OT: Eid Mubarak!

[Mike the Brit]

BritPat, before our friends in the U.S. have got their Dunkin Donuts coffee, I should tell you that the worst post in this thread (now deleted) was by someone in the UK -- actually, someone who seems to come from where I do, which makes me deeply ashamed.

This shouldn't be a political thread so let's just say that being a Muslim can be a tough row to hoe in any Western country, as can not being a Muslim in Islamic ones. Patsfans should be a place where it isn't.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Ian can you do something about this damn thread please?

 

[BritPat]

At least one of the others should be deleted, DarMan's post is incredibly insensitive and offensive. He's pretty much calling Nab a terrorist.

That's disgusting.

 

[Ironman44]

OP, I suspect if you were of any other faith beside Islam, you would have had absolutely no problems in this thread. So ignore the prejudice and ignore the ignorance. I was raised a Catholic and I have not practised for a very long time. But I do practice tolerance, thanks to having two wonderful parents who taught me to respect people of all religions. So peace be upon you dude and enjoy your festivities.

I personally am not the religious sort but I respect all people's beliefs and have absolutely nothing against Islam in particular .
However I think the opposite of what you said is true . Based on post I have read about Christianity by some on these forums , he would have been ripped to shreds .

I am not entering into a debate and this will be my only post in this thread.

To the OP may you find peace and happiness in whatver brings you spiritual comfort .

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

BritPat, before our friends in the U.S. have got their Dunkin Donuts coffee, I should tell you that the worst post in this thread (now deleted) was by someone in the UK -- actually, someone who seems to come from where I do, which makes me deeply ashamed.

This shouldn't be a political thread so let's just say that being a Muslim can be a tough row to hoe in any Western country, as can not being a Muslim in Islamic ones. Patsfans should be a place where it isn't.

At least one of the others should be deleted, DarMan's post is incredibly insensitive and offensive. He's pretty much calling Nab a terrorist.

That's disgusting.

Oh no! He was insensitive! Are you ok? Can I get you a band-aid? Or better yet an ounce of testosterone? How could anyone link Islam to terrorism? That is such a stretch! Why I just made some new muslim friends awhile back at the Boston marathon. They were nice young lads bringing pressure cookers to the homeless shelter...I think. All muslims are just great great people! They are even nicer in Britain so I see why we have British Pats fans defending the religion of peace. Why just the other day I saw this nice Brit Muslim fella spreading his religion in the streets of London! The only thing I couldnt figure out about him was why his hands were red. Oh well maybe he was painting messages of peace and used too much red.

 

[resdubwhite]

I am always amazed by what people on this site take exception to.

To the OP. have a happy spiritual holiday.

 

[nabwong]

Good morning! It started to get tense recently in this thread. I am so overwhelmed by your support. Recently, I have learned of a story of Jesus. If he had sat down between his disciple and a sinner, he would more likely invite the sinner out to dinner. So, i am hoping for an invitation to dinner

Sharia, like jihad, is another word taken hostage. Originally, it means universal human rights, like the right to vote, free speech or the freedom of faith, not unlike the American constitution. However, some people have made it a term of jurisprudence. I personally reject that definition as do a lot of others. But the media too has define it as such instead of correcting it so I can't do anything about that.

 

[JR4]

......
Islam is a religion of peace, of acceptance, of love.
.......

Really? Have you peeked into the Koran which is their Bible


check this out:
Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return. Quran 3:28; "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 52

or this

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.
Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206


Friend this is not a religion of "peace, of acceptance, of love."

check this out for more enlightenment
Koran Quotes | Quran | Quotes about Islam

And if any Muslim leaves the faith at minimum they are ostracized
in their community, If they live in Iran and other Muslim countries
they can face imprisonment and death with beheading. Even if a Muslim
reads the Koran and other writings and feels that this not a religion I
can be proud of they would be in fear if they reject it.

I respect any religion that does not promote hate against
others who do not believe the way the do. Islam is a religion
that promotes hate against all non-believers of Islam.

 

[nabwong]

Really? Have you peeked into the Koran which is their Bible


check this out:
Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return. Quran 3:28; "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 52

or this

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.
Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206


Friend this is not a religion of "peace, of acceptance, of love."

check this out for more enlightenment
Koran Quotes | Quran | Quotes about Islam

And if any Muslim leaves the faith at minimum they are ostracized
in their community, If they live in Iran and other Muslim countries
they can face imprisonment and death with beheading. Even if a Muslim
reads the Koran and other writings and feels that this not a religion I
can be proud of they would be in fear if they reject it.

I respect any religion that does not promote hate against
others who do not believe the way the do. Islam is a religion
that promotes hate against all non-believers of Islam.

If I said, you have misunderstood those verses, you wouldn't believe me right? Because there are the same verses in the bible also. Also, there is no compulsion in faith and you can leave Islam except for the will of real bad men judging them.

 

[JR4]

There are two facts here:

.........

Personally, I believe that the Universe was created in the Big Bang, but also that the existence of the Big Bang does not require denying the existence of God. That is my right.

This is interesting. The Big Bang.

Did the "Big Bang" result in the Universe we perceive?

Strange question right? Suppose the nature of the Creator is such that
"TIME" is only a parameter in the creative process.

Suppose when the Creator creates anything it comes into existence with
a Past, Present, and POTENTIAL Future.

So say 6000 years ago the Creator created the Universe. It came into existence with planets revolving around Suns and comments streaking
though the universe. It came into existence with the Universe expanding into space beyond.

Then as we humans begin to understand the universe and trace all the movements of the universe back in time to one singularity and
call it the "Big Bang"

In this scenario, the Big Bang is the consequence of the Creative moment.

 

[Mike the Brit]

At least one of the others should be deleted, DarMan's post is incredibly insensitive and offensive. He's pretty much calling Nab a terrorist.

That's disgusting.

Yeah -- that's what Mods are for.

Look, I'll tell you a story.

In the 80s I lived in Camden. As I went up and down the Kentish Town Road I'd see a wall on which someone had written "Kill all queers". Someone else had come along and crossed out that last word and written another on top of it so it read "Kill all bigots". I'm really sorry I never took a picture of that wall because I think it tells you just about all you need to know about what's wrong with the world ...

 

[JR4]

If I said, you have misunderstood those verses, you wouldn't believe me right? Because there are the same verses in the bible also. Also, there is no compulsion in faith and you can leave Islam except for the will of real bad men judging them.

I'm open, Please correct my understanding of the words
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous"

Does the word War mean something other than
"active hostility or contention" at a minimum?
I do not believe in Islam, so am I not an infidel?

 

[BTTA]

Sharia, like jihad, is another word taken hostage. Originally, it means universal human rights, like the right to vote, free speech or the freedom of faith, not unlike the American constitution. However, some people have made it a term of jurisprudence. I personally reject that definition as do a lot of others. But the media too has define it as such instead of correcting it so I can't do anything about that.

Thanks for this. I'm a little more knowledgeable this morning. You are doing something about it.

And thanks for the good wishes. I hope the net-net of this post is positive for you.

As this post shows, we (people) aren't very good with the line between simply using the best of our faiths to support other people, and using our support for other people as a way to try and influence them without their invitation to do so. All this distress here isn't about you, its about all of us.

 

[nabwong]

I'm open, Please correct my understanding of the words
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous"

Does the word War mean something other than
"active hostility or contention" at a minimum?
I do not believe in Islam, so am I not an infidel?

Firstly, there is a problem with the translation into English.
"Many Muslims state that Dawood's translation of the Qur'an is inaccurate and misleading,[1][2] and criticize the translator of having an anti-Islam bias.[3]"
N. J. Dawood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The arabic is very different. Here is a more accurate translation from Asad. I hope everyone in future will check Asad first and if not available, Yusuf Ali. These are the 2 most accurate among those who love peace.

By the way, the translation is not Qur'an. The Qur'an is really not translatable. Arab has 3 to 4 times the vocabulary of english. So a lot of words with subtle difference in arabic are not able to be reproduced and the words translators use are just the closest equivalent. Asad and Yusuf Ali were linguist, therefore had a higher command of english than the other translators. So forgive me, but I will use the translations from Asad.

(3:28) LET NOT the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers - since he
who does this cuts himself off from God in everything - unless it be to protect yourselves against them in this
way. But God warns you to beware of Him: for with God is all journeys' end.


Immediately, we see a big difference in the words, tone and intent. Let's see the ground rules. The Qur'an is addressing the individual directly. So I will only take this in the context of myself.

Interpretation of 3:28.
Believers represents belief (attitude or mindset) and non-believers represents non-belief, which is the absence of belief in God and God's words. So God says I shouldn't eat pork. But if I'm close to dying from hunger and the ONLY thing I can eat is pork, I should eat pork for self preservation. So this has nothing to do with 2 different groups of people; it could but I don't understand it that way.

This is my understanding. As a guide, the more literal the verse seems, the most layers it could have.

Also Mods: Instead of a celebration thread, this has become something else. So I understand if you move this thread.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Yeah -- that's what Mods are for.

Look, I'll tell you a story.

In the 80s I lived in Camden. As I went up and down the Kentish Town Road I'd see a wall on which someone had written "Kill all queers". Someone else had come along and crossed out that last word and written another on top of it so it read "Kill all bigots". I'm really sorry I never took a picture of that wall because I think it tells you just about all you need to know about what's wrong with the world ...

Ha ha perfect! You made a post to show how open minded and tolerant you were and how we close-minded people should embrace our muslim brothers and you used an example about intolerance of homosexuality! Do you see the irony there boy?????? Hello Mcfly!!!! Anyone home???? How about we hold hands with our gay brothers and sisters and head to ....lets say Saudi Arabia...or Eqypt,Iran,Iraq, wherever and have a big old rainbow lovefest of tolerance. If you notice hard things start to hit you dont be alarmed that's just stones. See Islam has a habit of stoning homosexuals until they die. That's much more tolerant than putting up a sign especially such an insensitive sign.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Nabwong seeing as how you are the resident expert on Islam and Sharia law could you answer a question for me? I was thinking about converting to the religion of peace and taking advantages of certain things that go hand in hand with it. I know that according to Sharia law I am allowed to beat my wife with a stick but I have heard that the stick can only be of a certain width. As I want to be a good muslim and not break the law can you clarify the exact width I will be able to use?

 

[The Brandon Five]

If I said, you have misunderstood those verses, you wouldn't believe me right? Because there are the same verses in the bible also. Also, there is no compulsion in faith and you can leave Islam except for the will of real bad men judging them.

As-salamu alaykum, nabwong.

Unfortunately the poster is not the only one who appears to misunderstand those verses. There are legions of mis-understanders giving your faith a bad name. That's not the posters' fault. We can fault them for being uncivil, maybe, but I think the guys flying planes into skyscrapers are a bigger issue, no?

I face a similar challenge as a Christian. The bad witness shown by many of my faith is sometimes downright discouraging.

We both have our work cut out for us.