OT: Dan Marino "truth" thread

[LoveDemPats]

Temperment

I think that one thing that gets lost on evaluating Marino is temperment. Further, temperment is not always used to evaluate Brady. People talke about arm strength, and ability to move in the pocket, (and these are huge) but temperment is a gigantic part of that position.

If you were to compare the two in terms of Temperment, what would we all have to say? Certainly both are extremely competitive. This is a great quality. But I remember watching Marino get mad a bunch of times during games. Aqua will say it is because of the lack of defence other deficiency not attributable to Danny boy himself. But to me, the way he would blow up at people always made me dislike him even more. The anouncers would say that he was being a great leader. And, interestingly enough, BB explained what a good leader is just this week. The bottom line is that the TEAM has to come together and win games - obviously. I think that Dan was confused about how to be a good leader. I always thought that Grogan was a way better leader. He just was not as talented as Dan, and we got thumped a lot by the fishy's because of it. Even now, if you watch Dan, his temper is simering right below the surface. He is hot tempered. Would any of us say that Brady is hot tempered? Who would we rather work with, or for?

To me, this is a big reason why Marino had problems.

 

[LoveDemPats]

One other thing, you can't deny that Marino was a PR*CK to his teammates, while guys love playing with Brady.[/QUOTE]

This is pretty much what I was trying to say above. Ya beat me to it!!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Marino was more similar to Bledose than Brady/Manning. He had a great arm and quick release. But he lacked leadership skills and judgment, and I don't think he read defenses as well as a Brady or Manning.

For maybe 5 years, I was afraid of us having to face Marino, kind of like Bledsoe's career. The rest of the time, I knew he would make mistakes.

Marino was a great QB, one of my favorites. I agree; great arm, quick release. He did lack some leadership skills. I think Brady is even a little better than Marino at avoiding the rush and Marino did a great job at that. Definate HOFer and one of the best of all time.

To argue that Marino didn't have talent around him on offense as was done earlier in this thread is a real joke, especially when compared with Tom Brady who has done more with less than any QB I can think of in NFL history.

I've always leaned more towards the individual skills than the team accomplishments (i.e. Super Bowl rings) in weighing who should be a HoF player. Reasons why a team doesn't succeed in getting one or more Super Bowls are always complex and the arguments about it are invariably simplistic.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Marino was twice the passer Brady will ever be and played with half the talent Brady has had his whole career.

and Marino had a coach with 1/10th the intelligence Brady's coach has.
Here's analogy for you
1. SB rings , but never the record setting passers - Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Plunkett, Montana, Brady, Aikman, Elway
2. No SB rings, worlds greatest statistical QB's - Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino


I'll take the winners. PS Elway never threw for more than 27 TD's in any season, and only 1 season over 4000yds(4040)

So, twice the passer theory only applies since Doofins were pass oriented offense because Shula was too dumb to build a balanced team. When Broncos became a balanced Offense, they won. Cowboys success was result of Emmit, not as much as the WR's

PS: Here's an eye opener for you.....How many seasons of 20+ passing TD's did Aikman have ? Care to guess

Try

1 (23 is highest # TD's for Troy and not 1 season above 3500 yds passing)

So, what does "twice the passer" c-rap have to do with anything. Its all about winning championships !

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Hey Aqua, do me a favor, cut down the sig line a little. It takes up half the screen. I don't care what you have in it. Actually, I kind of like the Pats logo with the camera but put them side by side or something.

thanks

 

[Deus Irae]

What about the fact that Brady has had a top 10 defense throughout his whole career? Seymour, Bruschi, Vrable, Colvin, Samuel, Harrison.

Patriots Defenses in the Brady era:

2001: #6
2002: #17
2003: #1
2004: #2
2005: #17
2006: #2


There's no question that the best Patriots teams have been when the defense has been at its best. The difference is that Brady used that good defense to win Super Bowls and Marino was unable to do so.


Now, running backs:

Tony Nathan averaged 4.8 ypc for his career in Miami. Troy Stradford started well, but never fully recovered from injury. Lorenzo Hampton was a career 3.9 ypc player. Sammy Smith did suck, though, I'll give you that.

For the Patriots, A. Smith averaged 4 ypc in 2001 and only 3.5 ypc in 2003, so I'm not seeing how it was about a helpful running game, either.

I would think the receiver position would go unsaid, given the overwhelming superiority of the Dolphins there.

 

[JartoPat]

Marino was twice the passer Brady will ever be and played with half the talent Brady has had his whole career.

If the number of "pro-bowl talent players" Brady has had continues then statistically it would actually be 8.5 over the same length of a carreer as Marino (33). So Brady wouldn't have twice the talent. It would be in Marino's favor. Marino would have about 3.88 times the talent Brady will.

It's amusing how you call a person out then contradict yourself in your own rebuttal. I mean, where are YOUR statistics for why Marino is better?
You say:

"Tell me, what physical attribute does Brady have the edge on Marino? Marino had a stronger arm, was more accurate, had a quicker release, was more mobile (not using his legs but his internal clock was great), his feet were better, his vision, arm slot, drops, plant foot, hip rotation... Do you want me to keep going?"

How about being a winner?

You probably won't find a high percentage of people who say Dan Marino wasn't a great quarterback. He's got the individual stats second to none. People can claim all they want that Marino never had a good team but the Dolphins were division champs 5 times with Marino and made the playoffs 10 times and only made it to one Super Bowl.

Brady has had 6 full seasons with the Patriots, made the playoffs 5 times and won 3 Super Bowls.

And by the way,

Brady's lifetime comp % is 62.2 vs Marino's 59.4 so your accuracy claim is bunk.

Brady's lifetime rating is 89.3 vs Marino's 86.4

Brady has been sacked 184 times in 98 games vs Marino's 270 in 242 games. Thats a 1.88 for Brady ratio vs 1.11 for Marino. So he's more mobile though that may say something about their defensive lines.

"Leave it to a WOP to bring a knife to a gun fight"

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Patriots Defenses in the Brady era:

2001: #6
2002: #17
2003: #1
2004: #2
2005: #17
2006: #2


There's no question that the best Patriots teams have been when the defense has been at its best. The difference is that Brady used that good defense to win Super Bowls and Marino was unable to do so.


Now, running backs:

Tony Nathan averaged 4.8 ypc for his career in Miami. Troy Stradford started well, but never fully recovered from injury. Lorenzo Hampton was a career 3.9 ypc player. Sammy Smith did suck, though, I'll give you that.

For the Patriots, A. Smith averaged 4 ypc in 2001 and only 3.5 ypc in 2003, so I'm not seeing how it was about a helpful running game, either.

I would think the receiver position would go unsaid, given the overwhelming superiority of the Dolphins there.

In the same breath one could say Marino had Duper and Clayton, both pro bowl WR's, whereas Brady has had never had a pro bowl type WR, as well no continuty at WR position.

PS:
Brady won SB36 with A. Smith and JR Redmond as his RB's

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

whay are we talking about Marino, he never won a superbowl and thinks he is better than he really is.

Spray Tan Dan...

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

In the same breath one could say Marino had Duper and Clayton, both pro bowl WR's, whereas Brady has had never had a pro bowl type WR, as well no continuty at WR position.

PS:
Brady won SB36 with A. Smith and JR Redmond as his RB's

Redmond did have that sweet play during the last drive where he made an unbelievable effort to get out of bounds. Jeezuz I love that play.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

The Ringless Wonder couldn't hold Tom's man purse. Puhleaze. Tired of whiny, sour grapes Danny Boy's mouth. The guy was the biggest big game egg layer of all time.

Pretty sure I just disproved this in another post. 10 losses in the playoffs, defense allowed an average of 34.5 points. How can any QB, even manpurse Brady, to consistently put up 35 points on some of the league's best defenses in the playoffs?

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the defense threw all those pics in his last game against the Jags, cry me a river.

I notice you still haven't addressed the disparity in offensive pro bowl players around him.

Good luck against the Jets on Sunday, maybe you guys can finally get a win.

 

[Brick]

Ringless Dan... the most talented Loser in the history of the NFL.:singing:

 

[Snake]

Ringless Dan... the most talented Loser in the history of the NFL.:singing:

He's right up there with Tarkenton, OJ, and Jim Kelly.

 

[Porco Rosso]

You guys couldn't be more wrong.

Dan Marino was 8-10 in his career in the playoffs. In those 10 losses Marino threw for 14 TDs and ran for 1 while the defense allowed an average of 34.5 points per game in those 10 losses.

And he threw 19 INTs.

14 TDs
19 INTs


It's funny that you didn't mention this.

 

[pats-blue]

Pretty sure I just disproved this in another post. 10 losses in the playoffs, defense allowed an average of 34.5 points. How can any QB, even manpurse Brady, to consistently put up 35 points on some of the league's best defenses in the playoffs?

You seem to avoid any questions where you are pounded but I will try.....

How many of those points are a result of dan the man's 19 INTS?

Short field given to the other O, less posessions, tired D from being on the field so much since he was so crappy in the playoffs the Miami D was always on the field.

Don't blame the D, look at your heros failings.

Remember your the one that said the reg season had nothing to do with the playoffs, but Dan gets a pass? Look up the stats from the games and I think you will find that your world is a fantasy.

 

[sieglo]

And he threw 19 INTs.

14 TDs
19 INTs


It's funny that you didn't mention this.

Clearly the defense was so demoralized by all those INTs and so tuired from being on the field the entire game as the offesne repeatedly turned it over that they allowed 34.5 points on average scored against.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[pats1yes]

Can we all stop being fools.

Marino was one of the best that played the game. No question. Period.

Oh, I am a Pats Fan. 30+ years season ticket holder.

But to knock Marino is the same as other teams knocking Brady.

Dumb, be quiet, stop it already.

Marino was one of the best to play the game. And if you saw him play like I did you would feel the same.

Can we not be the same fools as the rest of what I read.

Stop it, be quiet.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the defense threw all those pics in his last game against the Jags, cry me a river.

I notice you still haven't addressed the disparity in offensive pro bowl players around him.

Good luck against the Jets on Sunday, maybe you guys can finally get a win.

Again, bringing up another irrelevant topic, the MO here at Patsfans.

As for the Marino debate, yeah he had some good lines and good receivers. Don't tell me he had legitimate running backs. Despite the shortcommings from the backfield, that offense was good, I know that. What about the defense? It was awful, no denying that.

The plain fact is that Marino made .500 teams perinial contenders each year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Notice how WaterBoy and the other PhinHeads IGNORE the stats presented against them, i.e. that Antowain was Brady's RB, the 19 INTs so conveniently forgotten and then ignored by WaterBoy. By failing to address salient points and responding to trivia, the losers fool no one.