OT: Michael Vick suspended INDEFINATELY by the NFL

[MoLewisrocks]

I wish Vick had never done this. Nobody wins. The guy had the world on a string and could not conduct himself in a "Legal" manner.

I do think if he takes his punishment and changes his behavior for good he should get another chance. I agree with the poster above about Ray Lewis and Leonard Little getting chances after people getting killed. Let's not forget Ray obstructed justice in a double murder.

He's already not really taking his punishment though, is he, nor is he ever going to change his behavior because at the end of the day the difference between what he and the other players you site did is Vick is a sociopath. He has no conscience. Anything he does now will not be due to remorse for anyone or anything other than Michael Vick getting caught.

Times change, and some of you Leonard Little bashers 9 years after the incident, need grasp that the league is changing with the times. The justice system struggles to deal with certain crimes, drunk driving being one of them. He was sentenced to 90 days for manslaughter because juries struggle with the issue of intent in DUI related fatality cases. He was arrested 6 years later for another DUI, but that jury acquitted him, as they all too often do. Not sure what Tagliabue could have or should have done back in the day, but I guarantee you Goodell would have dealt with the situation differently had both offenses occured in the same decade on his watch.

Ray pled down to a misdemeanor and was sentenced to no jail time for good reason. The prosecution in that case always knew he had no direct involvement in the assaults, just knowledge of them as a witness in what was essentially a post bar room brawl. His mistake, which he eventually acknowledged, was in telling his associates to keep their mouths shut and in giving the police misleading information when first questioned. And as it turned out, they were unable to convict Ray's associates or anyone else involved, either. How people can't see the difference between those isolated acts, regardless of outcome, and Vicks' intentional continuous long term illegal and immoral behavior is just beyond me. Still, had it happened today I think Goodell would have dealt with Ray harshly under the new NFLPA approved Personal Conduct Policy that DID NOT EXIST in 2000. In fact it was the cases of Ray Lewis and Ray Carruth and Mark Chamura that led the league to begin refining it's personal conduct policy. It was a long slow process because they made the mistake of focusing their efforts on prevention rather than punishment, and that likely led to where we are today. Many of these players don't understand anything short of a punishment that takes away their ability to play this game on the field.

Two wrongs don't make a right no matter how much some of you seem to want them to. And in case some of you hadn't figured this out yet, life comes with no guarantee it will be fair.

 

[AirForcePatFan]

Good... I'm pleased...

 

[SmokeShowin]

He's already not really taking his punishment though, is he, nor is he ever going to change his behavior because at the end of the day the difference between what he and the other players you site did is Vick is a sociopath. He has no conscience. Anything he does now will not be due to remorse for anyone or anything other than Michael Vick getting caught.

Times change, and some of you Leonard Little bashers 9 years after the incident, need grasp that the league is changing with the times. The justice system struggles to deal with certain crimes, drunk driving being one of them. He was sentenced to 90 days for manslaughter because juries struggle with the issue of intent in DUI related fatality cases. He was arrested 6 years later for another DUI, but that jury acquitted him, as they all too often do. Not sure what Tagliabue could have or should have done back in the day, but I guarantee you Goodell would have dealt with the situation differently had both offenses occured in the same decade on his watch.

Ray pled down to a misdemeanor and was sentenced to no jail time for good reason. The prosecution in that case always knew he had no direct involvement in the assaults, just knowledge of them as a witness in what was essentially a post bar room brawl. His mistake, which he eventually acknowledged, was in telling his associates to keep their mouths shut and in giving the police misleading information when first questioned. And as it turned out, they were unable to convict Ray's associates or anyone else involved, either. How people can't see the difference between those isolated acts, regardless of outcome, and Vicks' intentional continuous long term illegal and immoral behavior is just beyond me. Still, had it happened today I think Goodell would have dealt with Ray harshly under the new NFLPA approved Personal Conduct Policy that DID NOT EXIST in 2000. In fact it was the cases of Ray Lewis and Ray Carruth and Mark Chamura that led the league to begin refining it's personal conduct policy. It was a long slow process because they made the mistake of focusing their efforts on prevention rather than punishment, and that likely led to where we are today. Many of these players don't understand anything short of a punishment that takes away their ability to play this game on the field.

Two wrongs don't make a right no matter how much some of you seem to want them to. And in case some of you hadn't figured this out yet, life comes with no guarantee it will be fair.

I couldn't have said it better. Well put. :agree:

 

[DaBruinz]

It looks like the fall-out from the Vick plea bargain might be starting.

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20070825/D8R85OB80.html

They don't directly mention Vick, but there are too many similarities to how the dogs were found on Vick's property...

 

[SmokeShowin]

I heard on the radio earlier in the week that the state attorney general is saying he is going to file state charges against Vick after he is sentenced on the federal charges. Supposedly he could get 40 years on the state charges. His trial could begin mid September.

I also heard that his plea deal may fall through as he is denying betting on the dogfighting. One sound byte I heard had a prosecutor saying "If the defense thinks this plea deal is going to fly, they are in for a surprise."

Stick it to him.

 

[maverick4]

Ill say it again....Go KILL yourself Michael Vick, you bring absolutely nothing useful to the human race.

You're going way overboard. What he did was wrong, but some of you scare me, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lots of other kinds of animals are killed all the time, and there are lots of NFL players who abuse/beat their wives and other despicable acts, but the hate on Michael Vick is a little over the top.

I'm not Black but I think that this may be race related a bit, if Vick were White there wouldn't be nearly as much hate on the guy.

 

[DaBruinz]

You're going way overboard. What he did was wrong, but some of you scare me, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lots of other kinds of animals are killed all the time, and there are lots of NFL players who abuse/beat their wives and other despicable acts, but the hate on Michael Vick is a little over the top.

I'm not Black but I think that this may be race related a bit, if Vick were White there wouldn't be nearly as much hate on the guy.

This is BS. There would be just as much hate on the guy whether he was white, black or purple with pink polka dots.

When there are reports about players who beat/abuse their wives, there is outrage. So I don't know where you get the idea that there isn't.

I just want Vick to rot in jail and never sully the NFL again.

 

[AirForcePatFan]

Let's put it this way, if this was TOM BRADY instead of MICHAEL VICK, I would be asking for his OUST as well... It is NOT a black/white issue for me...

If it's ILLEGAL, I don't think you should be in the league anyway... The NFL is starting to look like a league of THUGS... Thank God for the Patriots, they seem to be one of the few if only team that habitually doesn't get into trouble with the law...

 

[Deus Irae]

You're going way overboard. What he did was wrong, but some of you scare me, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lots of other kinds of animals are killed all the time, and there are lots of NFL players who abuse/beat their wives and other despicable acts, but the hate on Michael Vick is a little over the top.

I'm not Black but I think that this may be race related a bit, if Vick were White there wouldn't be nearly as much hate on the guy.

People are going overboard, no question. However, it's not because of race.

 

[Bostonian1962]

You're going way overboard. What he did was wrong, but some of you scare me, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lots of other kinds of animals are killed all the time, and there are lots of NFL players who abuse/beat their wives and other despicable acts, but the hate on Michael Vick is a little over the top.

I'm not Black but I think that this may be race related a bit, if Vick were White there wouldn't be nearly as much hate on the guy.

I almost should not respond to this, because it will be memorialized on this site forever, but I agree with you. I'm a white, Republican, engineer, and I've been thinking about this alot. I'm all alone on an island when I say that I don't think that Vick should get the 1 to 5 years that folks are talking about. I believe he should get probation, and should play in the NFL again. I hate with a passion crimes against women and children. I hate crimes against police. Vick is not a murderer, or a wife beater, or a child abuser, or rapist. He was involved in dog fighting. The worst part of that to me, was the killing of the dogs, and for that he should get probation, fines, community service, and some mental health stuff (anybody capable of killing dogs is troubled in some way) etc. But, to see him locked up in prison makes no sense to me, and I have to admit that if it was say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, the thought process would be much different with alot of people. I'll get beat up perhaps for saying this, but I've got to be honest. I do respect those that think differently than I do, and realize I'm in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

 

[BoltsFan]

I almost should not respond to this, because it will be memorialized on this site forever, but I agree with you. I'm a white, Republican, engineer, and I've been thinking about this alot. I'm all alone on an island when I say that I don't think that Vick should get the 1 to 5 years that folks are talking about. I believe he should get probation, and should play in the NFL again. I hate with a passion crimes against women and children. I hate crimes against police. Vick is not a murderer, or a wife beater, or a child abuser, or rapist. He was involved in dog fighting. The worst part of that to me, was the killing of the dogs, and for that he should get probation, fines, community service, and some mental health stuff (anybody capable of killing dogs is troubled in some way) etc. But, to see him locked up in prison makes no sense to me, and I have to admit that if it was say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, the thought process would be much different with alot of people. I'll get beat up perhaps for saying this, but I've got to be honest. I do respect those that think differently than I do, and realize I'm in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with your position. I think a lot of people are overreacting and blowing this out of proportion just a bit. Yes, what he did was wrong, it was illegal, and it was morally reprehensible but does that mean he should be robbed of his livelyhood for the rest of his life?

I mean he's already paying a pretty heavy price and he's about to pay dearly. Once he's payed for his heinous behavior I think if he wants to try and play again in the NFL he should get a shot. I love dogs as much as the next person and what he was into absolutely sucks. But the more I think about it the more I think that I want to find a way in my heart to forgive what he did.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

You're going way overboard. What he did was wrong, but some of you scare me, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lots of other kinds of animals are killed all the time, and there are lots of NFL players who abuse/beat their wives and other despicable acts, but the hate on Michael Vick is a little over the top.

I'm not Black but I think that this may be race related a bit, if Vick were White there wouldn't be nearly as much hate on the guy.

What bullsh1t!

Vick has gotten nothing but overwhelming love and support from all angles since the day he picked up a football and started scrambling around. He was the poster boy for the NFL even though he was a mediocre QB. His life was handed to him on a silver platter. $130 million was just the tip of his financial iceberg. He was allowed to spread herpes with immunity.

The only thing ever asked of him by the NFL, and also his college coaches, was that he kindly not torture and execute dogs for amusement or profit.

The anger is for the vile things that he has done with his life, just like it is for any other criminal.

You apologists and enablers really need to get a clue. He ran a multi-state crime ring for at least 6 years. This constant comparison of Vick to other people, or to unrelated crimes that occured under a different NFL commish, and this constant drumbeat about 'the victims were just animals', is a load of crap.

What is it about torturing dogs for 6 years that you don't get? His crimes are his crimes alone, and he will have his day in court, and his lawyer will not be making references to Ray Ray or Leonard Little. It will be all about Vick.

 

[DaBruinz]

I almost should not respond to this, because it will be memorialized on this site forever, but I agree with you. I'm a white, Republican, engineer, and I've been thinking about this alot. I'm all alone on an island when I say that I don't think that Vick should get the 1 to 5 years that folks are talking about. I believe he should get probation, and should play in the NFL again. I hate with a passion crimes against women and children. I hate crimes against police. Vick is not a murderer, or a wife beater, or a child abuser, or rapist. He was involved in dog fighting. The worst part of that to me, was the killing of the dogs, and for that he should get probation, fines, community service, and some mental health stuff (anybody capable of killing dogs is troubled in some way) etc. But, to see him locked up in prison makes no sense to me, and I have to admit that if it was say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, the thought process would be much different with alot of people. I'll get beat up perhaps for saying this, but I've got to be honest. I do respect those that think differently than I do, and realize I'm in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

WOW. This is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING. We're not talking about 1 or 2 dogs that he or his associated killed. He's admitted to killing 6-8 in APRIL. There were 36 dog carcasses found on his property. That is the sign of a Sociopath. NOT someone who should only get probation.

I am a While Male, Republican, and an engineer and I am thoroughly disgusted by Vick's actions. They have been going on for years. Since at least 2000 if you listen to his step-father. All it would have taken is ONE of those dogs that Vick and his associates turned into a visious weapon to get loose and hurt or maim a child and there would be even MORE charges against Vick.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with your position. I think a lot of people are overreacting and blowing this out of proportion just a bit. Yes, what he did was wrong, it was illegal, and it was morally reprehensible but does that mean he should be robbed of his livelyhood for the rest of his life?

In a word. YES. Vick is a criminal. He's shown absolutely NO remorse regarding his actions. The only reason he pleaded guilty was because his lawyers told him that it was probably the ONLY way he'd be a part of society again.

I mean he's already paying a pretty heavy price and he's about to pay dearly. Once he's payed for his heinous behavior I think if he wants to try and play again in the NFL he should get a shot. I love dogs as much as the next person and what he was into absolutely sucks. But the more I think about it the more I think that I want to find a way in my heart to forgive what he did.

There is no way to forgive someone partaking in the torturing and killing of at least 6 dogs. And don't forget that there were a total of 36 carcasses on that property and Vick was seen there a LOT.

Considering that most pro sports have issues with some of their star players gambling (MLB- Rose, NBA-Jordan, NHL-Tocchet), why should the NFL treat Vick any differently for his gambling? As for paying for his behavior, the Virginia state laws call for a 5 year sentence for each charge of animal cruelty. That could mean Vick could face up to 40 years in prison at the STATE level.

There could ALSO be charges from the IRS for Tax Evasion.

Vick doesn't deserve another chance because he's not sorry for what he did. In every picture of him that I've seen since his arrest, he's been defiant. Not remorseful. Defiant. And its a sign that he just doesn't get it.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I almost should not respond to this, because it will be memorialized on this site forever, but I agree with you. I'm a white, Republican, engineer, and I've been thinking about this alot. I'm all alone on an island when I say that I don't think that Vick should get the 1 to 5 years that folks are talking about. I believe he should get probation, and should play in the NFL again. I hate with a passion crimes against women and children. I hate crimes against police. Vick is not a murderer, or a wife beater, or a child abuser, or rapist. He was involved in dog fighting. The worst part of that to me, was the killing of the dogs, and for that he should get probation, fines, community service, and some mental health stuff (anybody capable of killing dogs is troubled in some way) etc. But, to see him locked up in prison makes no sense to me, and I have to admit that if it was say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, the thought process would be much different with alot of people. I'll get beat up perhaps for saying this, but I've got to be honest. I do respect those that think differently than I do, and realize I'm in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

What are you talking about? If Brady or Manning ran a crime ring for the last 6 years, and were known to have actually been involved in animal torture going back to when they were kids?

If Brady or Manning were warned repeatedly at different points in their life to not engage in dog fighting under any circumstances, and they still went ahead and set up a crime syndicate with a cute name?

What if pigs fly?

Making this a race issue is pure nonsense, and just proves that we have a society of silent enablers when white people start pulling the race card on each other about a habitual animal torturer.

The day that he has served his dues, and honestly shows that he is remorseful for what he did to those dogs, and that his days as a scumbag are really behind him, is the day he can be forgiven.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I almost should not respond to this, because it will be memorialized on this site forever, but I agree with you. I'm a white, Republican, engineer, and I've been thinking about this alot. I'm all alone on an island when I say that I don't think that Vick should get the 1 to 5 years that folks are talking about. I believe he should get probation, and should play in the NFL again. I hate with a passion crimes against women and children. I hate crimes against police. Vick is not a murderer, or a wife beater, or a child abuser, or rapist. He was involved in dog fighting. The worst part of that to me, was the killing of the dogs, and for that he should get probation, fines, community service, and some mental health stuff (anybody capable of killing dogs is troubled in some way) etc. But, to see him locked up in prison makes no sense to me, and I have to admit that if it was say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, the thought process would be much different with alot of people. I'll get beat up perhaps for saying this, but I've got to be honest. I do respect those that think differently than I do, and realize I'm in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

So should there be no jail time for any crime other than crimes against police, crimes against women or children, murder, domestic abuse, child abuse or rape? Let's just give the rest of 'em community service for illegal gambling, drug dealing, armed robbery, assault and battery (as long as the victim isn't a cop, woman or child), fraud, extortion, theft...

You just don't get it or you've overthought it - he's getting nothing for killing the dogs - so far - beyond public outrage and contempt (which will eventually cost him millions in endorsement money and may in fact keep him off the field permanently). He's getting sentenced to prison for conspiring to operate an illegal gambling ring across state lines. That dogs were what they were transporting and betting on is almost irrelevant where the government and the league are concerned, except for the connection that sick passtime posesses to drug dealers and organized crime. And of course he's proven himself to be a pathological liar which has cost him the support of Arthur Blank and any consideration from Roger Goodell. Not to mention that at the end of the day he may not serve a day of any sentence in prison since like the associates who agreed to testify against him, he has offered to become a federal informant and testify against anyone who can get his sentence reduced. He has shown no remorse for any of his actions beyond apparent remorse for what he's done to himself. The fact that he WAS a black QB as opposed to a caucasian QB doesn't change the equation for anyone but an apologist.

 

[PatsSteve1]

Well, I'm a drug addicted, white commie thief, ex-hit man - IMO, Vick should "get" whatever anyone else gets/got who pleaded out to the same crime and agree's to cooperate with the feds and gets others convicted. If that happens. And I don't know what that is. I don't think he should get more or less because he is or isn't Mike Vick. I don't know what the standard is for someone in his situation, but that's what should happen.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

As might be expected, he apologized to everyone but the poor dogs, including 50 of his on the canine version of death row (hopefully the 12 other dogs including beagles obviously to be used a bait may yet qualify for parole) as a result of his "immaturity"... Found Jesus too, as do they all.

Seemed genuinely embarasses and contrite. Just still don't think he gets it. This wasn't just about being immature.

RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick pleaded guilty Monday to a federal dogfighting charge and awaited a Dec. 10 sentencing date that could send the NFL star to prison.

In a statement before the media Monday, Vick said he took full responsibility for his actions. He concluded by saying: "I will redeem myself. I have to."

"First, I want to apologize for all the things that I have done and I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to Commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, Coach Bobby Petrino, and my Atlanta Falcons teammates, for I was not honest and forthright in our discussions," Vick said.

"I was ashamed and totally disappointed in myself, to say the least. I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts. What I did was very immature, so that means I need to grow up."

Vick said he now has rejected dogfighting and has found religion as a result of the federal charges. "Dogfighting is a terrible thing. I reject it," he said.

"I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to better Michael Vick the person, not the football player," Vick said.

"I take full responsibility for my actions … I am totally responsible."

The plea by the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback was accepted by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who asked: "Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?"

Vick replied, "Yes, sir."

Hudson emphasized he is not bound by sentencing guidelines and can impose the maximum sentence of up to five years in prison.

"You're taking your chances here. You'll have to live with whatever decision I make," Hudson said.

In his written plea filed in federal court Friday, Vick admitted helping kill six to eight pit bulls and supplying money for gambling on the fights. He said he did not personally place any bets or share in any winnings.

The NFL suspended him indefinitely and without pay Friday after his plea agreement was filed. Merely associating with gamblers can trigger a lifetime ban under the league's personal conduct policy.

Federal prosecutors recommended 12-18 months in prison.

"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane" so three of the four defendants, including Vick, should receive harsher sentences.

The first defendant to plead guilty left the conspiracy in 2004 and is not as culpable, he said.




http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992890

 

[Bella*chick]

It's amazing the places where Jesus apparently hides.

 

[Tunescribe]

The Michael Vick pity party has begun. I'm surprised the Falcons aren't cutting him, and am surprised to hear Blank express hope Vick will rehab himself and play again. (There must be a technical reason or two for his not being cut that I'm not clear on. Mo -- any insight?)

So, he gets sentenced Dec. 10, which seems a long ways away. I wonder what the chances are he doesn't see jail time.