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OT: Consensus reached on 4 team college playoff.

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by KontradictioN, Jun 21, 2012.

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  1. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ESPN NCAAF Consensus reached on playoff

    Ehh. I like the idea of a playoff, personally. But I don't like the idea of it being just four teams. In that instance, I would MUCH rather have the bowl season. Personally, I would rather them expand it to 12 or 16 teams.
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And yet another level of games I get to ignore as a once quality product continues to get made worse and worse.
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    I have heard complaints about only4 and i don't agree 5th place can't complain about anything IMO. I didn't watch college ball before but this will make me watch at least the playoff games.
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Given the reality of the sport with its 11-game season and one-game-per-week schedule, a 16-team playoff would be way out of proportion, IMO. 4 teams, 2 weeks is about the most that's supportable.
  5. thenepatsrule

    thenepatsrule Rookie

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    There is talk of conference champs getting into the final 4, on that basis if memory serves me right Alabama wouldn't have made it last year if the rules were in place...........
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So they're looking to make it even worse than they've just made it?



    What the hell is wrong with those people?
  7. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Not nearly enough, this is almost as bad as the way it is now. It should at least be like NFL with 12 teams getting in, top 4 get byes. Maybe more teams since there's so many overall
  8. Triumph

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    There needs to be more teams.

    People want to see an undefeated Boise State knock off a team like Alabama. Thats what makes NCAA Basketball playoff system so popular. Also, the time from the end of the season to the championship game is 6 weeks with some really meaningless football being played.
  9. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I've heard, the talk is based on record and strength of schedule. So that means that 3 out of 4, or possibly all 4 playoff teams will be SEC teams. :ugh:
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :rofl:

    Ahh.... the irony of people getting what they want and then complaining about it, when they had a better system before.

    If you want "The Best!", you have to let "The Best" play each other to work it out.

    What was once a great tradition, with a few bowls featuring regional rivalries and allowing for post 'season' discussions about who was best to keep things lively in the offseason, will now become a weak sauce version of the NFL, except with the "ills" of baseball where there are dozens of have-nots and about 5-10 haves (at most) who fight it out year after year.

    Great job, NCAA. You've gone from must-see-tv to "Why bother watching anything but the 3 game playoffs, if that?". :bricks:
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't mind the bowl system either. I just would have liked to see a playoff system in which (and this had been mentioned) we get to see if a team like Boise State really does have what it takes to go all the way against the SEC and the ACC. In essence, I wanted a playoff, but more of an NFL style playoff with 12-16 of the top teams based on national rank in it. This crap idea that they came out with instead should go directly into the toilet.
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hey, Kontra, my bad. I should have made it clear that I was laughing at the many people who'll be saying what you're saying, and doing it because this is "better" since they want just one clear #1 (as if the 2007 Giants are clearly the best team from that season, or something), and not specifically at you. The original system was excellent. They follow up, with the delayed bowls, kind of sucked, but the idea was at least sound. The BCS was another step down, and now they've dug beneath the basement for this latest incarnation.

    I now await the expansion to 8 teams, so that all 5-10 teams that can realistically claim a shot every year will be able to bring in even more of the higher level talent and completely screw over the lesser schools in a way we haven't seen in decades.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can have a 16 team race just as easily as you have a 12 team race if you space it out correctly. Though, a 12 team race is ideal...

    Teams 1-4 get Byes with 1 and 2 having HFA throughout. The other 8 teams play during a wild card weekend of Friday night and Saturday. The remaining four teams play teams 1-4 Friday night and Saturday of next weekend. The winners of those games move on to a Semi-Final round to be played the following Saturday. And the two teams left standing play for the National Championship two Saturdays later.
  14. stinebot

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    Alabama should not have played in the national championship last year. What's the point of having a regular season and a conference playoff if the results of that will be disregarded? Alabama did not even win the SEC West, let alone the SEC. So how did they deserve a shot at the national championship? They were not even the best team in the SEC West. Games count. Yeah, a team may have highly skilled players, but if they cannot put that skill to use when it matters they should not get rewarded with a trip to the title game anyway. Just imagine the outcry from everyone but some Pats fans (and rightly so) if the Broncos had beat the Pats in the playoffs, but then later sportswriters decide that the Pats are the best team in the AFC anyway and award them a trip to the Superbowl. To get to the title game you need to win your way in. Not lose and back in because sportswriters vote you in to make their own preseason predictions look good.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  15. WhiZa

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    You have to start somewhere. Even the NFL started out back in 1933 with a single championship game and worked it's way up to a 4 team playoff for Superbowl I in 1967. It will take time, but we will have a larger playoff bracket in our lifetime.
  16. Triumph

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    LSU and Bama should have played a 3rd game to decide who was best since both lost to each other.
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because you want the best teams fighting for the title. Isn't that what this is supposed to be about? After all, the NFL has wild cards, so teams that don't even win their division make the playoffs. See, this is another reason why the playoff sucks. All that's happened is the "But, what about me?" has been kicked further down the ladder, and people are now coming up with excuses to eliminate teams that are supposedly the exact sort of reason for the playoff in the first place.



    BTW, Felger and Mazz are both on board with the new system, so I'm more sure than ever that it's a bad idea.
  18. stinebot

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    Except LSU beat Alabama in the regular season just like they beat everyone else they played. Alabama only got a second chance because they got put into a championship game they didn't earn their way into.

    I'd be fine with Alabama winning the national championship if they had earned it. If there was a playoff and they won out fine. But they ended up as 3rd place in the SEC so I don't see any logical way to catapult them in front of Oklahoma State, Stanford, Oregon, etc to a shot at the title regardless of what sportswriters and other coaches think. If a real playoff is implemented then whoever wins wins. But picking 4 teams, either you just do 1-4 and 2-3 matchups to determine who plays for the title and disregard conference championships totally (as in not even play the games) or you take the 4 conference champs with best records and forget the rankings. You can't have it both ways.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many posters want to change the rules for determining the National Championship after the fact. All teams played according to the rules.

    We now will have new rules.

    I would prefer 3 weeks and 8 teams, but 4 teams is a first step. a 2-game playoff for an 11-12 game season seems appropriate.


    BTW, we do not "lose" bowl games. 2 of the bowl games will have the 4 teams competing for the championship, and there will a championship as there was last year.
  20. stinebot

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    Speaking solely for myself, it's not an after the fact thing. I thought it should have been LSU-Oklahoma State even before the participants were announced. If two teams are as closely ranked as Bama and OK St were, rather than going to a hundredth or thousandth of a decimal place to determine it should be logical to select the conference champ over a team that didn't eve make their conference championship.

    But yes, a playoff is certainly better than no playoff. I just wonder what happens in a year or three when 3 SEC teams make the playoffs and an undefeated team from another conference does not, just because people back in August decided "Well, we decided the ACC just isn't very strong this year, so no matter how the season plays out no ACC team is making the 4 team playoff." It's a bit easier to excuse when it's only 2 teams, but with 4 it'll be a big controversy all over again. The only way to dispel that is to go to something like a 10 or 12 team playoff. Yeah, half the season will be playoffs but the NCAA has far more football teams than the NFL does so to have a valid championship you need to give teams a chance to prove they belong.

    A few years back when Boise State was going undefeated and never getting a shot at the title it was because "They haven't played anyone". Then they beat Virginia Tech. They beat Oregon. They beat Oklahoma in a bowl game. They beat Ga Tech. But most SEC or Big 12 teams wouldn't schedule them because if they lost it would validate Boise State's place in the polls instead of safely being able to ignore an undefeated top 10 team.
  21. chicowalker

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    the logical reason is that all the teams you mentioned lost games, too

    A 4-team playoff remains highly flawed, but as another poster said, it now opens the door to a good playoff system. (like kontra, I'd say 1 12-team playoff would be ideal. Yes, there will be arguments about who should be the final spot or 2 (just like there are questionable calls at the bubble in the basketball tourney), but no team ranked 13th or 14th will have an argument that they're actually the best team in the nation.
  22. stinebot

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    Yes they lost games, but just speaking about Ok St. now, they won their conference. You didn't address my point that if you have two teams with the same record but one won their conference and one finished third, consensus is the team that won it's conference is the better team.

    That is certainly open to debate, but I'd give the nod to a 1 loss team that lost it's game in double overtime on the road over a 1 loss team that lost it's game at home and couldn't even score 7 points in their losing effort, even though a computer formula most people don't comprehend said Bama was a tiny fragment of a percentage point better.
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In 2007, the Giants didn't win their division. They beat a clearly superior opponent and won the Super Bowl, and it was a rematch after they'd lost to that same team a few weeks earlier.

    They are considered the league champions.


    So.... do we need to get rid of this possibility in the NFL now? Should we eliminate the wild cards?
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  24. stinebot

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    Not at all. A few responses back I said that if there was a true college playoff then whoever wins the championship deserves to be called champions. Just like the NFL. My point is that with no playoff as was the case last year you are left with picking the two teams that "deserve" to play for the championship. How can a team that finishes third in it's conference be one of the two best teams in the entire country, when they are only third best in their conference?
  25. Deus Irae

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    The NFL doesn't have a "true playoff", either. None of the 4 major professional sports leagues in the U.S. does. In order to have a "true playoff", you'd need to have every team in the league playing in it.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  26. stinebot

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    That's just silly. The NFL, NBA, and NHL have all had teams with losing records make the playoffs. If a team with a losing record can make the playoffs it's reasonably safe to assume the best team overall team made it. Once you are in it's up to you. Play hard and you can be champions. but in college football it has always been more like "Be a good team in the SEC and you'll be fine and you can claim nobody else deserves to play for the title because you don't face as good of competition, excuse me I have to go pound on Southwestern North Dakota Community College now."
  27. chicowalker

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    I didn't see that point in your post. A conference winner isn't necessarily better than a non conference winner. However, there's certainly an argument to give the conference winner the benefit of the doubt.

    (But the rest of your argument is at best one-sided, at worst irrelevant. "couldn't even score 7 points"? Who cares? They also held their opponent to under 10 in that game. I could just as easily say that Ok St "couldn't even hold their opponent under 35 points in their losing effort." And while LSU lost at home, it was a loss to the consensus best team in the nation (until the last game, of course). Oklahoma State, otoh, lost to a mediocre opponent. and Alabama's loss was in OT, something you conveniently left out while pointing out that Ok St's was in double OT.

    There was an argument for Ok State, but if you're going to make that argument -- as irrelevant as that is today -- at least don't be disingenuous and cherrypick.)
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  28. chicowalker

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    Alabama weren't exactly "3rd best" in their conference... You're comparing apples and oranges because of the respective structures of the SEC versus the Big 12.

    You would have been hard-pressed to find any college football fan (outside of Athens, perhaps) who thought Georgia or any other SEC East team was better than Alabama.

    Do you actually believe that Alabama was any worse than the 2nd best team in the SEC last year?
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  29. Deus Irae

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    It's not silly at all. It's a specific response to a claim. A "true playoff" doesn't first eliminate teams before the playoffs even start. What you're trying to do is massage this so that if fits nicely into a preconceived notion of perfect.

    That's just not going to happen. If you have 4 teams, the 5th team will often have gotten screwed. If you have 8 teams, the 9th team will often have gotten screwed. March Madness should have made this pretty clear to even the most ardent champions of this nonsense.

    And that "losing team" argument is ridiculous, as 2010 should have demonstrated, conclusively, to you, when a sub .500 team knocked off an 11-5 team. Hell, 2010 had some of the "We need to change this!" brigade out, calling for reforms of the NFL playoff system.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  30. Frezo

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    It makes absolutely no difference what system is put in place. There will ALWAYS be a group of people that don't like it. For every stinebot that likes it there will be a stinebot that hates it and other stinebots that don't care until their team doesn't make the playoffs then they'll become the vocal party year after year after year. There can be no system that will be viewed as fair by everyone.
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