Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by PatsFan24, Feb 14, 2012.
This is a surprise!
My crystal ball isn't working. You want to help us out with what the title of this thread is based on, whose opinion, who said what, etcetera?
I hope so..I wanna see another Peyton vs Brady classic in the postseason before they retire...although that looks like a longshot nowadays with Peyton's injury and stuff
Try a website called nfl.com
Well not really.
Only with a restructured deal.
Colts owner Jim Irsay says team 'would love to have' QB Peyton Manning back | The Indianapolis Star | indystar.com
So they'd pay him less...and he'd be there for how long? A year? Is Andrew Luck going to sit longer than that?
This is such a stupid situation. They have to get rid of him and they know it, or trade the pick.
Is there a need for Irsay to disguise his intentions? For instance, if he wants to go with Luck why not say it?
Hahaha. Way to post a thread without any source cited and then cop an attitude when someone asks for it.
I feel like Irsay is in Cover My A** mode trying to come out on top of a soon to be PR nightmare.
Trying to throw Manning under the bus with "We wanted him back, but he was unwilling to restructure his contract." in what is sure to be nasty debacle in Indy when it's all said and done.
Either Manning's kept, cut, or traded. There won't be any happy or financially satisfying ending here for either party regardless of what happens.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out heading into the 2012 NFL Draft.
No attitude here. He wanted to know some information so I told him where to go.
Yes, Irsay's getting ready to dump Manning and he wants to make it look like it's Manning's fault.
This is going to be an interesting game of cat and mouse. I am sure Manning doesn't want to play for a crappy colts team but doesn't want to leave because of the pr nightmare. Irsay doesn't want to pay the bonus money and also wants to avoid the pr nightmare (If he lets Peyton become a free agent). So who takes the blame?
Unless the Colts flush their entire line as well, why would he want to leave? The teams with that level of protection are few and far between, and there is no way he wants to take a beating behind a bad O-line. That assumes he will ever return physically to close to his earlier form.
I expect he continues with the Colts after pushing this bonus payment if he is healthy. He does not want out as his status only improves by making the Colts credible next season after this one. 10-6 makes him a miracle worker, and Luck plays apprentice for a year or two. Who cares what Luck wants if he is drafted unless he is a better QB than Manning next year.
âWe can make it work if he wants to be here,ââ Irsay said today. âWeâd be excited to have him back and finish his career with us.âI want him to be able to make the choice. We would love to have him back here if he can get healthy and we can look at doing a contract that reflects the uncertainty of the . . . healing process with the regeneration of the nerve.â
Then he added: "and when a herd of cows fly over The Lube".*
*He really didn't say that, but that is what he means.
The Colts' offensive line sucks.
Is there a source for this or did it come to you as a vision?
Or you could have invested the ten seconds it would take to insert:
NFL.com news: Irsay: Manning welcome back to Colts but on restructured deal
Just sayin'. :singing:
Still, the topic is interesting thanks for, well, kind of telling us about it.
Or, he could have said "...and we can look at doing a contract that reflects our complete lack of interest in really doing this."
Peyton would be stupid to take less money to play on a bad team that he has to completely carry (again) while constantly competing with Andrew Luck.
God forbid he loses a game and the media starts to scream, "is it time to bench Peyton Manning?"
Miami or Arizona are an elite QB away from being serious contenders and will probably offer way more than the Colts.
Irsay is trying to leverage the rumor that Manning will do a team friendly deal for an interested team that is a franchise QB away from contending and doesn't intend to draft one with the #1 pick in the 2012 draft into Manning shooting his way out of town. And you'd be surprised what will fly in Indy these days since it's a given drafting Luck guarantees them another 13 years of division dominance and conference contention...
Irsay is his own worst enemy in all of this. The twitter monster. He publicly pontificated that he wanted to make and keep Manning the highest paid player in the league. Had he gotten his way Manning would have just signed a new deal last March before the lockout and before the surgery or when Brady did in 2010 and now Indy would be on the hook for $30M+ instead of $10M in dead cap. Manning gave them an option and they took it. That option included a no trade provision if they decided to move on.
A 2-14 season and the #1 pick drove Irsay's decision to move on from everyone associated with the last 13 year run and reinsert himself as the one true face of the franchise and defender of the horseshoe... But he doesn't want to be his reviled old man either, the guy who pushed Johnny Unitas out the door. And at 39 Unitas was toast, so Irsay fears this could be worse. If Manning goes somewhere else and wins consistently over the next 3-4 seasons while Indy struggles to rebuild around a college QB with little more than projections of greatness...let alone if he lands in their division and finally makes a team like Texas genuine contenders (and the oft injured Schaub's deal is up after this year)... Well, he knows who fans will turn their wrath on, Bob Irsay's son. If you want to play the good cop you probably shouldn't have fired the bad cop first.
Colt fans seem to be genuinely divided. In part because Irsay spent the last couple of months convincing them first that he had no intention of ever moving away from Manning if he was healthy and going so far as to reassure them they could have their cake and eat it too. His accountant must have called and explained the finances - and perhaps human nature - to him. He began counting on Manning being done, and Manning isn't there yet and frankly you can't blame him for resenting the implication.
This is about Luck and the #1 pick. If Irsay wants Manning to stay all he has to do is stipulate he will not use the #1 pick on a QB but rather on improving the team that would surround his 2012 QB. If not, he needs to just hold up his end of the bargain and let Manning go to a team who will gladly stipulate that. It's not about the money, it's about the draft pick and direction of the team over the next 3 seasons. Manning would be an idiot to give this clown another break after the way he's backpedaled over the last month or two. It's all about trust and Manning no longer trusts anyone in control in Indy.
If Jim Irsay believes that moving on is in the franchise's best interest, he has to own that. Like Kraft did with BB and BB did with Brady. Irsay's not dealing with some hayseed from Kiln, Mississippi who only wanted to show up and play sandlot football on Sunday's. Manning is an anal football machine, and a veritable industry, and represented by the top agent shark in the business, and he has a multitude of options post career and he has all the leverage. Can't win this fight and all he will do in the process of trying to is further piss Manning off and pile the pressure on a new staff and a rookie QB to win now on a team that is absent a draft windfall woefully devoid of talent.
Makes for some great off season NFL viewing though...:rocker:
I'd want Manning to restructure too if I were trying to trade him.
Arizona is more than a QB away ... Fitz is carrying that team,their defense is average.
It's all pretty simple. Manning wants his $28M and is trying to pressure Irsay to give it to him. Irsay definitely won't be paying this bonus and is trying to use damage control by insinuating things like Peyton's injured and welcome back if he rips up the contract they agreed to last year. The cat and mouse game will thus continue.
Manning will definitely end up getting cut.
The only drama element missing in that great analysis (yours are among the few lengthy posts that I actually read out here) is how much Irsay blames Polian for the contract that is now tying his hands (there was a great thread on the topic out here a few weeks ago, wish I could put my hands on it).
Polian was clearly the guy with whom Manning felt he had a rapport and Peyton was quite public in expressing his "shock" and "dismay" when Irsay booted Polian pere et fils out the door. Polian was also the guy who gave Manning the contract that gave him, as you observe, all the "leverage."
The output, though, is that Irsay is left with a classic decision where the switch can only be "On" or "Off."
So far, he's botched the handling thereof. Like you, I'm staying tuned to see how it all evolves. I'm a little amazed that Irsay is screwing the pooch so badly on this. It's the kind of situation that CEO's have to manage and only bad CEO's let it unravel the way this situation has.
Not much debate about what is happening here and i agreee with most of what has been said. This is a really obvious ploy by Irsay to try and make Manning into the villain if he leaves and I think it is going to backfire badly on him. First of all it is going to piss Manning off seriously and coming before their meeting is going to turn it nasty imo. If Manning is smart he now forces Irsay's hand and stands firm for the current agreement and the Colts have to release him. Regardless of Irsay's attempts to say it was Manning's fault for not agreeing to a massive pay cut most Colt fans will see it for the sham it is and b lame Irsay.
Irsay would have been better off simply releasing Manning and telling the fans he couldn't rebuild the team and afford Manning's contract, they would have understood that more than playing games to make him look better.
Once again this just makes it even more obvious how lucky we are to have the ownership the Patriots have with the Kraft's. Must suck being a Colts fan.
Irsay may want to make Polian the fall guy for that contract, but you can bet your life that it was one contract negotiation where Irsay himself was front and center.
He needs to blame the medical people for incomplete / false / too rosy health information, but himself for pulling the trigger.
Firing Polian in making more and more sense, because Polian can be scapegoated for the Peyton contract, for the cap situation (deservedly so), and for the team's record last year, when after starting 0-6 or so, I am convinced that Irsay himself directed "we are not claiming any guys, no matter how useful, on waivers; and we are not firing Jim Caldwell..." (while muttering under his breath "...until he loses as many games as he can through his own sheer ineptitude")
?? Why would you say that? They constructed a tremendous organization over the last 10+ years, winning a ton of division titles, two AFC championships, and one Super Bowl. And, just when their star HOF QB looks to be on the way out, they are able to land the next great QB talent in Andrew Luck.
If you could go back into a time machine 11 years ago and be told that would be the fate of the New England Patriots over that stretch of time, you and I and everyone in this group would have happily taken that.
Actually I don't think he was. I don't think he ever was. Sure he had to sign off on the terms as all owners do when that level of compensation is on the table. But Polian was pretty clear that negotiations have always tended to be between he and agents, contrary to Jim's public blathering about willingness to overpay (followed by his backtracking blather about how you can't field a team with more than $20M dedicated to the QB).
Thing about Irsay is he's not a total idiot. Odd yes, an imbecile, no. He's not a Wharton grad. But he didn't just inherit a team out of the blue. He worked for the Colts for most of his life, from the bottom up. Watched his father alienate everyone and spent his youth apologizing for it. Was determined not to be that guy when he got his shot. And he did pretty well in that regard. Hiring Polian when he did was the smartest move he could have made. Got him a consistent winner, and that got him a new stadium at a time when taxpayers weren't inclined to. The Lombardi was almost overkill. Where he went wrong was in allowing Polian to treat the FO like it was his own little kingdom, complete with automatic inheritance options for his sons.
Now he's trying to create revisionist history spin. Claims he chose Manning, not Polian. He chose Dungy, not Polian. But Polian made the mistakes that led to their downfall, he didn't. He better be careful because Polian took a job on Sirius and he's got some rabbit ears just like Manning and he's not going to be Jim's fall guy when he's no longer being compensated to. He owes Condon a lot because the tradeoff for facilitating Manning's capacity to lead the market was Condon teaching Polian every structural cap manipulation trick in the book to allow a low revenue team to compete.
Irsay cares too much about PR and fan opinion. He's letting that drive the process. I assume that is because while he knew more about the day to day workings of a football team than Kraft did when he bought in, he's never run a successful (real world) business other than the Colts of the last 13 or so seasons... Sure he has investments these days and some limited independent wealth as a result, courtesy of those same Colts of the last 13 years, the Indianapolis Mannings you might call them. But he doesn't have the background of an ownership stake in any other corporation - which is also why he has too much time on his hands to get sucked into ill conceived pandering and mindless blathering on social media.
He needs to either STFU or cultivate some media toadies to do his message sending for him anonomously while maintaining plausible deniability. Otherwise eventually he's going to find it hard to counter potential backlash. Every potential #1 draft pick and UFA on the market including his own is watching this little drama unfold and none of them wants to tie their career prospects to a guy who will ultimately resort to scapegoating everyone else when the going gets tough.
What Indy was it will no longer be. Polian is gone. The coach is gone. Tom Moore is gone and next year Peyton Manning will either be playing somewhere else or doing something completely different. My money is on his doing something completely different. As for the Dolts, they rebuild and it should be a while before they contend again. So it goes....
Yes, I thought so as well. They may have been good in the past but they were exposed this year. I think Manning has been making that whole team look good for years. He covered up the glaring problems. Now of course the stupid owner is playing games with a a guy who will, like Brady, go into the HOF on roller skates. Ah the NFL...... Its almost like the Cosa Nostra.
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