when they came under more rigorous testing and had to drop the juice?

Are college drug testing programs less stringent than the pros?

A side note....my neighbor's son was a middle linebacker for a division 1 team. He was a little on the smalish side for the position, but was the starter. His coach told him he needed to put on some weight during the summer *wink, wink*. Some of his team mates put on 20 to 30 pounds during the summer by "working out a lot". My friends son refused to 'juice up'. He got to be the starter through hard work and had to compete against all the juicers.

It's pretty political. He could have come back for a 5th year, but they gave his scolarship to a younger kid. They said he could play, but he had to pay his own way.

Nice kid. Very bright. Graduated with an engineering degree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Serious questions:

Do you think for some of these guys their sucess was steroid induced and they failed when they came under more rigorous testing and had to drop the juice?

Are college drug testing programs less stringent than the pros?

A side note....my neighbor's son was a middle linebacker for a division 1 team. He was a little on the smalish side for the position, but was the starter. His coach told him he needed to put on some weight during the summer *wink, wink*. Some of his team mates put on 20 to 30 pounds during the summer by "working out a lot". My friends son refused to 'juice up'. He got to be the starter through hard work and had to compete against all the juicers.

It's pretty political. He could have come back for a 5th year, but they gave his scolarship to a younger kid. They said he could play, but he had to pay his own way.

Nice kid. Very bright. Graduated with an engineering degree.

I think Gholston had pretty much maxed his body out in college, while other players got to the pros and got quicker and stronger under an NFL training program. He was a man against boys in college, but a boy against men in the NFL.

 

[mcsully]

This is the quote.



Their opinion is no better than something you would hear on BSPN on something found on this board. That is why it is silly and not deserving mention. My point is that Leaf was a bust way before he decided to run from the law. Hypothetically, what if Gholston knocks over some coffee shops? Is he now more of a bust than Tony Mandarich? I don't think so.

Now if the legal woes came during the playing career, then that would have a direct impact on how the player's careeer is measured.

Look at Brandon Marshall. He is a legal nightmare. However he is a highly-productive legal nighmare.

Your right, their opinion is much like mine.. But generally opinions are based on facts or 1st hand knowledge. And unlike you and I, one of them played in the league and the second has ties to many people in the league.. So their opinion holds more weight, maybe not to you but in general it does..


I understand where you are coming from but the point is people remember leaf not only for his poor football play but his legal issues.. and what happens is people combine the two together.. And this was their point, in general VG won't be a bigger bust.. He was a well liked player and didn't get in trouble (after, during or b4)

 

[Off The Grid]

Biggest Bust Ever For The Pats is.....

God HELP me!! I actually remember where I WAS, the day we landed Sims!!

It was a Christmas gathering at some tangential relative of a relative's house, and my Bro and I were in the basement, watching us duke it out with the Colts for the #1 pick in the nation, who we already knew was gonna be Sims!!

The Ron Erhardt Patriots came up HUGE, that day, dropping The Toilet Bowl to the Colts, 23-21. As I remember, Tim Fox was PISSED!!

 

[RobertWeathers]

God HELP me!! I actually remember where I WAS, the day we landed Sims!!

It was a Christmas gathering at some tangential relative of a relative's house, and my Bro and I were in the basement, watching us duke it out with the Colts for the #1 pick in the nation, who we already knew was gonna be Sims!!

The Ron Erhardt Patriots came up HUGE, that day, dropping The Toilet Bowl to the Colts, 23-21. As I remember, Tim Fox was PISSED!!

I do a lot of travelling to TX and he hosts a U of T football radio show now. He had a issue with the power IIRC. Seems to have gotten his life on track.

"Game Day" Sims. Gawd.

 

[upstater1]

Sims broke his leg. Twice. Whatever his work ethic, he was IR'd 2 years in two separate seasons. He literally snapped his leg in half. Gruesome.

He deserved to be the #1 pick in the frat. Anyone who saw him play for Texas remembers a defender that was easily one of the top 5 DEs of the last 30 years. He was Reggie White. He was Bruce Smith. A freakin' monster.

He only gave the Patriots a couple of good seasons, but one of those seasons was indeed the 1986 Super Bowl year. And yes he was a real force that year.

I remember getting him and thinking the Patriots were on the way.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Remember the hype about Gholston too, I even think I started to wonder if we'd take him in the end.

His physique allowed him to bully the college game. When he found the NFL and met matches physically I guess he didn't have the brains or the desire to figure how to compete at that level.

 

[RayClay]

Biggest Bust Ever For The Pats is.....

Only because of his draft position. He was a decent run stopper at DE, but not worth the first pick.

He played 8 years in the league, but missed tme with injuries. As an older time Pats fan, I could come up with tons of worse draft picks, and you're comparing him to a guy who's done absolutely nothing.

He was a jerk and deserved the abuse he got, but 8 seasons is not a bust.

 

[BPF]

Only because of his draft position. He was a decent run stopper at DE, but not worth the first pick.

He played 8 years in the league, but missed tme with injuries. As an older time Pats fan, I could come up with tons of worse draft picks, and you're comparing him to a guy who's done absolutely nothing.

He was a jerk and deserved the abuse he got, but 8 seasons is not a bust.

You captured my thoughts perfectly.