OT: It's official, Jameis Winston doesn't have the intelligence for the NFL

[Ian]

So you haven't watched any Winston games? There's no reason to continue this... you clearly dislike the guy and that's why you're calling him a future bust. Watch some of his games on draft breakdown .com, watch how he uses his eyes and shoulders to manipulate safeties and his ability to make drive throws and antipicate. Winston may bust or become a superstar, who knows we're all GUESSING. But to call Winston a bust before he steps on the field as a Jet(he probably won't be drafted by us), is asinine.

Have to be honest with you, he's a guy full of some great moments with a coach who made him honestly play above the level he might be capable of on his own. I think he's a guy who honestly needs the right situation, support, and talent to make it at the next level. Put him on a team with not a lot of talent (which usually happens to 1st round QB's) and it might bring out things people might be disappointed to see.

I know you seem to be high on him, but as I said I saw him every week and he's about as inconsistent as they get. I just don't know if he's going to be an elite player at this level judging by where he seems to be headed...I just can't see it.

 

[Tunescribe]

So you haven't watched any Winston games? There's no reason to continue this... you clearly dislike the guy and that's why you're calling him a future bust. Watch some of his games on draft breakdown .com, watch how he uses his eyes and shoulders to manipulate safeties and his ability to make drive throws and antipicate. Winston may bust or become a superstar, who knows we're all GUESSING. But to call Winston a bust before he steps on the field as a Jet(he probably won't be drafted by us), is asinine.

 

[Ian]

View attachment 8771

LOL, that's not nice...although neither are the parents who let the kid leave the house that way

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm not a big fan of Mariota either, as both players have on the field flaws. However, he has a better release, better intangibles, and better athleticism. The Seahawks have proven the zone read has a place in the NFL if the QB is a good decision maker. Mariota could make that work early on.

I wouldn't draft either #1 but if I had to choose I'd go with Mariota. He seems to have the "it" factor a QB needs and he has a good amount of talent to mold. He's similar to Jimmy G in the sense he comes from an offense that put him in shotgun 99% of the time and probably isn't ready day 1.

 

[Jetsfan25678]

Have to be honest with you, he's a guy full of some great moments with a coach who made him honestly play above the level he might be capable of on his own. I think he's a guy who honestly needs the right situation, support, and talent to make it at the next level. Put him on a team with not a lot of talent (which usually happens to 1st round QB's) and it might bring out things people might be disappointed to see.

I know you seem to be high on him, but as I said I saw him every week and he's about as inconsistent as they get. I just don't know if that will happen judging by where he seems to be headed...I just can't see it.

Well, the Bucs do have talent at skill positions. I'm not sure if they'll keep Vincent Jackson, but they have an excellent nucleus in Mike Evans and ASJ. In terms of pro readiness, Winston is the best QB Prospect in this draft IMO, but I'd rather have Mariota because he's clean off the field and I think his issues on the field and the system QB nonsense is overblown . I have a problem with Winston's mechanics and his decision making can be irratic at rimes, especially when he has to identify underneath coverage, but we've seen Quarterbacks such as Brett Farve become elite Quarterbacks depite their inconsistency and spotty decision making (I'm not saying Winston will become Brett Farve).

I don't believe Fisher elevated his play... IMO he was in command of that offense and displayed zero hestation on vertical throws down the field and hash throws. During the second half of the Notre Dame game, Winston threw the ball multiple times before his Wide Receivers even completed their breaks; that's a sign of a Quarterback, who knows what he's doing and one that posses excellent anticipation. He carved up Notre Dame's pressure... that's yet another trait of an oustanding Quarterback IMO. When the play breaks down, he plays well in the eye of the storm and that's not something EJ Manuel was not able to do well. It may not be pretty, but his mechanics get the job done when he absolutely needs them too.

Winston may bust, I have no idea... we're all guessing , but if Winston is avaliable I'd like to see the Jets draft him (if Mariota is off the board), because every high profile prospect Quarterback, with the exception of Anderw Luck, has glaring flaws in their play.

However, I do expect him to struggle in his rookie season.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's a whole lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread.

 

[Ian]

I don't believe Fisher elevated his play...

I'm telling you, you're absolutely incorrect there. I'm not saying that Winston doesn't have the physical tools or the ability to play the position, because obviously Fisher didn't go out and execute the plays. But the guidance he gave that kid was constant and they were together on the sideline after every series, with Fisher in his ear talking to him throughout each one.

You might be high on him and like him as a player, and I won't fault you for that but like I said, I saw every single contest and while he does have some areas that are a strength, you have to play 60 minutes and trust me, he didn't do it on his own. Fisher really did a terrific job with him and for you to just dismiss that fact is a little ridiculous. I rooted for the kid each week for the sake of supporting my daughter but I'm looking at it with an unbiased eye. It's OK that you like him and I'm not going to give you a hard time about him despite my own issues with his off the field decisions. But dismissing what Fisher did completely kills your argument if you really did follow him throughout this past season.

 

[Jetsfan25678]

I'm telling you, you're absolutely incorrect there. I'm not saying that Winston doesn't have the physical tools or the ability to play the position, because obviously Fisher didn't go out and execute the plays. But the guidance he gave that kid was constant and they were together on the sideline after every series, with Fisher in his ear talking to him throughout each one.

You might be high on him and like him as a player, and I won't fault you for that but like I said, I saw every single contest and while he does have some areas that are a strength, you have to play 60 minutes and trust me, he didn't do it on his own. Fisher really did a terrific job with him and for you to just dismiss that fact is a little ridiculous. I rooted for the kid each week for the sake of supporting my daughter but I'm looking at it with an unbiased eye. It's OK that you like him and I'm not going to give you a hard time about him despite my own issues with his off the field decisions. But dismissing what Fisher did completely kills your argument if you really did follow him throughout this past season.

Fisher is a very good coach, and he has played a role in Winston's development, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that Fisher made Winston or that he is the single reason why Winston is regarded as a top ten talent rather than a second or third round talent.. If this case were the, case EJ Manuel would have been regarded as a top five talent in the '13 draft, but he was widely considered to be a reach by most who watched him at Florida State.

 

[Ian]

Fisher is a very good coach, and he has played a role in Winston's development, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that Fisher made Winston.

Forget about Manuel, because I didn't see his college games so I'm not going to sit here and pretend to make any statements based on information I don't have. But regarding Winston, he has a lot of great physical tools, but when it comes to wins and losses, coaching plays a pivotal role in putting players in position to make plays and playing to their strengths. When Fisher saw him struggle, he adjusted and Winston excelled and they won those games because of it.

But you're not talking about a guy who went out and blew out everyone last season. You're talking about a guy that found himself behind in quite a few games in the first half, particularly down the stretch toward the end of the season because he didn't play well. He didn't "make Winston" by any means, but they don't run the table in the regular season without the constant guidance he gave him either.

 

[mgteich]

There are two QB's who likely will be drafting in the top 10. Where they are drafted will depend on how each player impresses the GM's.

The media and scouts have already determined that these two are the best prospects. We can say that there are no quarterbacks worth drafting in the first round, but the draft has never worked that way. Some teams really need quarterbacks this year, and the free agents available are pitiful if you are looking for a franchise quarterback.

Some folks think that confidence doesn't matter. Some think that childish pranks are critical predictors to success. Some think that ZERO experience in the pocket doesn't matter. In a sense everyone is right. The various GM's have very different views when spending a top 10 draft pick. Obviously, some folks were very wrong last year in assessing the value that GM's put on various players.

With regard to whether the top two quarterbacks are successful in the NFL, the facts are not especially hopeful. NFLN estimated the success rate at about 50%.

 

[1960Pats]

Since I don't watch college football, threads like this are very helpful to me. Thanks.

In most cases, the first time I'll see a player play will be when he suits up in the NFL.

 

[supafly]

Since I don't watch college football, threads like this are very helpful to me. Thanks.

In most cases, the first time I'll see a player play will be when he suits up in the NFL.

Winston is clearly the better QB, and it's not even really that close. There were concerns about Mariota before he had a poor showing in the national championship game. As we've seen, Oregon can produce some QBs with good college numbers who just don't work out in the NFL.

The main questions for taking Winston are his tendency to show immaturity and make poor off the field decisions. How that projects for his future is anyone's guess, but he's reportedly making positive waves with scouts and coaches at the combine by impressing him with his football knowledge. Some have even compared him to Peyton Manning in the sense of being able to break down the play and make the right read.

 

[woolster22]

I wouldn't be saying this if I were you... it could very well come back to haunt you. But I expect him to go first.

The only way that would haunt us is if the green beans are so awful with him his sophomore year that they end up with the first pick, delivering them a quality NFL prospect that even they may not be able to ruin. On second thought, if they go ~.500 with Winston, they may be stupid enough to trade up for some big name wr (using next year's 1).

Said wr is hill redux, but with the added bonus if being the biggest diva the game has seen. Winston and the queen but heads, destroying the locker room and imploding the season.

We are onto the coaching change...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Winston is impressing teams with his football intelligence

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...is-winstons-football-acumen-impressing-clubs/

I don't think it's smart of winston to say he's going to the super bowl next year, but it's a stretch to say he's "dumber than a bag of bricks" as the OP claims.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Impressive interview with steve mariucci

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combi.../Winston-and-Mooch-simulate-a-draft-interview

 

[Triumph]

Unless his arm is attached to his body by just one thin ligament strand, and is going to literally fall off within the next week, this kid's going to be drafted #1.

Being drafted # 1 in a terrible QB draft means nothing.

Jeff George, Tim Couch, Mike Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Sam Bradford. 8 QBs all drafted # 1 and are all BUSTS. None of them will get in a Super Bowl without a ticket.

Matt Stafford, Cam Newton are also # 1 picks and well on their way to being BUSTS.

 

[Bed Check Billy]

Impressive interview with steve mariucci

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combi.../Winston-and-Mooch-simulate-a-draft-interview

I think those interviews are staged. I see them every year with the top quarterbacks and every year the top quarterback impresses. If you draft Winston, you better be prepared to handle his ego. He can not handle criticism at all. That is why he will be a bust. I don't care if these teams need a QB or not. If you draft a bust QB at the top of the draft (which has a high probability) it sets you back for years. This is why the same teams continue to fail over and over again. They could take a quality WR, LT or DE and wait for a QB worthy of a high pick in the next draft. Then, they can have a great team to support that quarterback when they find one.

 

[Deus Irae]

Being drafted # 1 in a terrible QB draft means nothing.

Jeff George, Tim Couch, Mike Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Sam Bradford. 8 QBs all drafted # 1 and are all BUSTS. None of them will get in a Super Bowl without a ticket.

Matt Stafford, Cam Newton are also # 1 picks and well on their way to being BUSTS.

Good draft, bad draft....

It's irrelevant. QBs have about a 50% hit rate in the first round. And the idea that Stafford and Newton are even remotely close to being anywhere near becoming anything approaching busts is ludicrous. Of course, given that you're claiming Carson Palmer, Michael Vick and Alex Smith are busts, it's pretty clear that the issue is with how you're defining "bust" on your end.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Luck clearly has more Neanderthal genes than Winston

 

[Nonentity]

The thing is, quarterbacks have to be almost perfect in order to succeed.

Do they have all the arm strength to make all the throws?
Can they throw the ball accurately & into tight spaces?
Can they handle the pass rush?
Do they have the mental ability to understand elite defenses?
Do they have the work ethic to prepare for opponents properly?
Do they have the maturity to avoid off-field distractions and achieve all of these consistently?


I don't think many people doubt that Winston has the ability to do the first 5, it's number 6 that's the problem. The fear is that at some point, off-the-field issues will take over - whether it's alcohol, drugs, women or something else.

If you're the owner of a QB-needy team, are you willing to give him several million dollars, 6 months a year of free time and the keys to your franchise?