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  1. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Comparing the Colts and the Patriots position by position.

    And needless to say many of the hardcore sheep on Indy Star can't agree enough with this objective Colt's fans crack assessment:


    "I know that I’m going to be accused of feeding the trolls, but here goes.

    Quarterback—Manning vs. Brady

    At this point in time, the race to determine who is the best QB in the National Football League has come to resemble the 1973 Belmont Stakes. Peyton’s in the lead by 27 lengths and everyone else is competing for 2nd place.

    Advantage: Colts Well, I'll give him this - Manning may more strongly resemble Secretariat, but Tommy is the QB with the triple crown rings to match Big Red's. Peyton is like one of those Preakness triple crown spoilers who snag one jewel in a weak field when the favorite developed a quarter crack...

    RB—Addai vs. Moroney

    If any position is equal on these two teams, this is surely it. Picking between Moroney and Addai is like choosing between Dickerson and Dorsett. I’d rather have Dickerson, but I wouldn’t be unhappy with the Cowboy back, either.

    Advantage: None (I guess experienced backups and change of pace backs and fullbacks don't count...)


    WR—Harrison, Wayne, Gonzalez, Moorehead, Thorpe, Hall vs. Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Jackson, Gaffney, Caldwell and Brown

    The Patriots have what has to be considered one of the deepest pools of WR talent ever assembled. If only they could figure out a way to line up in a 7 WR set. But, since they can’t, let’s look at the top of the top few rungs of the depth chart.

    In Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, the Colts have assembled one of the elite pass receiving tandems in league history, right up there with the Marks Brothers; Stallworth and Swann; and Rice and Taylor. 1st round pick, Anthony Gonzalez gives them a legit game breaking type talent in the slot, and a bevy of high quality players will vie for 4th place on the depth chart. .

    A lot’s been made of the Patriot’s offseason spending spree at WR. In Welker and Stallworth, they’ve brought in two pretty decent receivers. But, it’s the acquisition of Randy Moss that’s garnered huge attention. My guess is that the preseason magazines like Lindy’s and Athlon will gush effusively over the pickup. They’ll rank the receivers and tell us that Moss is one of the elite half dozen. The problem is that that hasn’t been true in years, and it certainly isn’t true after two years in Oakland in which he, essentially, quit playing. At his best, Randy is a one note, run 40 yards down the sideline, leap into the air and catch the ball over the DB, receiver. At his worst, he’s a cancer in the locker room. The bottom line is that God gave him all the talent in the world, and he’s squandered most of it.

    Advantage: Colts


    TE—Dallas Clark, Ben Utecht and Bryan Fletcher vs. Ben Watson and Kyle Brady I guess he doesn't know we have 2 more TE on the roster...

    The problem Dallas Clark has in gaining recognition is that he’s the 3rd option behind two future hall of famers. For the Dolphins, or any team with less talent at the receiver position, he’d catch 80 balls a year and routinely rack up 1,000 yards. As far as Utecht and Fletcher are concerned, put either one of them on most team’s rosters and they’d be penciled in #1.

    In Ben Watson, the Patriots have a legit talent at TE who stacks up well against most every other TE in the league. Kyle Brady is a fine blocker who brings somewhat less talent at catching the ball to the huddle.

    The difference, though, is that Clark is a big play; get open 40 yards downfield, kind of weapon.

    Advantage: Slight Colts


    OL: Glenn, Lilja, Saturday, Scott, Diem vs. Kaczur, Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Light

    When talking about Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday, it’s tough to find enough superlatives. Both are pro bowl fixtures, and either one of them could end up in Canton. Aren't these the same guys Manning and Polian were tossing under busses in 2005? Ryan Diem is a decent bookend at RT, and the Guards are solid.

    The Patriots, on the other hand, have 4 solid players in Light, Mankins, Koppen and Neal. RT, Nick Kaczur, while not a liability, isn’t much more than workmanlike at RT. All things considered, it’s a credit to the Patriot’s coaching staff that they’ve been able to accomplish so much with so little. :eek:

    Advantage: Big Colts


    DL: Mathis, Brock, McFarland and Freeney vs. Warren, Wilfork and Seymour

    In Freeney and Mathis, the Colts have the best DE tandem in the league. Unfortunately, the situation isn’t as bright at DT. McFarland was solid, last season, and I have to figure that a full offseason in the system will allow him to elevate his play. But, as long as they have Brock at DT, they’re going to be vulnerable.

    The Patriots have put together one of the top 4 Defensive Lines in the league. Seymour is superb, and Wilfork and Warren aren’t far behind.

    Right now, any rational person would have to give the edge to New England. That could change, however, if Corey Simon manages to make a comeback—unlikely—or if Quinn Pit**** fulfills the potential he showed at Ohio State. :rofl:

    Advantage: Patriots


    LB: Keiaho, Brackett and Morris vs. Colvin, Bruschi, Vrabel and Thomas

    This position could be a huge asset for the Colts, or a huge mess. Questions abound. Can Keiaho replace Cato June? Is Brackett big enough for the position? Was Rob Morris’s performance, once he made the transition to the outside, an illusion or a preview of coming attractions?

    The Patriots have questions, too. They’re moving Vrabel back inside, where he’s less effective, and you don’t know how he’ll react to the move. There’s also the age question, which also applies to Tedy Bruschi. Life’s been hard to the gallant warrior. He’s played 12 years, and started to show signs, last year, of slowing down. On the outside, Roosevelt Colvin shows little of the talent he exuded at Chicago, and the Patriots are depending on Adalius Thomas to step in and become the next Mike Vrabel.

    For the past few years, the Patriots have been playing a game of Russian roulette with age. They haven’t drafted well at the position, depending on quick fixes in free agency. It didn’t work with Colvin, and this year’s candidate to step up is Adalius Thomas. They’ve got to hope that he isn’t the product of the system in Baltimore, looking good because he lined up next to Ray Lewis. Frankly, after watching the Ravens play Indy in the playoffs, I suspect that he’ll be a huge bust. He did a nice job covering Dallas Clark, but did little else to impress. He was ineffective as a blitzer, and if the run wasn’t right at him, he seemed half hearted, unable to shed blocks and get to the play.

    Advantage: Even :rofl:


    DB’s: Jackson, Hayden, Sanders and Bethea vs. Samuel, Hobbs, Harrison and Hawkins

    For the Colts, much is riding on how Jackson and Hayden make the transition to starters. The tail end of last season and the playoffs offered some reassurance, but you never know until you know. At Safety, if Sanders can stay healthy, he and Bethea are the best Safety tandem in the league.

    For the Patriots, life is bleak at DB. The only player worth keeping on a roster is in the middle of a nasty contract dispute. At the other Corner, Hobbs is solid—unless he has to face an elite level receiver. As far as the Safeties are concerned, Hawkins is a nonentity and Harrison brings little to the table other than toughness. He no longer has the speed to play the position and excels, only, at dealing out cheap shots. Anybody got Rodney's email address handy...

    For the Patriots, Samuel is the trump card. He’s an elite level Cornerback, and the Colts have no one with anywhere near as much talent. Well, he got that half right... Unfortunately for them, however, the cupboard is bare almost everywhere else.

    Advantage: Colts :rofl:



    http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199232
     
  2. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    This was almost hysterical. I'll give him the offense part. He's got a legitimate argument but there is no facet in the defense which is even slightly comparable to give them a slight,even and certainly not a edge. Take away Bob Sanders and they are the 31st worst defense in the NFL. Too bad we didn't have Rodney when we played them last lol.
     
  3. skaIownsIyou

    skaIownsIyou On the Game Day Roster

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    wow?? they dont know anythign over at indy? lol
     
  4. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    It's like the Colts fans think exactly like the team. Sure, some of our top 2 guys don't match up, but at the end of the game when it's time to make plays, the depth on the Pats will get it done.

    And btw, Colts' defensive backfield is nowhere near ours. Even without Asante, Hobbs, Meriweather, Eugene and Rodney are 100 times better than a Colts backfield where 2 guys have never started an NFL game. They are the only team who gets hurt when they lose a sorry CB like Jason David. :rofl:
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .



    When do we play these guys again?? Can we ask Goodell to put us together in week one??




    //
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Talk about an inflated view of a team, great locker room material...
     
  7. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What hallucinatory drug are they dumping in the water there that everyones drinking? Or at least whats this guy smoking,it an't tobacco.
     
  8. basement zombie

    basement zombie Practice Squad Player

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    Someone ought to right-click/save that 'post' for future reference :D
     
  9. Peytonsbetter

    Peytonsbetter On the Game Day Roster

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    Depth? All I ever hear about here is how the Colt's can only beat the pats backups. Guess that "depth" isn't all its cracked up to be.:D

    At any rate, Ken's pretty much spot on with his offensive comparisons, IMO. Its on the defensive side of the ball where he loses me. The Colt's aren't better at ANY position than the pats on defense, with the possible exception of safety when Bob Sanders is healthy.
     
  10. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The TE thing is just stupid. Ben Watson was better than Dallas Clark last year and the tight end he forgets is Dave Thomas (maybe Mills too), who has future Pro Bowler written all over him. And that isn't my homeristic view that is what all the beat writers were saying after training camp last year.

    And interesting that he said Clark is more of a deep threat when Watson averaged more per catch than Clark, even without the wide receivers to open up the middle of the fied.

    So I'll take Watson, Thomas, Brady (Mills) anyday over Clark Utech and Fletcher.

    :rofl:
     
  11. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar In the Starting Line-Up

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    You should surf over to that site some time and read through a lot of the threads relating to the Patriots(there's quite a few!). In doing so, you'll experience 4 stages of emotion:
    Stage #1::mad: Madness - after 2 or 3 posts where Indy fans say the Pats are dead, they will never beat the Colts again, and that our QB is way over-rated and not even in the top 5 QB's currently in the NFL!
    Stage #2: :D Amused - this one lasts a little longer than stage 1 as you spend a while scrolling through most of the threads chuckling to yourself as you occasionally sip on an adult beverage!
    Stage #3: Sympathy - in a warped kind of way you actually start to feel a little sorry for most of these sad, little, tortured, and mostly illiterate fans that have had very little to cheer about up until this year.
    Stage #4: :eek: Total Shock - as you come out of the brief period of stage 3 you will stare blankly at your computer screen as you come to the realization that there are a lot of silly, mis-guide people, such as those on the Indy Star forum, running around living every-day lives similar to ours. You will ponder for a few minutes wondering how these same people even make it out of their houses in the morning where turning a doorknob is required. Ultimately, you will walk away from the computer screen relieved knowing that you were fortunate enough to either have been born a Patriots fan or chose to become one somewhere along the line!:cool:
     
  12. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    On offense I think even the most die hard Patriot fan recognizes that having a great WR corps on paper and on the field are two different things... and no offense to Ben Watson too but I think the Colts have every right to be thinking their TEs rank higher than ours. I can't expect they wouldn't view Manning as slightly better than Brady either, though one play different in the AFC Championship and everyone is singing a VERY different tune about Manning.

    The defensive portion is just downright delusional though.
     
  13. stattry

    stattry On the Roster

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    Before you feel "too bad" for the colts fans, remember the facts are the facts: The Colts are the champions and have beaten the pats 3 straight times (twice in Foxboro).

    All the discussion about whether the colts can beat a full-strength pats team and the hope for this season and good free agent signings and strong cap management and general positive outlook for the Pats doesn't change those facts. Colts fans don't need to be pitied right now.
     
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The thing that caught my attention as I lurked though was the 27 lengths assessment of the gap between Manning and whomever <ahem> else was battling for #2. Needing a change of pace chuckle I then knew I must read the thread through...

    All but the most delusional Colts fans know that Manning and Brady are 1a and 1b in order of loyalties. It's only the insecure head in the sand ostriches on that board who need to fabricate alternate universe assessments like this. The mentality over there is almost one of having to cling to the top spot having once actually achieved it (as opposed to believing as they were told for 5 years they are the team to beat only to watch their team be eventually, almost predictably, beaten). I think as a fan base, as Pete Shepard likes to say on WEEI, they are psychologically damaged.

    They complain vigorously about the number of Pat's threads on Indy Star and the eschew the very existence of their oddly long standing base resident troll presence. What they fail to grasp is it's their own insecurity that fascinates that core resident base and fuels the Pat's threads which are mostly started by their own insecure Colts fans.

    One of their rationalizations this off season is that all our acquisitions prove is that we are/were a franchise in dissaray, so far behind the immortal SB XLI champs that we desperately went Snyder in a feeble attempt to close the immense gap between the teams. They are convinced going forward that all they need is Manning, his receivers and 3-4 strategically selected games with a momentarily healthy Bob Sanders and they are assured to be the new NFL dynasty.

    If I were Manning or Dungy I'd be more afraid of that fan base and it's entitled mentality seeping into the team than I'd be of the prospect of undertaking a defense of title with a bullseye on my back with scant capacity to account for all the veteran losses and forced to start marginal backups or rookies at a half dozen positions that are woefully thin on functional depth.

    Dungy earned his salary last year, and he'll be under pressure to earn it again this year.
     
  15. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Let me see, the 32nd rated Defesne has a better LB corps, and better secondary, and is tied with the Patriots defesnsive line, on a Defense that finished in the top three in the League.

    Great Analysis.

    Not counintg that the that 32nd rated Defesne lost both starting CBs; a starting S; 2 starting LBs; and two starting DTs. Now that might actually be an improvement,considering how bad they were, but not when they have no one to replace them.

    Enough said.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  16. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar In the Starting Line-Up

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    Lighten up Francis!
     
  17. EnglishPatriot

    EnglishPatriot On the Roster

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    I think the O Line bit is actually pretty harsh too. People more knowledgable than me have labelled Mankins the next Hutchinson, the consensus best guard in the NFL. Certainly none of us are complaining about his drafting. To call him "solid", a word also used for the Colts guards, seems an understatement.

    Light, whilst inconsistent (basically hates Taylor), managed to keep Merriman quiet for a whole game at San Diego. The same Merriman who, as a rookie, tore apart Indies undefeated season. I will never forget the clip of him walking Ilja (sp) backwards, easy as anything, before hitting Manning once more.

    Koppen again is, imo, much more than solid.

    Oh, and the difference between the two sets of staff is bigger than the difference in D Line quality. :D

    On D, the ONLY Colt player I'd take is Sanders. I'd happily take Moss, Brady, Mankins or Maroney over their Colt counterparts though.
     
  18. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

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    Deep in their heart of hearts Colts fans know they had no business beating the Pats in the AFC Championship last year, and if not for the flu they never would have seen a Super Bowl. This is the root of their insecurity.
     
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, they were in a very, very dark place just before the half. Particularly coming as it did on the heels of Adam having to single handedly get them past the Ravens. Irsay could have moved the team to LA at half time and they would have been ambivalent save a few die hard cheerleaders.

    They have also picked up a whole new crop of bandwaggon fans since handily smiting the mighty Rex Grossman led Bears. Most of whom were still fully expecting the Bears to somehow ruin their long awaited best season ever right up to kickoff.

    In some ways they have long reminded me of Dolphin fans, who tend to overstate things in an effort to bolster their own tenuous confidence.
     
  20. stattry

    stattry On the Roster

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    Careful - Taking shots at the Colts right now can look like sour grapes because, unlike the dolphins, they finally made good on the years of "promise"
     

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