OT: Sports science: Patriots please copy

[ausbacker]

Having just read the article, with the greatest respect to the OP, nothing in it is revolutionary. The performance will come from tailoring the treatments and programs to the specific player. The traditional one size fits all approach should have been thrown out years ago and I imagine, with the amount of money spent on sport, the high performance centers would be well aware of this.

 

[primetime]

While I'm sure there's ways to improve, there's nothing in soccer like a player slamming his helmet into your knee while your foot is planted, sending it in a direction a human knee just wasn't supposed to go.

 

[1960Pats]

Leicester City won the Premier League socker title? Get outta here...



Just kidding Mike.

 

[Kontradiction]

While I'm sure there's ways to improve, there's nothing in soccer like a player slamming his helmet into your knee while your foot is planted, sending it in a direction a human knee just wasn't supposed to go.

I don't know about that, man. Soccer is pretty hardcore...

 

[varjao]

I don't know about that, man. Soccer is pretty hardcore...

 

[Kontradiction]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

 

[borg]

Unless you don't read sports news at all, you'll probably know that the English Premier League was won this season by Leicester City. Since there is no draft or salary cap and financial differences between clubs are huge, this is by far the greatest upset in soccer history. At the beginning of the season, the betting odds were 5000-1.

This article makes clear that, though they did not have the money of the big clubs to spend on players, Leicester did everything they could to maximize those they had. In particular, their monitoring of training, use of cryotherapy and attention to diet led them to have the best injury record in the league.

Leicester City: The science behind their Premier League title

My guess is that they are way in front of what is going on in the NFL. Just the size of their sports science staff and the technology they are using seems to show it.

Injuries are inevitable in a violent game like football, but the number of Patriots players with soft tissue injuries (wide receivers with hamstring injuries and so on) tells me that there is a lot of room for improvement.

Mike…big BPL fan here who watches most Liverpool games but switched my attention to Leicester when Vardy was going off early in their season. Their season was one for the ages……but I have to say…..timing was everything. The big clubs were substandard this season and Leicester caught these teams during their lowest points early in the season. Hats off to Leicester for not only throttling the big boys but for not taking their foots off the gas when the pressure from their successes was greatest. No prevent defense for Leicester. What an underdog story?

As far as the fitness topic…..lets remember one important difference between futball players and football players…….weight. It is a necessity for NFL players to be substantially larger human beings than God intended carrying significantly more muscle (blubber for the trench fatties). The 50th percentile futballer is 5'11 and 170 lbs who needs the fitness to run/sprint for 5-7 miles over 90 minutes. The sports greatest player, Messi (IMHO), only weighs 147 lbs. Its apples to watermelons. Have these guys strap on on seven 1 gallon jugs of water and see how their soft tissue handles 50 extra pounds like the typical outside WR/S.
Don't get me wrong, I marvel at the fitness of these soccer players and the beatings their legs endure during their seemingly endless season. It is incredible the lack of ACL/MCL/blown achilles/etc……in all of soccer.

 

[DaBruinz]

So you're saying that the Pats shouldn't try and introduce new preventive sports medicine? I'm obviously not referring to the catastrophic injuries of Solder, Lewis, Blount, etc.

But the Pats saw plenty of "mild" knee injuries (among other injuries) that may have been preventable through either strengthening or stretching the supporting muscles around the knee. Obviously I'm not privy to the workout routines of the players, but a lot of these mild knee injuries seemed to occur on routine plays.

Sources:
ACSM | Articles
The Prevention of MCL Injuries | LIVESTRONG.COM
The Complete Guide to MCL Injuries

It's amazing how you make such a ridiculous assumption. No where did I say anything about not introducing "new preventative sports medicine". What I said is that there is no stretch that can prevent catastrophic injuries. Injuries such as broken bones, torn knee ligaments, torn pectoral muscles.

If there were, we would never see those injuries again because people would be doing them.

If the Strength and Conditioning Staff was such a problem, then they'd have canned he entire group, not just Nash. Yet, they didn't.

Through week 6, only Trey Flowers was listed on the Injury Report with a knee injury.
Week 7 - Matthew Slater, Shaq Mason
Week 8 - Shaq Mason
Week 9 - Edelman, Sheard, Mason, Wendell
Week 10 - Edelman, Harmon, Mason
Week 11 - Tre Jackson, Mason
Week 12 - Amendola, Gronkowski, Jackson, Mike Williams
Week 13 - Amendola, Chandler, Gronkowski, Hightower, Williams
Week 14 - Amendola, Chandler, Gronkowski, Hightower, Williams
Week 15 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower,
Week 16 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower,
Week 17 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower.

The Hightower injury wasn't a routine play. #85 from the Broncos cut block Dont'a and then Dont'a had Chung come down with his elbow on Hightower's knee.

Gronkowski went down in that same game and everyone thought he was done for the year with how Gronk was writhing in pain on the ground. The Broncos defender went low on him and at his knees.

Scott Chandler has a chronic knee condition. Turns out the Pats knew about it when they signed him.

So, I'm trying to understand where you get that these injuries occurred on "routine plays", when they actually didn't.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Interesting analysis of NFL injuries:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | NFL Injuries Part I: Overall View
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | NFL Injuries Part II: Variation Over Time
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | NFL Injuries Part III: Variation by Position and Age
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | NFL Injuries Part IV: Variation by Position

And this piece on Stanford's training program is of interest too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...inct-training-regimen-redefines-strength.html

 

[Simple Jack's Brother]

It's amazing how you make such a ridiculous assumption. No where did I say anything about not introducing "new preventative sports medicine". What I said is that there is no stretch that can prevent catastrophic injuries. Injuries such as broken bones, torn knee ligaments, torn pectoral muscles.

If there were, we would never see those injuries again because people would be doing them.

If the Strength and Conditioning Staff was such a problem, then they'd have canned he entire group, not just Nash. Yet, they didn't.

Through week 6, only Trey Flowers was listed on the Injury Report with a knee injury.
Week 7 - Matthew Slater, Shaq Mason
Week 8 - Shaq Mason
Week 9 - Edelman, Sheard, Mason, Wendell
Week 10 - Edelman, Harmon, Mason
Week 11 - Tre Jackson, Mason
Week 12 - Amendola, Gronkowski, Jackson, Mike Williams
Week 13 - Amendola, Chandler, Gronkowski, Hightower, Williams
Week 14 - Amendola, Chandler, Gronkowski, Hightower, Williams
Week 15 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower,
Week 16 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower,
Week 17 - Amendola, Chandler, Hightower.

The Hightower injury wasn't a routine play. #85 from the Broncos cut block Dont'a and then Dont'a had Chung come down with his elbow on Hightower's knee.

Gronkowski went down in that same game and everyone thought he was done for the year with how Gronk was writhing in pain on the ground. The Broncos defender went low on him and at his knees.

Scott Chandler has a chronic knee condition. Turns out the Pats knew about it when they signed him.

So, I'm trying to understand where you get that these injuries occurred on "routine plays", when they actually didn't.

There were plenty of other soft tissue injuries as well, including hamstring issues and abdominal tweaks. Just looking at a random week, let's take week 7; 45% of our injuries were either soft tissue or knee related. In week 12, of the 14 injured players, 10 had the nature of their injuries listed, and 50% of those listed were knee or soft tissue injuries. All I'm saying is some of these MAY have been preventable. I agree there were plenty of injuries of the catastrophic nature, but there's always room for improvement.

INJURIES FOR WEEK 7
Name Position Injury Practice Status Game Status
Brandon Bolden RB Hamstring Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Marcus Cannon T Toe Did Not Participate In Practice Out
Trey Flowers DE Shoulder Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Dont'a Hightower LB Ribs Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Rufus Johnson LB Illness Did Not Participate In Practice Out
Josh Kline G Shoulder Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Dion Lewis RB Abdomen Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Keshawn Martin WR Hamstring Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Shaquille Mason G Knee Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Jabaal Sheard DE Ankle Did Not Participate In Practice Out
Matt Slater WR Knee Limited Participation in Practice Questionable

INJURIES FOR WEEK 12
Name Position Injury Practice Status Game Status
Danny Amendola WR Knee Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Alan Branch DT Elbow Limited Participation in Practice Probable
Marcus Cannon T Toe Limited Participation in Practice Probable
Justin Coleman CB Hand Did Not Participate In Practice Out
Jamie Collins LB Illness Limited Participation in Practice Doubtful
Aaron Dobson WR -- Did Not Participate In Practice --
Julian Edelman WR Foot Did Not Participate In Practice Out
Tre' Jackson G Knee Limited Participation in Practice Probable
Chandler Jones DE Abdomen Limited Participation in Practice Probable
Keshawn Martin WR Hamstring Limited Participation in Practice Questionable
Shaquille Mason G -- Limited Participation in Practice --
Matt Slater WR -- Did Not Participate In Practice --
Sebastian Vollmer T -- Limited Participation in Practice --
Michael Williams TE Knee Limited Participation in Practice Questionable

 

[Jackson 2]

Krafty BoB probably has the ocean state job lot of medical staffs....

Hey, if you want to get all over Kraft for his handling of Deflate-gate, have at it. But, every piece of evidence I've ever seen indicates that the team doesn't go cheapo on staffing, facilities, amenities, etc. In fact, the opposite is true. I'm also strongly guessing that Belichick is responsible for the medical staffing, not Kraft

 

[mihap]

How do you blame training staff, for all those injuries?? This board has gone through this before, in Football you have a lot of injuries, ... not sure if you understand how the Patriots work, it is based on next man up and meritocracy, so if the new guy was ready he assumed the position.

When Mike Woicik was here, considered one of the best all time, we had injuries also.

My theory, not in the NFL's interest, is that when a team plays an 18 or 19 game season that ends in February, there are always a disproportionate number of injuries the next year for that team, as the body has a shorter time to recover..

They draft some injured players likr Gronk, Ras I, etc, sometimes player works for them sometimes not,
injuries like someone falling on your leg and hits in the knee, but i think some injuries like hammy is on the conditioning stuff, teaching players how to train, eat and things to prevent things like this...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

My theory, not in the NFL's interest, is that when a team plays an 18 or 19 game season that ends in February, there are always a disproportionate number of injuries the next year for that team, as the body has a shorter time to recover..

BB himself noted that after the 2008 season: it was disappointing not to be in the playoffs, but it meant a chance for more rest than they'd had in years.

 

[NormZauchin]

Unless you don't read sports news at all, you'll probably know that the English Premier League was won this season by Leicester City. Since there is no draft or salary cap and financial differences between clubs are huge, this is by far the greatest upset in soccer history. At the beginning of the season, the betting odds were 5000-1.

This article makes clear that, though they did not have the money of the big clubs to spend on players, Leicester did everything they could to maximize those they had. In particular, their monitoring of training, use of cryotherapy and attention to diet led them to have the best injury record in the league.

Leicester City: The science behind their Premier League title

My guess is that they are way in front of what is going on in the NFL. Just the size of their sports science staff and the technology they are using seems to show it.

Injuries are inevitable in a violent game like football, but the number of Patriots players with soft tissue injuries (wide receivers with hamstring injuries and so on) tells me that there is a lot of room for improvement.

Doesn' t playing in the snow at Gillette qualify as cryotherapy?

 

[Mike the Brit]

To those who read the article and responded: thanks very much. To those who didn't read the article but responded ...

Sure, there are big differences between football and soccer, and, yes, injuries will happen -- and there are bound to be more collision injuries in football.

But note that the article isn't just about injury prevention. It's also about injury recovery and performance maximization. What you have to do for each sport is different, but the willingness to apply modern research and thinking should be common to both.

Oddly enough, the most advanced training seems to be a combination of two things. There is the high-tech stuff like cryotherapy and GPS vests and sophisticated videography with computer analysis of movement, heart rate, etc. But there is also quite a big input from non-Western, traditional body culture -- yoga, various martial arts and so on. We can see that with Brady's guy, Guerrero.

I have a yoga teacher and personal trainer who combines yoga with martial arts, parkour, dance, circus arts and god-knows-what-all-else (he's also been a Tough Mudder competitor). He was recently in Europe to train with one of the world's most celebrated UFC fighters. Believe me, guys like that don't buy fashionable BS. Their bodies and a huge amount of money are on the line. But they want an edge wherever they can find it. It's my guess that Brady is just the same.

I see three themes.

First, there's awareness that training can be damaging. Of course, you can't build up strength and stamina without pushing yourself, but just pushing and pushing your body to its limits in two-a-days, wind sprints and so on won't give you the best results. It's a good way to prove to coaches that you have "grit" and determination, but it may not be helping your body.

Second, training must be appropriate. Everyone now realizes that pumping iron and running sprints doesn't fit you for the real athletic performances you need, but finding training for the kind of co-ordination that you need -- being strong and balanced when you are subject to physical situations outside your control or ability to predict -- is not easy. It's here, I guess, that the way-out Eastern stuff my friend has spent his life practising has value.

Finally, conditioning athletes is 24/7 throughout the year. Just because you shouldn't overtrain doesn't mean that you can do anything when you're not training. Partying during the off-season and then punishing yourself in the gym is the wrong the way to go. There are lots of relaxation and recovery activities that can help complement your explosive training.

Soccer doesn't really have an off-season any more (top players are likely as not involved in international tournaments when not playing for their clubs) so they have to make sure that there is recovery during the season. And they control everything -- exercise, rest and diet. Real Madrid even have a sleep coach (insert lame siesta joke here) which sounds crazy until you realize how much time a top athlete needs to spend asleep to recover from intense performance.

I think that all of those themes carry over potentially into the NFL and the teams that can do that will get an edge.

 

[Canuck]

We will probably have to wait until Brady retires and focuses on TB12 full time. It seems to work for Brady, maybe it can work for others.