OT: Jeremy Mincey on Bill Belichick

[FibSeq13478]

His football journey appeared on ESPN Dallas blog a while ago and showed up briefly on Reiss's blog so most people here may have missed it.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4735237/football-journey-jeremy-mincey

What was your experience like in New England?

Mincey: I’ll respect coach (Bill) Belichick until the day I die. I remember him asking me about my father, who was a former drug addict. I remember going home one time and my daddy said he talked to Bill Belichick for a good long time. I listened to him, but I didn’t believe him. I went back to New England and he called me into his office. I thought I was going to get cut, but he told me he talked to my father and I was like, “Wow."

When I got released, he told me the truth. He said he loved my energy and I had some guys ahead of me like Roosevelt Colvin, Mike Vrabel and Junior Seau just signed, and I was playing linebacker and I barely knew how to play defensive end.

 

[Mike the Brit]

1. BB is not a "players' coach". He will be quite ruthless if he thinks the needs of the team require it -- ask Richard Seymour or Lawyer Milloy. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about his players as human beings. Yet he keeps all of that to himself and doesn't grandstand. True greatness!

2. Of all the players who came to New England through the Urban Meyer-Bill Belichick love affair you could say that Jeremy Mincey has had the best career. Strange.

 

[upstater1]

This is an era of self promotion, and BB is congenitally against that sort of thing, so people think he's the devil because his persona is not advertised all over the media.

 

[mayoclinic]

1. BB is not a "players' coach". He will be quite ruthless if he thinks the needs of the team require it -- ask Richard Seymour or Lawyer Milloy. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about his players as human beings. Yet he keeps all of that to himself and doesn't grandstand. True greatness!

2. Of all the players who came to New England through the Urban Meyer-Bill Belichick love affair you could say that Jeremy Mincey has had the best career. Strange.

Interestingly, in an interview with Scott Wright of NFLDraftcountdown before the 2006 draft (no longer available online), Chad Jackson said that the one Florida player he could see becoming a star was Jeremy Mincey:

"Scott Wright: Is there one player at Florida that you see developing into a star, either at the college or pro level?

Chad Jackson: Jeremy Mincey because of his unbelievable motor, work ethic and leadership. He also happens to be represented by my agents. "

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../interesting-comment-from-chad-jackson.35426/

The 2006 draft was not one of BB's best, and Mincey didn't stick. But for a 6th round pick to be a starting player on 2 different teams with a 9 year career (so far) is definitely beating the odds.

 

[Mike the Brit]

The 2006 draft was not one of BB's best, and Mincey didn't stick. But for a 6th round pick to be a starting player on 2 different teams with a 9 year career (so far) is definitely beating the odds.

That brings us to one of the things that I've always thought might be a weakness in the BB way of doing things. He's not prepared to "pipeline" young players for the time that they're needed later. So, when a big piece is removed (Bruschi, Seymour, Branch) there is often a huge gap.

I can think of three reasons.

1. BB wants each season to be self-standing. No one has "tenure" -- maybe not even Brady. If you're on the team it's because you'll contribute now. Strictly speaking, that isn't quite true -- a high pick rookie will have a couple of years to start to have an impact. But it's the general policy and the players know it. (e.g. Bryan Stork's wonderful comment about never being "Belichick's guy".)

2. Contracts aren't long enough to make it worth while. If you stash a guy for a couple of years, how long do you then have before he hits free agency?

3. BB gives huge priority to special teams. That means that people like Chris White or Sergio Brown make the team and take places from young players who might have developed into frontline starters.

If the odd Jeremy Mincey gets away, that's a consequence.

 

[mayoclinic]

That brings us to one of the things that I've always thought might be a weakness in the BB way of doing things. He's not prepared to "pipeline" young players for the time that they're needed later. So, when a big piece is removed (Bruschi, Seymour, Branch) there is often a huge gap.

I can think of three reasons.

1. BB wants each season to be self-standing. No one has "tenure" -- maybe not even Brady. If you're on the team it's because you'll contribute now. Strictly speaking, that isn't quite true -- a high pick rookie will have a couple of years to start to have an impact. But it's the general policy and the players know it. (e.g. Bryan Stork's wonderful comment about never being "Belichick's guy".)

2. Contracts aren't long enough to make it worth while. If you stash a guy for a couple of years, how long do you then have before he hits free agency?

3. BB gives huge priority to special teams. That means that people like Chris White or Sergio Brown make the team and take places from young players who might have developed into frontline starters.

If the odd Jeremy Mincey gets away, that's a consequence.

Good thoughts. I think BB sometimes does let guys get away too easily. That's also partly due to having a crowded roster. I agree that he sometimes keeps ST players over guys who might develop into solid rotational players. Ted Larsen and Zach Sudfeld also come to mind. Occasionally this leaves the team thin, especially in the case of injuries. But BB is one of the best in the business at churning the back end of the roster and addressing weaknesses on the fly. I'm not sure there's anyone who really stands out as being that huge a loss.

 

[luuked]

Good thoughts. I think BB sometimes does let guys get away too easily. That's also partly due to having a crowded roster. I agree that he sometimes keeps ST players over guys who might develop into solid rotational players. Ted Larsen and Zach Sudfeld also come to mind. Occasionally this leaves the team thin, especially in the case of injuries. But BB is one of the best in the business at churning the back end of the roster and addressing weaknesses on the fly. I'm not sure there's anyone who really stands out as being that huge a loss.

Give him 10 more roster spots and prepare to be amazed. I think we would be the biggest beneficiary in the league from an roster size increase.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Good thoughts. I think BB sometimes does let guys get away too easily. That's also partly due to having a crowded roster. I agree that he sometimes keeps ST players over guys who might develop into solid rotational players. Ted Larsen and Zach Sudfeld also come to mind. Occasionally this leaves the team thin, especially in the case of injuries. But BB is one of the best in the business at churning the back end of the roster and addressing weaknesses on the fly. I'm not sure there's anyone who really stands out as being that huge a loss.

Totally agree. Rich Ornberger seemed to be having a good season before he went on IR and I still miss KT, but, really, what right do we have to complain about such small numbers?

 

[mayoclinic]

Totally agree. Rich Ornberger seemed to be having a good season before he went on IR and I still miss KT, but, really, what right do we have to complain about such small numbers?

I think the most interesting thing about it is that some of these draft "failures" have had reasonably productive NFL players, especially when you consider the average chance of an NFL career for a day 3 pick:

- Rich Ohrnberger (4th round, 2009): Finished his 6th season, started 7 games for San Diego before going on IR.
- Jeremy Mincey (6th round, 2006): Finished his 9th season, starting 16 games for the playoff-bound Dallas Cowboys. Had 6 sacks. Started 32 consecutive games for Jacksonville in 2011-2012.
- Ted Larsen (6th round, 2010): Finished his 5th season, starting 16 games for the playoff-bound Arizona Cardinals and beating out former 1st round top 10 pick Jonathan Cooper for a starting role. Has started 47 games over 5 seasons.

Brandon Tate's another example, having finished his 6th season in the NFL. None of these guys are world beaters, but surviving half a decade plus in the NFL is no mean feat. They may not have succeeded with the Patriots, but by NFL standards, these guys weren't "busts".

 

[Ring 6]

I think the most interesting thing about it is that some of these draft "failures" have had reasonably productive NFL players, especially when you consider the average chance of an NFL career for a day 3 pick:

- Rich Ohrnberger (4th round, 2009): Finished his 6th season, started 7 games for San Diego before going on IR.
- Jeremy Mincey (6th round, 2006): Finished his 9th season, starting 16 games for the playoff-bound Dallas Cowboys. Had 6 sacks. Started 32 consecutive games for Jacksonville in 2011-2012.
- Ted Larsen (6th round, 2010): Finished his 5th season, starting 16 games for the playoff-bound Arizona Cardinals and beating out former 1st round top 10 pick Jonathan Cooper for a starting role. Has started 47 games over 5 seasons.

Brandon Tate's another example, having finished his 6th season in the NFL. None of these guys are world beaters, but surviving half a decade plus in the NFL is no mean feat. They may not have succeeded with the Patriots, but by NFL standards, these guys weren't "busts".

I think it is a fair statement that over the last 15 years, the Patriots have been overall the best football team in the NFL. Its not surprising that players who couldn't make this team could make others, and sticking around.
I also think people totally dismiss the development required from being drafted to being a capable NFL player, and the fact that everyone has a different pace of development(mental, physical and knowldge-wise). Some players are night and day different after 3 years than as a rookie.

 

[mayoclinic]

I also think people totally dismiss the development required from being drafted to being a capable NFL player, and the fact that everyone has a different pace of development(mental, physical and knowldge-wise). Some players are night and day different after 3 years than as a rookie.

This is absolutely true, and cannot be emphasized enough. People expect instant contribution, even from day 3 picks. Bryan Stork and Cameron Fleming are wildly successful 4th round picks in their rookie seasons.

The Pats saw something that caused them to draft Rich Ohrnberger, Ted Larsen and Jeremy Mincey. The fact that those guys are still playing and producing in the NFL suggests that they weren't completely off base. I'm guessing that the Pats also weren't completely off base with Tavon Wilson, Duron Harmon, Josh Boyce and Michael Buchanan. That's not to say that they can't whiff entirely from time to time (Shawn Crable, Ron Brace, and probably Jake Bequette).

 

[Ring 6]

This is absolutely true, and cannot be emphasized enough. People expect instant contribution, even from day 3 picks. Bryan Stork and Cameron Fleming are wildly successful 4th round picks in their rookie seasons.

The Pats saw something that caused them to draft Rich Ohrnberger, Ted Larsen and Jeremy Mincey. The fact that those guys are still playing and producing in the NFL suggests that they weren't completely off base. I'm guessing that the Pats also weren't completely off base with Tavon Wilson, Duron Harmon, Josh Boyce and Michael Buchanan. That's not to say that they can't whiff entirely from time to time (Shawn Crable, Ron Brace, and probably Jake Bequeatte).

The opposite can happen as well, where a player looks better than expected initially and never progresses. I'm fearful Butler falls into this category.

 

[james87654]

good article.....another reason i love BB

 

[FCB02062]

Don't let Herr Felger or Squeaky hear about this; doesn't fit the narrative...

 

[rochrist]

Good thoughts. I think BB sometimes does let guys get away too easily. That's also partly due to having a crowded roster. I agree that he sometimes keeps ST players over guys who might develop into solid rotational players. Ted Larsen and Zach Sudfeld also come to mind. Occasionally this leaves the team thin, especially in the case of injuries. But BB is one of the best in the business at churning the back end of the roster and addressing weaknesses on the fly. I'm not sure there's anyone who really stands out as being that huge a loss.

With two full seasons under his belt, Zack Sudfeld has a grand total of 10 career catches.

 

[captain stone]

I thought at the time that Mincey was a poor pick in that he was a pure 4-3 DE and Bill was running
a pure 3-4. OTOH, I loved FS Antoine Bethea in the 6th round, and we had 3 cracks at him. Too bad,
because had Bill drafted Bethea, then Stomper Meriweather would've been superfluous.

 

[RayClay]

I thought at the time that Mincey was a poor pick in that he was a pure 4-3 DE and Bill was running
a pure 3-4. OTOH, I loved FS Antoine Bethea in the 6th round, and we had 3 cracks at him. Too bad,
because had Bill drafted Bethea, then Stomper Meriweather would've been superfluous.

Imagine if Bethea came out years earlier and they picked him in the 6th instead of Brady?

 

[TomPatriot]

2. Of all the players who came to New England through the Urban Meyer-Bill Belichick love affair you could say that Jeremy Mincey has had the best career. Strange.

The jury is still out on JG. UM loves him.

 

[DocHoliday]

This is absolutely true, and cannot be emphasized enough. People expect instant contribution, even from day 3 picks. Bryan Stork and Cameron Fleming are wildly successful 4th round picks in their rookie seasons.

The Pats saw something that caused them to draft Rich Ohrnberger, Ted Larsen and Jeremy Mincey. The fact that those guys are still playing and producing in the NFL suggests that they weren't completely off base. I'm guessing that the Pats also weren't completely off base with Tavon Wilson, Duron Harmon, Josh Boyce and Michael Buchanan. That's not to say that they can't whiff entirely from time to time (Shawn Crable, Ron Brace, and probably Jake Bequeatte).

I am still amazed Bequette is still around. He must be doing something in practice.

 

[mayoclinic]

With two full seasons under his belt, Zack Sudfeld has a grand total of 10 career catches.

I'm well aware, and I certainly don't think it was any tremendous loss. But both Sudfeld and Thompkins have lasted 2 full seasons in the NFL as UDFAs, and that's well above the norm. I don't lose any sleep thinking about what might have been with Sudfeld, but I think there was something to work with there that might have deserved a bit more time.