OT draft watch list

[carolinatony]

But to be honest I'm not as concerned about OT as I am OG.


I have been wishing we would grab a OG the last 2 years. We need to improve the middle of the line imo and help the running game.
Be great to take Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho in the 1st and go defense and pass rush in the 2nd round with 2 picks.
We all know BB will trade one of the second's back to the next year.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

But to be honest I'm not as concerned about OT as I am OG.


I have been wishing we would grab a OG the last 2 years. We need to improve the middle of the line imo and help the running game.
Be great to take Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho in the 1st and go defense and pass rush in the 2nd round with 2 picks.
We all know BB will trade one of the second's back to the next year.

This is a lean year for OG's, but I think BB has to look closely at Mike Johnson of Alabama. Great nasty flat back run blocker from a zone blocking scheme that has cleared the way for Ingram and has done nicely in pass protection.

Another option for BB is to take a Carmini and move him to OG. Instead power and some nastiness. Has not played in a zone blocking scheme, but has decent technique and superior strength to maul even the biggest DT's.

 

[mayoclinic]

This is a lean year for OG's, but I think BB has to look closely at Mike Johnson of Alabama. Great nasty flat back run blocker from a zone blocking scheme that has cleared the way for Ingram and has done nicely in pass protection.

Another option for BB is to take a Carmini and move him to OG. Instead power and some nastiness. Has not played in a zone blocking scheme, but has decent technique and superior strength to maul even the biggest DT's.

I think it's a great year for OG's. If you discount Alex Mack and Eric Wood, who were centers, I don't think last year's draft could compare. I love Mike Johnson and think he would be a great fit, but I have him ranked only #4 on my top 5 list of OGs:

1. Mike Iupati, Idaho
2. Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin (junior, OT conversion)
3. Vlad Ducasse, UMass (OT conversion)
4. Mike Johnson, Alabama
5. Mike Pouncey, Florida (junior, reportedly leaving)

And that ignores OC Maurkice Pouncey from Florida, and OG Jon Asamoah from Illinois. Last year, only Mack, Wood, Max Unger and Andy Levitre could be considered in the same class as that group.

Not a bad group. I'm not sure when I can recall a better group of guard prospects.

 

[carolinatony]

I think it's a great year for OG's. If you discount Alex Mack and Eric Wood, who were centers, I don't think last year's draft could compare. I love Mike Johnson and think he would be a great fit, but I have him ranked only #4 on my top 5 list of OGs:

1. Mike Iupati, Idaho
2. Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin (junior, OT conversion)
3. Vlad Ducasse, UMass (OT conversion)
4. Mike Johnson, Alabama
5. Mike Pouncey, Florida (junior, reportedly leaving)

And that ignores OC Maurkice Pouncey from Florida, and OG Jon Asamoah from Illinois. Last year, only Mack, Wood, Max Unger and Andy Levitre could be considered in the same class as that group.

Not a bad group. I'm not sure when I can recall a better group of guard prospects.


Any of these would help us. Maybe BB grabs one of these and upgrades the OL. There are a lot of teams looking for OL this year. Chiefs,49ers,( have 2 1st rounders)and Pitts jump out.The Bears need help as well but have no 1st rounder.Good OL seem to go early.
We can go all defense in the 2nd round imo.

 

[mayoclinic]

Any of these would help us. Maybe BB grabs one of these and upgrades the OL. There are a lot of teams looking for OL this year. Chiefs,49ers,( have 2 1st rounders)and Pitts jump out.The Bears need help as well but have no 1st rounder.Good OL seem to go early.
We can go all defense in the 2nd round imo.

I doubt we need to grab an interior lineman in the 1st round, unless it's Iupati, who is a borderline 1st/2nd rounder right now. The other guys will probably go 2nd/3rd round.

Chicago has no 1st and no 2nd round pick. SF needs a RT to complement Joe Staley more than an interior lineman. They took Chilo Rachal from USC at OG in the 2nd round (#39) in 2008, and they took Dave Baas in the 2nd round in 2005 (#33, after we took Mankins at #32, who SF was said to covet), so they have 2 relatively young guards. It's much more likely that they target someone like Brian Bulaga (if he declares) or Anthony Davis (who declared today) as a RT to complement Staley.

Pittsburgh definitely needs interior line help, unless they move Willie Colon to RG, in which case they need RT help. Some have suggested that Max Starks doesn't have the footwork for LT, so they could move Colon inside and Starks to RT, in which case they would need a LT. Any way you slice it, I think there's a decent chance they take some kind of lineman in the first 2 rounds.

KC could definitely use line help somewhere as well. There's been some discussion as to whether Branden Albert is better suited at tackle or guard, so they could be more in the market for a tackle than an interior lineman. Russell Okung is a possibility early in the 1st round if they go OT, or they could go OG in the 2nd or early 3rd round.

Other teams that could use lineman include Detroit (more LT than anything else), Dallas (who needs a successor to Flozell Adams and could target someone like Anthony Davis, who fits their profile for massive linemen), Seattle (who needs a successor to Walter Jones and could also use help inside), and Washington (whose whole OL is a mess).

But with that number of prospects, there should be no need to jump in the 1st round on an interior lineman unless someone really stands out. I currently grade Iupati, Carimi (who hasn't declared yet) and Ducasse all about equal, so personally I'd rather target one OL and two DE/OLBs in the 2nd round, and go after a blue chip prospect in the 1st round, with a possible trade up.

 

[mayoclinic]

Has anyone seen Jared Veldheer from Division II Hillsdale (Michigan) play? He's a 6'8" 325# senior who has been timed in a 4.88 40. Supposedly very raw and plays too high, but with a lot of upside. Nolan Nawrocki from ProFootballWeekly, who is one of the better talent evaluators and draftniks out there, surprisingly had Veldheer listed as an honorable mention at OT on his 2009 All America team.

ProFootballWeekly.com - All-America team

I've never seen him play, and there's not much out about him. RealGM has the following scouting report on Veldheer:

Jared Veldheer, T, Hillsdale (MI). 6’8”, 322 pounds, 4.98 (est.) 40 time.

Positives: Giant bookend tackle with good athleticism and quickness. Natural knee bender with solid base strength. Extends his arms well and locks his shoulders with power. Good agility and balance for a taller tackle, can locate moving targets in space and eliminate them. Very good at run blocking outside and pulling across the formation. Tenacious. Anticipates moves well and is savvy to twists, stunts, and outside blitzes. Has reasonably quick feet and has improved his kick step outside. Played better against better competition (see GVSU and Mankato State).

Negatives: Needs lots of refinement on using his hands. Too passive with his hand punch and he often hits too high, surrendering leverage and not using his strength or length. Not real good at blocking down (inside), tends to lunge and reach with little power. Will get happy feet, doesn’t set and form a strong base all the time. Motor appears to run hot and cold. Bends at the waist too frequently, esp. when facing outside pass rush. Not real functionally strong for his size as a run blocker. Faces a big learning curve from D-II, though he did play in the best D-II league in the country.

Forecast: As one of the very few who has seen Veldheer play in person (twice), I can tell you the raw talent is there and legit. He is at least as good right now as Sebastian Vollmer was at the same point last year, and Vollmer has done quite well in New England as a greenhorn 2nd round rookie. Veldheer needs considerable work with his technique fundamentals, but he's proven to be a quick learner and dedicated worker. His performance in the Texas vs. the Nation week determines if he's a second rounder or a fourth-fifth rounder. Bet on the former.

RealGM Football: Wiretap Archives: Risdon's $.10 For Week 15

Wes Bunting from the National Football Post had this to say about Veldheer at the beginning of the season: "Veldheer looks like a star at Division-II Hillsdale College in Michigan. He’s a 6-8, 321-pound tackle who not only has the power to consistently destroy defenders in the run game, he also showcases impressive athletic ability and is said to run a sub-4.9 40. There aren’t too many offensive tackles at any level with this kid’s combination of size and speed, and he’s got enough upside to intrigue the scouting community."

Small-school prospects | National Football Post

Draftguys had Veldheer on their small school watch list last spring, and noted the following: "Veldheer is a raw but athletic left tackle with good knee bend but is inconsistent at finishing blocks. His size (6’7 5/8, 321), speed (4.9), and flexibility make him an intriguing late round possibility. He is also inconsistent at the second level but has the tools that scouts are looking for. Veldheer was named a 2nd team All-American by D2football.com and 1st team All-GLIAC selection as a junior after earning 2nd team All-GLIAC honors as a sophomore."

Draftguys.com - Draftguys TV, Mock Drafts, Rankings, and more!

Finally, FWIW, here's some youtube footage of Veldheer clean hanging 425 lbs:

YouTube - Jared Veldheer 425 lbs Hang Clean Hillsdale College 2009

The fact that Nawrocki has him on his honorable mention All-America team at OT (along with Bryan Bulaga, among others) is what impresses me the most. He sounds like a physical specimen, but I've never seen him play and have no idea how bad his technique is. The comparisons to Vollmer are nice, but Vollmer is a popular comparison these days for anyone who is 6'8" 320#, athletic, from a lesser known program, and considered somewhat raw.

Nevertheless, he sounds like a kid to keep an eye on, and a possible mid-to-late round developmental RT prospect.

Sounds like he'll be playing in the Texas vs. the Nation game, so hopefully we'll get to see him against better competition.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

And that ignores OC Maurkice Pouncey from Florida, and OG Jon Asamoah from Illinois.

I saw Asamoah play last year and thought he was a prospect, but needed to get much stronger. I must admit, I have not seen any Illinios games this season.

 

[carolinatony]

I doubt we need to grab an interior lineman in the 1st round, unless it's Iupati, who is a borderline 1st/2nd rounder right now. The other guys will probably go 2nd/3rd round.



I knew someone would say this but I do hope we take a solid OL on day one.
Brady gets hit way too much and IF any of you are old enough..do you
remember John Hannah?
When we ran the ball; he would knock the guy in front of him like a plow. Man, I wish we had someone like him.

I am not a fan of the Eagle but they have been a top teams for awhile.
Ever notice they ALWAYS take a OL in the first round? The Giants always go DL or LB and much can be said for the Steelers.

Just saying this because a team wins on the Lines.

 

[mayoclinic]

I doubt we need to grab an interior lineman in the 1st round, unless it's Iupati, who is a borderline 1st/2nd rounder right now. The other guys will probably go 2nd/3rd round.



I knew someone would say this but I do hope we take a solid OL on day one.
Brady gets hit way too much and IF any of you are old enough..do you
remember John Hannah?
When we ran the ball; he would knock the guy in front of him like a plow. Man, I wish we had someone like him.

I am not a fan of the Eagle but they have been a top teams for awhile.
Ever notice they ALWAYS take a OL in the first round? The Giants always go DL or LB and much can be said for the Steelers.

Just saying this because a team wins on the Lines.

I remember John Hannah well. He's also possibly the greatest OG of all time, so you're not going to just go out and find another John Hannah that easily. We invested a 1st round pick in OG Logan Mankins in 2005, so it's not like BB doesn't value the position.

The Eagles have spent a lot of picks and money on the OL, but they still need help. They spent a 1st round pick (#16 in 2004) on Shawn Andrews, and gave him a $40M deal, and he hasn't lived up to it. They traded a #1 for OT Jason Peters, and he has been inconsistent. They used a high #2 on OT Winston Justice, and he was a turnstyle for 3 years before settling in at RT this year. So just because you use high picks on the OL doesn't mean that you have a good solution.

You note the Eagles, Giants and Steelers as teams that build around their lines first. The Giants have invested 2 second round picks on their OL (Chris Snee and William Beatty), and the Steelers have no one currently drafted before the 3rd round (OT Max Starks). The last high pick I can recall the Steelers using on an OL was OG Kendall Simmons in 2002. The Steelers have used 2 picks in the first 2 rounds on a DL during the time BB has been HC of the Pats, DT Casey Hampton in 2001 and DE Ziggy Hood in 2009. DE starters Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel were 4th and 6th round picks.

BB has used 4 1st or 2nd round picks on an OL in 9 years, 3 of whom are currently starting with the team. Right now we have a #1 pick at OG in Mankins and two #2s at OT in Light and Vollmer. There's a decent chance that we'll spend another 1st or 2nd round pick on the OL this draft. We've also spent 3 #1 picks (Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork) and a #2 (Hill) on the DL. So I think we are one of the poster teams for building around the lines.

 

[SidelineSid]

I doubt we need to grab an interior lineman in the 1st round, unless it's Iupati, who is a borderline 1st/2nd rounder right now. The other guys will probably go 2nd/3rd round.

Chicago has no 1st and no 2nd round pick. SF needs a RT to complement Joe Staley more than an interior lineman. They took Chilo Rachal from USC at OG in the 2nd round (#39) in 2008, and they took Dave Baas in the 2nd round in 2005 (#33, after we took Mankins at #32, who SF was said to covet), so they have 2 relatively young guards. It's much more likely that they target someone like Brian Bulaga (if he declares) or Anthony Davis (who declared today) as a RT to complement Staley.

Pittsburgh definitely needs interior line help, unless they move Willie Colon to RG, in which case they need RT help. Some have suggested that Max Starks doesn't have the footwork for LT, so they could move Colon inside and Starks to RT, in which case they would need a LT. Any way you slice it, I think there's a decent chance they take some kind of lineman in the first 2 rounds.

KC could definitely use line help somewhere as well. There's been some discussion as to whether Branden Albert is better suited at tackle or guard, so they could be more in the market for a tackle than an interior lineman. Russell Okung is a possibility early in the 1st round if they go OT, or they could go OG in the 2nd or early 3rd round.

Other teams that could use lineman include Detroit (more LT than anything else), Dallas (who needs a successor to Flozell Adams and could target someone like Anthony Davis, who fits their profile for massive linemen), Seattle (who needs a successor to Walter Jones and could also use help inside), and Washington (whose whole OL is a mess).

But with that number of prospects, there should be no need to jump in the 1st round on an interior lineman unless someone really stands out. I currently grade Iupati, Carimi (who hasn't declared yet) and Ducasse all about equal, so personally I'd rather target one OL and two DE/OLBs in the 2nd round, and go after a blue chip prospect in the 1st round, with a possible trade up.

I really like the possibility of grabbing Iupati. I like him in the first round if we trade down into the 28th pick or lower. It looks like we should be picking at the top of the 20's. With quality at the Guard position, I don't think we have to jump the gun at the guard position. If we miss one, we could get another one of comparable quality.

With our first round pick, we should either get a pass rusher, or a 3-4 end.

 

[State]

I'm surprised Ochmed put Young of Notre Dame so high on his list. He's been around forever and has good size but definitely lacks the athleticism of the elites. I think he's at best a fourth-rounder, and that's probably a round too high.

He's like a slightly more promising prospect than a guy who wasn't even drafted though Rick Gosselin had him in the top 100 players. I'm thinking of the Penn State OT Gerald Cadogan last year.

One was ranked #8, the other #9.

Gerald Cadogan | Penn State, OT : 2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile
Sam Young | Notre Dame, OT : 2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Young's problem is blocking speed rushers in space. He can get burned. I've seen it happen periodically. And not just against USC.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'm surprised Ochmed put Young of Notre Dame so high on his list. He's been around forever and has good size but definitely lacks the athleticism of the elites. I think he's at best a fourth-rounder, and that's probably a round too high.

He's like a slightly more promising prospect than a guy who wasn't even drafted though Rick Gosselin had him in the top 100 players. I'm thinking of the Penn State OT Gerald Cadogan last year.

One was ranked #8, the other #9.

Gerald Cadogan*|*Penn State,*OT*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile
Sam Young*|*Notre Dame,*OT*:*2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Young's problem is blocking speed rushers in space. He can get burned. I've seen it happen periodically. And not just against USC.

I think I did that list a little earlier in the year and this season was not kind to Young or Ulatoski. They both have slipped a good bit from their play of last season.

 

[carolinatony]

I wouldn't mind Mike Johnson, OG, Alabama 6'5 - 305 lbs. and he can play both guard and tackle. He is much better in run blocking which is something I believe we can use more of.
His name has been mentioned on here before. He is a late 2nd rounder I read somewhere.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I wouldn't mind Mike Johnson, OG, Alabama 6'5 - 305 lbs. and he can play both guard and tackle. He is much better in run blocking which is something I believe we can use more of.
His name has been mentioned on here before. He is a late 2nd rounder I read somewhere.

Ingram runs behind this kid all the time. I think the wrinkle that Alabama is preparing for Texas is for Ingram to run behind the other side of the line. The thinking is Texas is going to shade their run defense to the left, because Ingram is such a predominantly left side RB.

Johnson filled in at OT for last year's bowl game when Smith nutted up and did no worse than any other Alabama player that night.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Mayo

Taking aside BPA, i'd have thought we need a DE/OLB as the 1st round priority - given that do you think Iaupti will last to one of our 2nd rounders?

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo

Taking aside BPA, i'd have thought we need a DE/OLB as the 1st round priority - given that do you think Iupati will last to one of our 2nd rounders?

Probably not. It's still kind of early to get a sense for exactly where he'll go, but my guess is somewhere between 20 and 40. He didn't hurt himself any today against Bowling Green.

I'm interested to see if Wisconsin junior OT Gabe Carimi declares, because I think he could be a tremendous OG in the Iupati mold - a 6'7" 325# mauler. I think that Iupati, Carimi and Vladimir Ducasse are fairly close, and there's a good chance at least one of the 3 would be available with our 2nd round picks. Other than that, I have Mike Pouncey of Florida and Mike Johnson of Alabama as late 2nd/early 3rd round guys, and possibly also Maurkice Pouncey, who currently plays center but could play OG.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Probably not. It's still kind of early to get a sense for exactly where he'll go, but my guess is somewhere between 20 and 40. He didn't hurt himself any today against Bowling Green.

Ditto..

I thought that he looked like a beast last night. I wished that he had played against a more "big time" program. What I would have paid to see him go up against Suh (who was dominent in the later game). He is clearly a first round talent and if you think about it, if the Pats pick around 27 or higher, he should be there, and it would solidify the O-line (assuming that we have seen the last of Kazcur) for the rest of Brady's career.

But if you watched the game he manhandled the guy in front of him and was often blowing thorugh him on his way to the linebacker.

 

[mayoclinic]

Tony Pauline's web site, TFYdraft, had this tidbit today about Jared Veldheer:

"Division II standout Jared Veldheer, one of the few small school lineman to receive a combine invitation has been training in Tennessee under the tutelage of thirteen year veteran and former All Pro Brad Hopkins. According to Hopkins the small school tackle is one of the best athletes he’s ever seen. We reported on November 12th that some around the league were calling Veldheer 'this year’s Sebastian Vollmer.' We hear Veldheer is making huge strides in the weight room as Hillsdale never had a strength and conditioning coach or S&C program for the football team."

TFY

The same report also predicts that Iowa OT Brian Bulaga will declare for the draft, possibly as early as today.

 

[BritPat]

I still can't find any footage of Veldheer.

I'm getting an itch about him though that I cannot scratch.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Globe had a nice article today on Stanford OT and former BC High product Chris Marinelli:

Marinelli took metaphor of union workers to Stanford football - The Boston Globe

Along with Jared Veldheer, definitely someone to consider as a 3rd-4th round developmental RT. He and OG Andrew Phillips were amazing this season opening holes for Toby Gerhart.