OT: How did the Jets beat the Steelers today?

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think you all are missing the point of SteelerSteve and my comments. I think I can speak for both of us when I say that our point is that we'd rather have a QB like Big Ben behind OUR underperforming O-line. I don't think anyone would argue that Ben is a better QB than Brady, but given the situation with the Pittsburgh O-line right now, I'd rather have a QB like Ben who can scramble, avoid tackles, and still make plays, then a less-mobile passer such as Brady or Manning. Any other QB in the league (Brady included) would have absorbed significantly more sacks when faced with the kind of pressure ben has been getting this season. Does that make more sense?

Yes, that does make sense. Ben is a horse to take down.
Brady senses the rush and moves well in the pocket but I admit I'd hate to see him take hit after vicious hit from a bad OL.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't know whether you folks got the game on the cable in Boston, but I watched the whole game here in NYC. My impression was that the Steelers were flat-out not ready to play while the Jests were hitting hard and giving them new looks on D. there wasn't a whole lot of life out of the Steelers and Tomlin looked like a deer in the headlights on the sideline. At one point in the first H Big Ben was laughing on the sidelines at a really inappropriate time (like, they were losing and he'd been sacked a few times already).

Bottom line, I think this is a big lesson for Tomlin. His guys weren't ready to play and the buck stops there IMO.

 

[solman]

You shouldn't have let the 7-2 record fool you.

The Steelers are an average team. Average teams lose to bad opponents.

The Steelers play only one above average team all year, the New England Patriots.

Seattle and Cleveland may appear to be quality opponents at 6-4, but those 6-4 records were earned against REALLY bad teams.

 

[Triggerfish]

...... If they can step up their intensity and play at the level they are CAPABLE of, they can definitely compete with the Pats. If they can't limit the mistakes that have haunted them over the past few weeks though, they could be in for BIG trouble December 9th. I hope they can make it interesting!

I agree that The Steelers have just looked "flat" lately. No intensity on the field, or on the sideline. Seems like that has been a reoccuring problem with this team, and I hope the hell they snap out of this funk soon! It almost seemed like it started in the second half of the Baltimore game and has continued through the last two weeks. I think Tomlin is a decent coach who still has plenty to learn, but he definitely doesn't have the same motivating intensity as Cowher pre-superbowl years.

To be honest, I knew that game was over when it went to overtime. The Steelers just seem to lie down when the game goes OT. 3rd and 13 and you run a freakin draw play? C'mon! It's OT! At least TRY to get the 1st down! I think they need to work on their playcalling, as all season it seems to be too aggressive at times, and at other times, way too conservative.

 

[Fixit]

It looked to me like the Jets, knowing that Roethlisberger is great at shrugging off tackles and scrambling to keep plays alive, schemed to keep him in the pocket, where his deficiencies become pretty evident.

If kept in the pocket, he probably won't beat you, unless you really suck. Then again, the Jets really suck.

This might slow down all of the "Roethlisberger is a surefire Hall of Famer" talk for a week or two, at least.

 

[Triggerfish]

Actually, Ben is an efficient passer in the pocket. The problem is he rarely has a "pocket" to pass from this year, with the O-line not picking up the pass rush. I think Madden or one of the other idiot commentators said something about Ben being less efficient in the pocket a few weeks back, and now that's the token phrase out of everyone's mouth when talking about him. I watch every Steelers game, and I just can't see where he's coming from on that. Obviously a QB is going to be more comfortable throwing the ball when he has protection and isn't running for his life. I don't know...personally I think that's just a load of "sports talk" bunk.

 

[Fixit]

Actually, Ben is an efficient passer in the pocket.

Efficient? Yes. Dangerous, as he definitely is on the run? No.

 

[Triggerfish]

Efficient? Yes. Dangerous, as he definitely is on the run? No.

My point is that I don't think he's any less "dangerous" when in the pocket. The only reason he could be considered "dangerous" is due to the fact that MOST QB's aren't as capable of making a play when flushed out of the pocket. If he's so "dangerous" running for his life, wouldn't it stand to reason he'd be even MORE deadly if given enough protection to make reads from the pocket? So, to say he's dangerous out of the pocket, but "sucks" when in the pocket, doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Fixit]

My point is that I don't think he's any less "dangerous" when in the pocket. The only reason he could be considered "dangerous" is due to the fact that MOST QB's aren't as capable of making a play when flushed out of the pocket. If he's so "dangerous" running for his life, wouldn't it stand to reason he'd be even MORE deadly if given enough protection to make reads from the pocket? So, to say he's dangerous out of the pocket, but "sucks" when in the pocket, doesn't make much sense to me.

It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. Most of his big plays are a result of him shaking off a sack, running out of the pocket, and giving his receivers time to break away from the coverage. How many times has he done exactly that and thrown a lollipop to a STUNNINGLY WIDE OPEN receiver? How many times do you see him toss a horribly underthrown ball, only to see his receiver bail him out?

When kept in the pocket, he has to rely on his abilities to read defenses, find his open receivers, check down, and hit them. Those abilities are a tad unrefined.

His numbers look good, sure. But watching him is another matter. He can make plays, but he's nowhere close to playing at an elite QB level.

 

[Triggerfish]

I guess we're just looking at it from different angles. I agree that he has scrambled and bought time for his receivers to get open quite often this year, but it's not like he's PLANNING on it. It's a matter of necessity. If he had a decent O-line, he wouldn't have to scramble and make time for his receivers to get out of coverage. Instead, he'd be able to stand in the pocket and let them get open. I don't see how the argument can be made that he can't pass from the pocket, when a majority of the time, there IS no pocket! The fact that he doesn't complete as many passes from the pocket is a product of the bad O-line, not his inability to do it.

 

[Fixit]

I guess we're just looking at it from different angles. I agree that he has scrambled and bought time for his receivers to get open quite often this year, but it's not like he's PLANNING on it. It's a matter of necessity. If he had a decent O-line, he wouldn't have to scramble and make time for his receivers to get out of coverage. Instead, he'd be able to stand in the pocket and let them get open. I don't see how the argument can be made that he can't pass from the pocket, when a majority of the time, there IS no pocket! The fact that he doesn't complete as many passes from the pocket is a product of the bad O-line, not his inability to do it.

I'm not talking about just this season.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I bet a lot of people would pick Brady over Ben, but to each his own.

Anyone who has eyes...

 

[SteelerSteve]

Some folks prefer a QB who in the SuperBowl has, what, a 22 rating? Others prefer the greatest of all time, Tom Brady. Were Brady not available I'd take Manning in a heartbeat. The fact tht Rthlsbrgr really is one of the better QBs in the league is a sad testament to the dearth of quality QBs playing in the NFL this season.

First off, I am saying that behind a weak pass protecting line I would rather have Big Ben than any other qb. I dont think that Ben is a better passer than Brady and he probably wont ever be, Ben is a bit of a gunslinger at times which can get him into trouble. On to your next point, I never realized that as a pats fan personal stats mattered so much to you, I thought that that was more of a colts and bengals fan thing. I would think that as a patriots fan that you would be one of the people who realize that the only stat that matters is winning, thats it. If you watch that game though you will see that Ben did make some big throws that set up touchdowns and even took one in himself. Imo I would take a win in the superbowl with a 22 qb rating over a perfect qb rating and a loss any day.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Point is that despite religious defense by Ben's rump swabs, he was a serious detriment to his team in that SB win. Not a performance worthy of 'one of the better NFL QBs' unless you're a fan of Drew Bledsoe's SB performance.

 

[SteelerSteve]

Point is that despite religious defense by Ben's rump swabs, he was a serious detriment to his team in that SB win. Not a performance worthy of 'one of the better NFL QBs' unless you're a fan of Drew Bledsoe's SB performance.

I realize he didn't have a great game, but I think he at least deserves some respect for for taking his team from a sixth seed to the superbowl. He picked apart the Colts in a game that they almost had robbed from them, the Bengals and the Broncos. The fact is that an average or below average qb couldn't have done that.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I realize he didn't have a great game, but I think he at least deserves some respect for for taking his team from a sixth seed to the superbowl. He picked apart the Colts in a game that they almost had robbed from them, the Bengals and the Broncos. The fact is that an average or below average qb couldn't have done that.

I was speaking of the SB where he performed abyssmally. He did a fine job previously including against the Colts, a game I only heard on radio but enjoyed immensely. I said earlier that he was one of the top NFL QBs but any criticism no matter how much warranted by facts brings out the Big Ben whitewashers.

Ben vs the Jets and Manning vs San Diego are cases where folks can't somehow accept that the big guys just didn't get it done.

 

[SteelerSteve]

I was speaking of the SB where he performed abyssmally. He did a fine job previously including against the Colts, a game I only heard on radio but enjoyed immensely. I said earlier that he was one of the top NFL QBs but any criticism no matter how much warranted by facts brings out the Big Ben whitewashers.

Ben vs the Jets and Manning vs San Diego are cases where folks can't somehow accept that the big guys just didn't get it done.

There will always be games that a player will underperform. You cant say that Tom has never had a game where he didn't get it done. Like the AFCCG last season, or when they played the colts earlier that year looking inaccurate at times. Will I hold that against him? HELL NO, hes a hell of a player, but to call Ben overrated is unfair if you ask me. If anything he is underrated because up until this season he was stuck with a label as being merely a caretaker.

 

[Joker]

The Jets....your team folded to the JETS

props for even showing your face...really

the Jets????

 

[SteelerSteve]

The Jets....your team folded to the JETS

props for even showing your face...really

the Jets????

Yeah, Yeah, I know. Let it out of your system

 

[smokin3000gt]

The Jets....your team folded to the JETS

props for even showing your face...really

the Jets????

You mean like almost losing to the ravens? and the eagles?
I don't even have to bring up Miami a few years back..

That's why they play the game.. any given Sunday.