OT: Refs blow it again in Eagles/Cowboys game

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

ProFootballTalk.com - COWBOYS COULDN’T HAVE RECOVERED THE BALL

COWBOYS COULDN’T HAVE RECOVERED THE BALL
Posted by Mike Florio on September 16, 2008, 11:26 a.m.
Appearing on Tuesday’s Dan Patrick Show, NFL director of officiating Mike Pereira explained that the Dallas Cowboys could not have recovered the loose ball that receiver DeSean Jackson discarded as he was on the doorstep of the end zone during Monday night’s game.

The outcome, then, is the same as it was on Sunday between the Chargers and the Broncos. The ball was dead when it hit the ground.

The key is that, in Jackson’s case, the ruling is that he was throwing a backward pass. By rule, the review of the touchdown call resulted in the ball being down where it landed.

The point here, then, is that the officials screwed up as badly as Jackson. None of them noticed that Jackson had dropped the ball before he was in the end zone.

Moving forward, the question is whether the rule will change. Pereira explained that, when the down-by-contact rule was changed to permit efforts to recover a loose ball after the whistle, the owners considered applying the same rule to the Hochuli situation, where a fumble was ruled an incomplete pass. Pereira said that, because the ball will bounce more freely in such situations, a decision was made not to allow the action to continue after the whistle.

That’s fine, but unless and until the officials are trained to err on the side of not blowing the whistle, fairness requires a procedure that allows teams who have forced turnover to enjoy the benefit of their efforts.

ProFootballTalk.com - MONDAY NIGHT GAFFE NO DIFFERENT THAN HOCHULI CALL

MONDAY NIGHT GAFFE NO DIFFERENT THAN HOCHULI CALL
Posted by Mike Florio on September 16, 2008, 8:52 p.m.
Although referee Ed Hochuli continues to receive plenty of criticism for his outcome-altering error during Sunday’s game between the Chargers and the Broncos, his mistake is no different than the blunder made on Monday night by the officials who determined that Eagles receiver DeSean Jackson had crossed the goal line with the ball in his possession when he hadn’t.

And we’re not really surprised by news that Hochuli will be “downgraded” for his error. That’s simply the way it works. Each week, officials are graded based on their performances. The best get plum postseason assignments. The worst get fired.

In Hochuli’s case, he’d be relegated to one of the various non-referee officiating roles before he’d be fired. Neither is likely to occur. NFL officiating czar Mike Pereira made clear during Tuesday’s Dan Patrick Show that Hochuli is safe.

 

[jmt57]

I don't follow the logic that the ball was dead when it hit the ground because the ruling was that it was a backwards pass. Huh? Am I missing something, but since when did a backwards pass (lateral) become a dead ball when it hit the ground? Do that on any other play when you're attempting a flea flicker or screen pass or returning a kickoff, and it's a live ball, which the defense can recover and return.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not buying that explanation; sounds more like somebody trying to cya after either a quick whistle or the wrong call.

 

[ICSB]

People need to stop complaining all the time and just sit back and enjoy the games.

Blown calls are bound to happen at times and if you are on the side with the lucky breaks than good for you.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Well I don't understand how they could have awarded the ball to Dallas. Is there proof that Dallas players went and picked up the ball once Desean dropped it? Does anyone even know what happened to the ball?

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

People need to stop complaining all the time and just sit back and enjoy the games.

Blown calls are bound to happen at times and if you are on the side with the lucky breaks than good for you.

It wasn't the blown call, but it was DeSean Jackson pulling that boneheaded stunt, which wasn't the first time he's done it in his football career.

IF the refs had called it correctly, then he wouldn't have made it back to Philly alive.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Well I don't understand how they could have awarded the ball to Dallas. Is there proof that Dallas players went and picked up the ball once Desean dropped it? Does anyone even know what happened to the ball?

No-even if Pacman had went to recover it, the rulebook says once the whistle blows signaling a touchdown...here's the tricky part that's hard to understand...IF the replay shows he ended up fumbling/backward lateralling it before the ball hit the plane, then the ball gets spotted at the place where he fumbled/backward lateralled it, and gets awarded to the team who's player that did this.

Does anyone else get this?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

No-even if Pacman had went to recover it, the rulebook says once the whistle blows signaling a touchdown...here's the tricky part that's hard to understand...IF the replay shows he ended up fumbling/backward lateralling it before the ball hit the plane, then the ball gets spotted at the place where he fumbled/backward lateralled it, and gets awarded to the team who's player that did this.

Does anyone else get this?

Wow, dumb rule. That needs to be addressed immediately if thats the correct interpretation.

 

[jmt57]

I totally understand - and agree - that the play ends when the ref blows his whistle. In fact, I disagree with the down-by-contact rule that allows for a possession change after the whistle has blown, because it rewards a player who ignores the whistle while penalizing a player who does what he is supposed to do, let up and stop when he hears the whistle.

I would have thought that after the Denver - San Diego game the refs would not be quite so quick with the whistle on plays where there was any doubt as to whether or not play should continue. I'd rather let them have the play continue and sort it out afterwards than have a quick whistle end the play before it should be over.

 

[jbb9s]

There are some serious negative things with allowing a play to stand that occurs after the whistle blows. Can you imagine - its the perfect excuse for every late hit.

Also, can someone explain why things like pass interference isn't reviewable. This is the penalty where the most yardage is yielded.........whats the deal?

 

[Wildo7]

The error was in the whistling a TD initially. Once the TD was whistled, all players are instructed to stop play. You can't punish the players that stopped by awarding the ball to whoever happened to pick it up and you can't speculate who should have come up with it so the only fair thing is to give it back to the team that fumbled at the spot they fumbled it.

I said this in the Broncos-Chargers thread and I'll say it here; plays that are close need to be allowed to play out with no whistles, even if the refs instinct is that it's a TD or an incomplete pass. That is the only way to ensure that human error in making split second judgments can be reversed by seeing what would have happened. There would be no damage done here if the ref thought the ball broke the plane but did not signal the TD, allowed the play to continue as if it were a live ball and then review it after and rule it a TD.

 

[SVN]

I totally understand - and agree - that the play ends when the ref blows his whistle. In fact, I disagree with the down-by-contact rule that allows for a possession change after the whistle has blown, because it rewards a player who ignores the whistle while penalizing a player who does what he is supposed to do, let up and stop when he hears the whistle.

I would have thought that after the Denver - San Diego game the refs would not be quite so quick with the whistle on plays where there was any doubt as to whether or not play should continue. I'd rather let them have the play continue and sort it out afterwards than have a quick whistle end the play before it should be over.

i think the pats/BB were against this rule change if i remember correctly and BB specifically outlined issues playing through the whistle or something like that i dont remember exactly.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The major ref mistake was that bogus PI penalty against the Cows that gave the Birds a 1st and goal. The Birdie grabbed the defender and caused all the contact.

 

[Pats726]

Is there a video link to the play?? Just wondered...

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

The key here is why are these whistles being blown so quickly?

In the Denver game, don't blow the whistle and if it was incomplete, replay will show that.

It's almost like they are traumatized by the "tuck rule".

 

[Mike the Brit]

The major ref mistake was that bogus PI penalty against the Cows that gave the Birds a 1st and goal. The Birdie grabbed the defender and caused all the contact.

I totally agree: that was an awful, awful call.

As for the DeSean Jackson play:

The rule that the ball is dead when the whistle blows is obviously right.

Should the official have blown the whistle for a touchdown? Well, on review it was clearly right that the ball had not quite crossed the goal-line.

Was that a reasonable mistake for a referee to make? Absolutely. That's football and that's why you have video review.

This is a perfect example of why Florio is such an ass. Sometimes in the past he has managed to identify really serious issues that the NFL hasn't wanted discussed (for example, Michael Vick's dog-fighting) but he loses all credibility when he shows no ability to discriminate between minor matters like this and major ones.

 

[sieglo]

Is there a video link to the play?? Just wondered...

+1. I haven't seen it yet, largely because I refuse to watch ESPN.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

No-even if Pacman had went to recover it, the rulebook says once the whistle blows signaling a touchdown...here's the tricky part that's hard to understand...IF the replay shows he ended up fumbling/backward lateralling it before the ball hit the plane, then the ball gets spotted at the place where he fumbled/backward lateralled it, and gets awarded to the team who's player that did this.

Does anyone else get this?

I think it is a great rule and should not be changed.

In the case of the Denver-SD game, the mistake was the ref blowing the play dead. I don't know what he saw, but a ref should be 95+% sure that it was an incomplete pass before blowing the whistle. Better to let the play ensue and then make your ruling and let the review clear it up.

In the case of the Dallas-Philly game, I think the correct thing happened. It looked like he scored the TD, so the play was dead. PERIOD. Then the replay showed that the player was an idiot and let the ball go before crossing the plane. In that case, it makes sense that the same team is given back the ball where it landed for a chance to score. No one could have played the ball, because once the TD was awarded, the play was dead.

I say leave it alone.

 

[bakes781]

The error was in the whistling a TD initially. Once the TD was whistled, all players are instructed to stop play. You can't punish the players that stopped by awarding the ball to whoever happened to pick it up and you can't speculate who should have come up with it so the only fair thing is to give it back to the team that fumbled at the spot they fumbled it.

I said this in the Broncos-Chargers thread and I'll say it here; plays that are close need to be allowed to play out with no whistles, even if the refs instinct is that it's a TD or an incomplete pass. That is the only way to ensure that human error in making split second judgments can be reversed by seeing what would have happened. There would be no damage done here if the ref thought the ball broke the plane but did not signal the TD, allowed the play to continue as if it were a live ball and then review it after and rule it a TD.

ITA. Also I think another way to help refs, albeit a drastic measure, would be to alter the color of the footballs to something more bright & therefore make them more visible. I grant you the idea of football players running around with a bright pink ball in their arms is a bit odd at 1st lol but it could help alleviate these premature whistles.

 

[PrairiePat]

If a play is blown dead and is later reviewed to show a fumble, why not coin flip for possession at the spot? That's pretty much what a fumble is, anyhow, it's mostly the luck of the bounce which determines who gets the ball.

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

It wasn't the blown call, but it was DeSean Jackson pulling that boneheaded stunt, which wasn't the first time he's done it in his football career.

IF the refs had called it correctly, then he wouldn't have made it back to Philly alive.

he needs to stop being an idiot and play the game right