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OT: Loyalty in sports

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Crazy Patriot Guy, Jul 11, 2010.

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  1. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    Whether or not we like basketball, most of us have an opinion on the Lebron James saga. I feel that he couldn't have handled how he left much worse. However, I don't have a problem with him leaving.

    I understand how Cleveland fans feel. Of course there's a sense of betrayal. In the end though, there's a part of me that feels they don't have the right to feel betrayed and that's for one simple reason: they would have no problem with Lebron leaving if he had stunk for the last seven years.

    Kris Brown has been the kicker for every game the Houston Texans have existed. He is the only player left from their original 2002 team. Last season he was horrible. In no less than two games he missed FGs that would have brought it into OT. He really struggled. The fans booed him during every kick in that Week 17 game against us.

    He's still on the roster but the team has signed some competition for him. What if he had been a free agent though? If he was a free agent this offseason and signed with someone else, almost every Texans fan would be more than happy to see him leave. Living in Texas, I know that for a fact. Most fans would actually WANT the door to hit him on the way out. :)

    What if he made those FGs? What if the Texans win two OT games and finish 11-5? They're a playoff team. Maybe they win in the divisional round. Fans are happy they got their first winning season this year but 11-5 possibly with a playoff win sure looks really good. They'll look at that team and see the promising young defense, an improving offense and a kicker that comes through in the clutch. Super Bowl in 2010?

    Same scenario, what if Kris Brown was a free agent? What if he signs with someone else? Fans would be hurt. How could the original Texan betray his team and leave when they're so close to winning it all?

    Again, I know what the Cleveland fans are feeling. It's human nature. Like I said though, it's because he was so good. It wasn't because he was a hometown kid. It's because he was good.

    Most of us will be fans of the Patriots until the day we die. We're loyal to the team. That doesn't mean we're loyal to all the players. We're loyal to the ones that help our team win. If Lebron feels he can win by leaving, he has that right. Players only have so long. We have our whole lives.
  2. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    Hey Asante. Eff you!

    Wait, did I just prove your point?
  3. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    As a Patriots first, Texans second fan, I love the analogy :rocker:
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    I think there's more to it than that.

    I think a lot of it has to do with how the person acts on and off the field.

    As an example, just consider the departures of Mike Vrabel v. Adalius Thomas. Vrabel's was met with a lot of shock, while after Thomas, who unquestionably was an elite athlete (e.g., his one TD return), was cut, a lot of us here wouldn't have minded the door hitting him, either.

    Ditto with David Givens vs. Deion Branch: both played integral roles in the Pats' SB wins, but there wasn't nearly as much anger over Givens' departure as over Branch's.
  5. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    That one's a little tougher - especially when the head coach wasn't pleased that he was out of position on a certain critical play that obviously changed the outcome of a certain game. I'm sure that didn't help with the motivation for the home team to "show him the money".

    I think CPG makes a lot of good points - there's only a certain amount of loyalty these days in professional sports, and to a certain extent it comes down to money. I think part of it comes down to the agents. Obviously the players are all adults and can think for themselves, but there are plenty of those agents who fill the players' heads with things that as you can imagine probably don't help in those negotiations. They only know what's said behind closed doors by what they're told - since most players prefer to have their business handled by their agents. Most are honest and obviously work for their clients, some aren't and we've seen the results (ie: the Poston Brothers). I'm sure that plays some sort of a factor.

    I'd like to think that they'd want to remain a part of the organization that gave them their start, but as we know unfortunately that's not always the case. And if the money isn't where it needs to be and the player doesn't have confidence or comfort where he is, obviously that factors into the decision to make a change - and makes us question that loyalty. I'd say overall it works out more often than it doesn't, which is why we remember those types of players than we do others. I also think how it plays out publicly causes us to decide how we remember them, and we've seen our share of ones that haven't ended the way we would have liked in recent years.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  6. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    Yeah, that's me too. I got hooked up with free club seats for the Texans-Pats game. Knowing it didn't make a critical difference for the Pats, I was rooting for the Texans, hoping they could make the playoffs. All I wanted was for the Pats to come out of the game with no injur...damnit!!! :mad:
  7. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    It's much easier to be 'loyal' when you're not playing for a city/franchise that is full of suck.

    I find myself agreeing with you. I can't blame Lebron for leaving, but he definitely was lame for that one hour special. At the same time, I stopped feeling for Cleveland the minute I saw them burning jerseys and then the ridiculous statement by their owner. Both sides handled this thing terribly.
  8. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    In my opinion it's the way in which some sports stars leave their teams that creates the conflict and feelings of betrayal. There's a perceived right way and a perceived wrong way to move on. All things come to an end at some point.

    LeBron couldn't have handled it any worse.. but he's a 25 year old self absorbed baby as it were so nobody should have expected anything less of him. I honestly dislike his antics and have lowered my opinion of him where before I was a fan of his basketball ability.

    Cleveland pampered him to much and it came back to bight them.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  9. swheeler23

    swheeler23 Rookie

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    I use to believe in team and player loyalty. I think the Patriots are going to franchise Brady and if they do I will lose a lot of respect for the Patriots. Would not blame him if he set out either. They should be taking care of Mankins also.
  10. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    You hit the nail on the head with the way being key.
  11. MassPats38

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    I was actually hoping LeBron would go to the Knicks so he could experience firsthand the New York media when he doesn't produce titles as advertised. I have no issue with him leaving the Cavs, but as a hometown product, his self-promotion in the ESPN show, and lack of prior notification to the owner who has backed him without exception prior to his exit was completely ridiculous. I hope the Heat never see a title so I can enjoy the occasional non-NFL sporting event.

    As for NFL loyalty, the very nature of contracts in the NFL (nothing is guaranteed other than the signing bonus) cuts against loyalty. Players give up their youth and health for an empty promise from an owner that they have a job. As such, I don't begrudge them getting what they can while they can when they hit free agency.

    Personally, I will always favor the Troy Browns, who become the identity of the team, over the Jay Cutlers, who shoot their way off a team and happily burn bridges prior to reaching free agency. Football is still a team sport, so you have to wonder whether guys like Cutler can ever lead a team to the promised land. How can they call out players for letting down the team when they have demonstrated a willingness to burn a team to the ground to get what they want in terms of compensation?
  12. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    (A) Why would they do that in lieu of signing him to a new contract/extension?
    (B) If for some reason they can't reach a new deal with him this year, why shouldn't they franchise him? I can understand why they didn't do it with Moss back in 2008, but why on earth would you even allow the possibility of Brady leaving and receiving, at best, a 2012 3rd in return?
  13. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    ???

    So regardless of what the next cap is, the Patriots should agree to pay all veteran team players whatever they want to be paid?

    I'm not saying that Brady or Mankins are asking for 'too much', but that 'team needs to take care of them' mentality is really short sighted.

    When you operate in a league with a salary cap - and make no mistake, the owners will not continue unless there is a salary cap - any and every player has a monetary value. At some point it is no longer worth paying a player for his services, even if he is the best player in the league.

    Let's take the Patriots out of the equation. What if next year the Raiders offer Peyton Manning $40 million per year? If the Colts don't match that offer, does that mean they are not being loyal?


    As for the comment about franchising a player such as Brady, that's simply a very poor business decision. Why would you let an elite player walk and get no more than a 3rd round pick one full year later, out of some sense of 'loyalty'? The franchise tag is hardly a one-way street; the player either gets a raise, or is paid among the top five in his position.


    It may be unfortunate, but that kind of loyalty to a team's players is a sure-fire way to turn a playoff team into one with a top-five draft pick in just a couple of years.
  14. Brady2Welker

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    This.


    Lebron exercised his right to sign with a team other than the Cavaliers when he hit free agency, albeit he did it as a bit of a dick. That said, I agree that it was the city of Cleveland's fault.


    None of this has any weight on Favre though. Retirement = ultimate ******* strategy.
  15. ahmed

    ahmed Rookie

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    I think more often than not, players that leave get a raw deal from the fans. If the player that leaves is a good player and leaves because another team offers him more money, a lot of the fans start calling them out as ‘only interested in money’, ‘they don’t care about winning’ or ‘he turned down a fair deal’ blah blah blah… but when a team cuts a player that is underperforming or worth too much, you start hearing ‘good riddance’, ‘don’t let the door hit you’ and at best ‘ahh you had some good times with us, good luck’.

    That and the fact that contracts are not guaranteed is the reason I never hold anything against an NFL player leaving or holding out for more money. While I was not happy with Branch, I understood.

    Lebron on the other hand was a jerk… I am fine with him leaving for a better team… what I could not stand is the fact that he did not answer a single call or text from the organization while he was deciding his fate, he teased Cleveland along and basically held their Free Agency hostage (they did not move because their moves would depend on his decision) when he clearly knew where he wanted to go from the get go and last but not least, the disgusting act he put on ESPN.

    As one of the posters said above, he could not have picked a worse way of leaving. That I have an issue with, otherwise I am fine with players going wherever they want.
  16. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    the OPs points are valid but I would like to point out that there are exceptions and unless you do something specific like go to an enemy like the colts than I will continue to root for you regardless and that includes guys with lesser contributions and even guys with none.

    I rooted for Eckel to make a team when he left and I was glad the Eagles found a role for him. I find it cool that Gould and Dawson had success in Chicago and Cleveland because that somehow meant the Pats were nasty at finding kickers...(Adam, those two, and now Ghost). I find myself picking guys with Patriots ties in Madden when I do fantasy drafts just because I rooted for them before.
  17. Leave No Doubt

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    Re: OT:Loyalty in sports

    :yeahthat: Loyalty needs some occasional nurturing.

    And I agree about the whole dog and pony show; the owner, the fans, the politicians singing to him... insanity, and if I were LeBron I'd be glad to be out of that entire looney bin:bricks:
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