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OT: Gosselin "Tony Romo among the NFL's All-Time Elite Great QBs"

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  2. RayClay

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    #75 Jersey

    Not that I could care much less about idolizing QBs, but this stat is great. Read it, memorize it.

    lol
  3. DisgruntledTunaFan

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    Gosselin is one of the Dallas Morning News staff writers in the Sports section - however, he is NOT a Cowboys homer, and is very objective in all of his NFL analysis. If anything, he seems to show a slight-bias toward our NFCE rivals Philadelphia Eagles(and with good reason - Andy Reid and Joe Banner have made this team one of the elite for years, despite not winning a SB).

    If this were Tim Cowlishaw, then yes, it would be a much different story. Cowlishaw is a big Cowboys-homer.
  4. livinginthe past

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    Gosselin is normally one of the most reliable, level-headed footbal writers out there.

    This, however, is an absurd piece of 'journalism'.

    Its not clear to me exactly how he determines 'QB efficiency' - its just a bunch of hyperbole to keep the Cowboys fans happy in the offseason.
  5. Calciumee

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    [​IMG]

    Bad gif I know :)
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  6. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    We also lost Flozell Adams this offseason(he eventually went to Pittsburgh, didn't he?) - this could be a HUGE loss for us next year. You saw the Vikings playoff game - when Adams went down with a calf injury, Jared Allen just schooled Doug Free(who will be next year's LT starter). Otherwise, we had receivers open all over the field.

    If anything - Romo has had the luxury of a massive, albeit nasty offensive line with Adams, Kosier, Gurode, Davis, and Columbo, which has opened up gaping holes for Felix and Barber in addition.
  7. DarrylS

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    Thought Gosselin was a better writer than this.. lots of what might happens in that article...
  8. Rob0729

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    I don't know if I would put Romo among the elite of the currently active QBs. He isn't better than Manning, Brady, or Brees. I would take Rivers over him. Roethlisberger minus he off the field BS too. Flacco and Ryan may surpass him too.

    I like Gosselin, but I think this article is joke and just pandering to his Cowboy fan base.
  9. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm assuming that when Gosselin says Romo "debuts in 2010 as the third most-efficient quarterback in history", he is referring to QB rating - though according to this list he is third among active quarterbacks, and 4th among all quarterbacks.

    NFL Career Passer Rating Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

    As you can see from that list, it is extremely top heavy with quarterbacks who are playing today. Only two of the top 30 quarterbacks did not play in the '90's or later for apart of their careers, and 13 of the top 15 are still active today. That is due to the change in the way the game is played, which is due to rule changes over the years to pass interference penalties. So while Gosselin is technically correct in his statement about Romo based on that ranking, that doesn't make him the 4th best quarterback of all time. Though Gosselin does not make that statement, I could see where somebody could accuse him of implying that to be the case. Nowhere does Gosselin state that in his opinion Romo is better than Montana, Brees, Manning, Brady or others. However, he should have clarified what he meant when he said 'most efficient QB of all time'.

    It seems to me the main point of the article is that it might be possible for Romo to break some NFL passing records this year because of the other players that Dallas has on offense, but given the history of the NFL's most prolific passing offenses, it is something Dallas may not want to see happen. I don't really disagree with either point.
  10. Deus Irae

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    Very sloppy work by Gosselin. Perhaps it was his last piece on the way out the door for vacation.
  11. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    With the addition of the highly touted rookie Dez Bryant,I assume Gosselin thinks Romo will have a monster year and if Bryant proves Jerry Jones correct in his draft gamble,then he certainly could be right that Romo will prove an Elite QB within the next 2 years..but as of now he is about the 5th to 8th best QB in the league...far from the top IMO.
  12. Deus Irae

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    The Patriots were a ridiculous helmet catch away from a win, in a game where the team lost its starting RG and had a completely immobile QB while playing against the league's best D-line.

    The Rams had one of the worst SB game plans in history, and still almost got that game into overtime. I think that Patriots team gets a bit underrated, and that Ty Law interception would have ripped that game open had the penalty not been called, but N.E. still owes a big "Thank you!" to Mike Martz for that win.

    The Raiders weren't even the #1 scoring offense in football the year that Bucs beat them (that honor went to the 8-8 Chiefs). The Bucs, however, were the #1 defense in the league, and were being coached by Gruden, who knew everything the Raiders were going to try.

    The 1984 Dolphins lost the Super Bowl to a 15-1 team that was the #2 scoring offense AND the #1 scoring defense in the league that season.

    There's nothing wrong with having a high powered offense.


    Gosselin really should have worked on that article some more.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  13. PatsWickedPissah

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    Good points but age has taken your brain cells. Law's INT went for a TD. The fumble recovery and TD by TBKY Jones was called back, rightfully so, on a Willie M holding penalty on Faulk. Their Faulk, not ours.
  14. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    And all along I figured you had to win at least a ring or two... errr, scratch that, a single postseason game, even, to be considered an all-time great.
  15. Deus Irae

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    Ok, there's my one allowed mistake for the day. My point still stands though.




    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll have to go do some form of penance for my error.
  16. Leave No Doubt

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    And not be responsible for one of the biggest mess-ups ever at what was probably one of the most crucial times ever...Romo U Rock:D
  17. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

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    So just how pass happy has the league become? How much have rules crippled pass defense: How overrated a stat is passer rating?:

    1. Aaron Rodgers (26) 97.2 2005-2009 gnb
    2. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM
    3. Philip Rivers (28) 95.8 2004-2009 sdg
    4. Tony Romo (29) 95.6 2004-2009 dal

    While Rodgers, Rivers, and Romo are all good, possibly great even, QBs they certainly aren't 3 of the top 4 passers EVER.
  18. MoLewisrocks

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    Romo made more sense than Gosslin.

    Which just goes to show you who the truly elite QBs are, the winners. The same argument Pat's fans had to wage for the first half of Brady's career to date... Prolific passers aren't always elite QB's...and visa versa.
  19. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    If anyone has a legit argument to why QB stats mean squat except for personal and public respect its Dan Marino

    Marino would give up all of those awesome records and stats for ONE Super Bowl ring.....He may go down forever as the best QB in NFL History to never win the BIG one and it was not him to blame,it was failure to gather a defense capable of shutting down thier opponents to which the Dolphins F.O. could not do for a decade + of Marino's greatness.

    Dan Fouts was another guy you could say was unfortunate.

    Now we shall see if Romo becomes another unfortunate QB in 10 years to join those 2.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  20. patriot lifer

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    Goose gets a lot of crap from Cowboys fans. He tends to be a bit of a debby-downer (albeit not at Borges' level). this is his way of pandering to the fanbase to get them off his back for awhile
  21. Deus Irae

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    In 1984, The Dolphins defense was the #7 scoring defense in the league. It was 12th in 1985. It was 4th in 1990 and 11th in 1992. The lack of a defense is an often overblown argument when it comes to Marino's failure to get a ring. Here are the scores in the losses of those years:

    38-16
    31-14
    44-34
    29-10

    Marino threw 2 interceptions in each of those losses, and only the Buffalo game in 1990 had the Dolphins put up any real amount of points.
  22. Bertil

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    This is EXACTLY why someone came up with the phrase: "There are Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics"!

    Romo...puh-Leeze
  23. AndyJohnson

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    If you look at Marinos #s in each playoff loss, they add up to awful.
    Its a double edged sword. Marino gets credit for 'carrying ' the team, while the running game was ignored and the defense on the field a lot, yet when they lose in the playoffs, everyone wants to give him none of the blame.
    If you set your team up to rely so heavily on one player, he shouldnt get excess credit for being relied upon when success and no blame when unsuccessful.
    If Miami ran the ball a lot, protected their D with ball control, they would have probably had the same level of success, and possibly won a ring, but Marino wouldn't be looked as the stat machine he is.
  24. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Marino won more than one playoff game in a year ONCE in his career, compared to Brady's 5 times, Montana's 5 and Peyton's 3, Favre 3,
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  25. SyN65

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  26. ausbacker

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    That really is an absurd article. Here's a list of QB's I'd prefer on the Patriots than Tony Romo.

    01. Tom Brady
    02. Drew Brees
    03. Peyton Manning
    04. Aaron Rogers
    05. Phillip Rivers
    06. Ben Roethlisberger
    07. Donovan McNabb
    08. Matt Ryan
    09. Joe Flacco
    10. Carson Palmer

    Elite really is a special class. For mine the elite class would be the top 3, possibly top 5 in a position. To make a comment in terms of being elite in an all time sense is just baffling.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  27. PatsFanSince74

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    This is actually a pretty good piece. The point of the article is to "dis" the QB stats after he introduces them. (The only thing I can figure when he cites Romo as "third most efficient" is that his Yards per Completion and TD's per attempt numbers are higher than Peyton's, Brady's and others, giving him a ever so slightly higher Pass Rating, for whatever that's worth.)

    But, in the end, his point is to highlight the lack of a correlation between having the best passing attack and winning the SB. He acknowledges that, while Romo might have a great stats year in 2010 with the Cowboys' personnel, such an accomplishment doesn't guarantee that the Cowboys will be playing a Home SB in February.

    Basically, he's making the point that many of us on this board have made for years in the "Joe vs. Dan" and "Peyton vs. Tommy" arguments: it's all about the bling and not about the stats. He even lets Tony have the final word:

    "At the end of the day, winning is what counts at my position," Romo said Wednesday before a promotional appearance for Starter apparel at an Arlington Wal-Mart. "As I get older, it doesn't matter to me if I throw for 100 yards a game or 400 if we win. You're a far better quarterback when you throw for 150 yards and win than when you throw for 320 and lose. Stats are just stats."

    That sounds like the 2001, 2003 and 2004 Patriots to me.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  28. MoLewisrocks

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    That wasn't his point, it was (to his credit) Romo's.

    I think the problem in assessing elite is the media changes the definition of what elite is to suit it's mood at any given time or allow it to dicate to the rest of us based on relationships. Guys who make their jobs easier always get an edge in the nods department.

    An elite QB should be someone who both passes the stats test and wins. A HOF caliber career by all measures. The media needs to get over it's need to crown guys incrementally based on momentary snapshots. Guys like Manning and Brady who have consistently performed at a high level over an extended period of time and have the hardware that really matters (and in particular a Lombardi or three not to mention a record or two) are elite.

    After last year Brees is legitimately knocking on the door to be #3 among present day elite
    QB's. Ben is still a tick below that even with 2 Lombardi's because of his maddening inconsistency and the fact that they won the first one almost in spite of him. Ditto Favre in his dotage surrounded by talent. He'll be a first ballot HOF'er based mostly on longevity
    based stats following an early Lombardi and because he's a commanding character.

    Warner was a prolific passer when all the planets were aligned right and he won a ring and they will probably enshrine him based on longevity too although he was a journeyman backup for a good chunk of his career whose great good fortune was backing up a draft bust on his personal back nine. McNabb IMO isn't even in the enshrinement conversation anymore unless he accomplishes something really big in DC like actually getting to a personal second superbowl.

    Nobody else is legitimately in the discussion just yet no matter how badly the media keeps wanting them to be. Rivers, Eli, Palmer, Romo, Ryan, Rogers and even Schaub or, I suppose although I doubt it Cutler, each have a shot at yet emerging as elite by the time their careers wind down in another several seasons or more, but they could all just as likely end up the inigmatic shooting stars like Jake Delhomme that mediots just get hung up on like schoolgirls. The Derek Anderson one year hype driven pro bowl talents of the world...like so many mediots were convinced Brady was in 2001 until he emphatically proved them wrong.

    Romo hasn't done a thing in Dallas yet. That may not be entirely his fault, and the same could be said for all of the above, but then again he's a gunslinger by nature and he hasn't yet shown he's willing to consistently discipline or extend himself and in the process consistently elevate his generally quite talented teamates performances. And the same can be said for most of the above.
  29. Fencer

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    I wouldn't assume the headline reflects his opinion.

    And the article itself didn't seem that bad.
  30. jmt57

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    As we have seen before, the biggest problem with the article is not the column itself; it is the title. The title would lead you to believe that Gosselin goes on to give you his opinion that Romo is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time, but that is not the case at all. A better title might have been something like "Tony Romo: stats versus rings", but that would not have generated nearly as much interest.

    Other than the title, the only problem I have with the actual column is that Gosselin never defined what the "third most efficient" quarterback is. He mentions having enough pass attempts to qualify for the all time NFL leader board, but he never says exactly what the ranking is that he is referring to. As a result, that leaves many readers to reach the conclusion that it is his opinion that Romo is the third best QB in NFL history, rather than pointing out that Romo now ranks third all time in some category.

    All the column really says is that Romo ranks high in some alltime NFL passing categories, which means he might be in a position to break some records based on the skill players around him - but winning a championship is more important than stats.
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