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OT: Priest Uncovering The Beginnings Of Nazi Final Solution

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It's a tragedy, but why is so much media emphasis placed over dead Jews, when 20+ Million Russians and Chinese died during the war, not to mention millions of gypsies?
     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I guess only an arse would see them as being the same. Were the Russians and Chinese told they were going to take a shower, only to be choked to death with poisonous gas? Were they lined up in front of a huge hole (mass grave) and methodically machine-gunned to death...only to fall into their pre-dug graves.

    Were they rounded up systematically and singled out of the population they lived in? Were they starved to death in frikkn' CAMPS?

    Yeah, right Mav, they were EXACTLY the same. I agree, I have no idea why PFiVA is only bringing up the way Jews were exterminated in WWII.

    Good point.:rolleyes:

    You're becoming more and more of an arse....hole everyday.

    Your parents really must have done a number on you as a child.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have you ever seen the newsreels of the Japanese soldiers slaughtering Chinese women & children, they were playing with the little babies right in front of their mothers, they were throwing the babies up in the air and catching them on their Bayonets then they would kill the mother.

    One of mans favorite passtimes is killing each other, I must be mentally retarded because my favorite passtime was "drinking & fornicating".

    EARS, we all have them, some are larger than others.
     
  5. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    PR is really just a product of American media conditioning.

    Guy has NO CLUE the horrors that 10 times more Russians, gypsies, and Chinese experienced during the war... 50+ million dead in some of the most horrifying and grotesque ways to die.

    I already said dead Jews were a tragedy, and I have been to see concentration camps in person, but why are we constantly bombarded by only stories of dead Jews when way more other people died in that war?

    The fact that PR downplays the deaths of other non-Jews shows just how powerful he's been conditioned.
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    No Mav...it's the way you said "why is so much media emphasis placed over dead Jews"...you may well have just said "why are we talking about a bunch of dead Jews..."

    Most people would have phrased it more like "why is there so much emphasis place on the Jews that were murdered and not...."

    If you don't see it, you're just lying. WWII and Nazi Germany was all about ethnic cleansing and their dream of an Arian Nation rising to world power.

    GERMANY, Hitler and the Nazi party have always been the focus of the history of WWII. If you can't figure out why, then I can't help you. If you can't admit you have a problem with Israel and Jews, you're in denial or at least you lack the courage to come right out and say it.

    I've been a fairly liberal democrat all my life but one thing that has always kept me from leaning further left is the anti-American, anti-Jew attitudes and beliefs of the far left...it's just amazing and disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The SAVAGERY of the Japanese Soldier:
    I had a very close boyhood friend who died in this March, his Mother hung herself in 1948 in the cellar of a house on Pearl St in Cambridge Mass.

    Todays American should go their knees and thank their God that these bastards didn't win the war.

    When Truman dropped the bomb we danced in the streets.

    The Bataan Death March:
    The march, involving the forcible transfer of 76,000 American and Filipino prisoners of war[1] captured by the Japanese in the Philippines from the Bataan peninsula to prison camps, was characterized by wide-ranging physical abuse and murder, and resulted in very high fatalities inflicted upon the prisoners and civilians along the route by the armed forces of the Empire of Japan. Beheadings, cut throats and casual shootings were the more common and merciful actions — compared to bayonet stabbings, rapes, disembowelments, numerous rifle butt beatings and a deliberate refusal to allow the prisoners food or water while keeping them continually marching for nearly a week (for the slowest survivors) in tropical heat. Falling down, unable to continue moving was tantamount to a death sentence, as was any degree of protest or expression of displeasure.
    Bataan Death March - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  8. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    PR you are probably not even aware that the Nazis killed millions of civilians besides Jews during the war. 50+ Million civilians died who were not Jewish but they barely get any sort of proportional coverage when it comes to WWII or the Nazis.

    Pick up a book sometime, instead of sounding like an Average American Joe completely influenced by the school books and media you consume.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Save me the time Mav and break it down for us. Show me a list of the concentration camps these people were put into along with the ethnic origins of those in each of these camps. Or are you counting the little towns and hamlets the Germans marched into and slaughtered innocent people?
     
  10. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Maybe you did say it was a tragedy but posts sympathetic to Jews sure seems to get you all riled up.
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    So as I understand it, Maverick, you would like to silence discussion of the Holocaust? Or would you like those who specifically have an interest in its anti-semitic aspect to self-censor? We won't, by the way.

    As to the particular targets of the Holocaust -- which does not refer to civilians killed ancillary to military attacks, but to those rounded up and murdered systematically, in cold blood. Of the populations you mentioned, only the Romany (Gypsies) were accorded similar treatment.

    Does this mean that one should not tell the untold stories of Gays, Gypsies, Political Dissenters, victims of the Japanese in the rape of Nanking (or in other atrocities,) victims of the civilian-targeted carpet-bombing of Dresden or Tokyo, or the atomic bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

    Of course not. And I promise you, Maverick, were you to highlight such a study in a thread here, I would not comment on how we accord "too much attention" to those murders.

    It looks to me, rather, that you have a vested interest in minimizing the enormous impact of the Holocaust on the Jews of Europe, and on worldwide Jewry.

    Why is this?

    PFnV
     
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    You know why PFiVA...I know why...and the entire board knows why. He just lacks the courage to come out and admit it. There is nothing sadder than a man who speaks boldly and consistently against something, but lacks the courage to admit the source of his rantings.

    It is easy for all of us to see that Mav has deep-seated anger & hatred...but why?
     
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I'm not trying to silence anything. I have seen the horrors of the concentration camps firsthand, and I'm not saying that it never happened, or even saying that it was impossible for 6 million Jews to have died as the Holocaust deniers try to claim.

    But it happened 50 years ago. Not only did 50+M other civilians and gypsies die in gruesome deaths during WWII, but many millions more have died in the 50 years since in various wars and genocides on different continents.

    Yet if one were to look at which deaths get more coverage, WHY is it that volumes upon volumes of books must be written about SPECIFICALLY Jews dying, at the exclusion of the hundreds of millions of other innocent civilians who have been massacred in the past 50 years?

    The completely disproportionate coverage over Jewish deaths is reflected in Average Joe's like PR, who nonchalantly could care less that other civilians have died. Look at PR's posts concerning Palestinians. The guy is a complete media lemming.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    If you don't know the answer to that question, then you're beyond help.

    You need to remember you're just an average Joe yourself Mav. You "believe" that you're an original thinker. But your thought process can be categorized and boxed just as easily as mine. You really do believe you're an unique individual, don't you Mav? But you're just another bozo on the bus just like everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The biggest difference between us PR, is I'm not willing to put Israel before America, as you and other brainwashed people have been conditioned to think is okay.
     
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Well, you're wrong on that Mav. I actually get frustrated with our blanket support of Israel...many times as a matter of fact. I would never support sending US troops to defend Israel if they foolishly got themselves into a multi-national war in the middle east...NEVER.

    I do not support a policy of "Israel must exist at all costs". But I do support Israel's effort to exist. I support US policy that protects that right and I would support military assistance and sending US troops if Israel were attacked.

    I just would not support an Israeli offensive attack upon any nation. At least to the point that we would send troops in support of such an attack.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    OK well that's reassuring to know, sorry to snap back at you.

    I think peace in the Middle East would become reality one year after we stopped giving Israel tons of high tech weapons, billions in financial welfare, and our pledge to bail them out with our thousands of nuclear warheads. It would force Israel to actually want to negotiate with its neighbors and stop starving the Palestinians.
     
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    We're in stressful times Mav and I'm as guilty as you are...so no need to apologize. Although I appreciate the fact that you did.

    It seems our stress is causing us to focus on our differences rather than our commonality. I guess I need to be more aware of my own anger and frustration. That being said, I also apologize to you for not allowing you to express your beliefs freely.

    I think I should probably butt out of the Middle East (arab/israeli) threads as my background on the topic is more emotionally based than intellectual. I'm really tiring of world news lately and I'm allowing it to wear me down.

    I think I need a vacation.
     
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Not unique but rather aware of the rest of the world's opinions pertaining to their own histories. I'm pretty sure South Americans would agree on my worldview pertaining to US history in South America. I'm pretty sure the entire rest of the world except for America would agree with me that Israel is out of bounds in recent actions.

    Crazy zionists would have us believe that for *some reason* the ENTIRE world and UN are anti-semitic and secretly hate Israel except for America, which is the biggest baloney I've ever heard. My view on this isn't unique, the entire rest of the world is not anti-semitic. Only crazy zionists would have people believe that so that they never have to take account of their actions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've studied the Holocaust fairly extensively, and never have a read a book of serious scholarship on the subject that does not also treat Nazi actions toward political dissenters, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and developmentally challenged/mentally ill individuals. All are also routinely treated in the press as well.

    It cannot be escaped, however, that the rhetorical vitriol and the lion's share of this particular bizarre historical tragedy at the hands of the Nazis, was consistently directed against Jews.

    As I write this I am well aware that you will likely attempt a proof that Nazis had no special animus against the Jews; it is a free country. Knock yourself out.

    As I have noted previously in this thread, nobody differs with the fact that an enormous number of civilians died during World War II.

    When we discuss the Holocaust, however, we discuss a particular sub-set of those non-combatants deaths: Those hunted down only because of what they were, with the intent (and largely the result) that their entire people be murdered.

    There are idiots that do not think that this particular treatment bears any special examination. I am not one of them. I think you will have difficulty in finding a groundswell of support of the notion that the murders of 6 million Jews, comprising two thirds of European Jewry, is not especially striking. Were two-thirds of all Soviets killed? Two-thirds of all Chinese? Was there a plan to do so? No. This was a sui generis in the already blood-soaked history of the war. It was quite simply the worst genocide in history.

    The treatment of the Chinese populace under the Japanese, the occupied Poles and Russians under the Nazis, the civilians of Germany and Japan under American bombsights, differed from the treatment of Jews (and perhaps Roma) under the Nazis by kind as well as degree.

    Do you really not know the answer to your question? Then I'll provide it. The Holocaust was arguably the single worst thing that ever happened - to anybody.

    Do I want to even have that argument? HELL no. Suffering is suffering. Competitive suffering is a losing proposition, after all. Precisely because Jews are not particularly interested in establishing themselves as all-world martyrs, Jews founded the Yishuv in what became Israel -- and this was in response to genocidal actions prior to the Holocaust ever being planned. There has always been a perverse interest among the peoples of the West -- whether theological or political -- in the disappearance of world Jewry.

    Now the expression of that distaste for Jewry takes the conveniently excuseable form of dismissal of the Holocaust's importance, minimizing of the historic facts of the Holocaust, various hostile stances vis a vis Israel, etc.

    You don't hate the Jew next door, you just don't want him -- or others -- to tell his story. You don't want his history to have "too much" prominence. You don't want, above all, to confront the millenia-long complicity of your own forebears in that history, nor the inconvenient "coincidence" of religion and politics being so inextricably bound up in the fate of a single people.

    It's all very inconvenient, and very counter to what "should" be the case: the irrelevance of the texts of Judaism and Christianity; the perfect homogeneity of suffering along ethnic lines that one would assume would proceed from a homogeneously wicked world; perhaps the precedence of socioeconomic class over any other factor in said wickedness.

    This inconvenience has resulted on the blaming of world Jewry for everything and its opposite: international communism, international capitalism, pig-headed anti-internationalism. Jews are at once elitist and consumed with undermining the elites, at once ultranationalist and ultra-internationalist.

    The "code" struggles -- opposition to things connected with Jewry and Judaism -- tend to emanate from the same sources with regularity.

    Ask yourself this, Maverick:

    Could the problem be not with our society's fascination with things Jewish, but with your fascination?

    It would seem to be at least as valid a question.

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009

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