OT: Breaking news from this board: Pats might trade Bledsoe

[Actual Pats Fan]

Jesus, who's next? I hope it's not Milloy.

"Hey! Mr. Kraft! ... Oh, I'm sorry, should I call you Bob? ..."

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I don't think anyone - anywhere - had any idea what was coming with TB12. Maybe Tom himself, but everyone else saw a good game manager with a fairly low ceiling. Surely this is one of the strangest things I have ever seen in sports. From 2000-2007, Brady's improvements every year were monumental. Everything about him changed, including his questionable arm strength and accuracy.

New Years' Day, 2000. Orange Bowl, Miami. Y2K. **** Rehbein. Destiny.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The 70s, 80s and early 90s, we were mediocare at best with one crazy run in '86. We were basically what the Bills have been the last 10 years. Parcells and Bledsoe gave us hope that we could be a perennial contender. We went to a SB with him in '96,. Most here think fondly of Drew because he helped turn this franchise around. BB and Brady made us the greatest franchise of all time. I have no ill-will towards Bledsoe and he was a professional.

He kind of reminds me of a Matt Ryan, a player that can win you a game help you make the playoffs if you have solid defense, a very good QB, but not in that elite sphere....

It's important not to pretend things that aren't true, and then lead to false conclusions - and wrong decisions and actions. That's what it's all about.

The Bills haven't smelled the playoffs in this century. The Patriots had the best team in the league in '76, and barely missed the playoffs in '77, '80, '87, '88 (failed to start Flutie in Denver). Shaughnessy will have you believe that playing in the Stupor Bowl in '81 is the most unconscionable act in history, even though every team has been there at the bottom at one time or another. Did the Cowboys destroy their logo and uniforms after going 1-15 JJ's first season there? And the run in '85 was not a fluke, so Dan said the team was neck-deep in a drug scandal, despite the fact that Taylor and Manley alone took more drugs than the whole Pats team, including Tony Collins. The team went through a poor 36-month stretch on and off the field, before 1993.

As I've said a zillion times, Drew is clearly a very nice man, who did his best here. There's nothing wrong with liking him. It is simply wrong, and destructive because it encourages ignorance, to denigrate his predecessors here, by pretending he was better than he was, or that the franchise was deserving of the "broken and ridiculed" tag that Orthwein (and the NFL) slapped on it, and continues to propagate about the team today.

 

[Froob]

Vintage Ian at work.

 

[SalemPats]

It's important not to pretend things that aren't true, and then lead to false conclusions - and wrong decisions and actions. That's what it's all about.

The Bills haven't smelled the playoffs in this century. The Patriots had the best team in the league in '76, and barely missed the playoffs in '77, '80, '87, '88 (failed to start Flutie in Denver). Shaughnessy will have you believe that playing in the Stupor Bowl in '81 is the most unconscionable act in history, even though every team has been there at the bottom at one time or another. Did the Cowboys destroy their logo and uniforms after going 1-15 JJ's first season there? And the run in '85 was not a fluke, so Dan said the team was neck-deep in a drug scandal, despite the fact that Taylor and Manley alone took more drugs than the whole Pats team, including Tony Collins. The team went through a poor 36-month stretch on and off the field, before 1993.

As I've said a zillion times, Drew is clearly a very nice man, who did his best here. There's nothing wrong with liking him. It is simply wrong, and destructive because it encourages ignorance, to denigrate his predecessors here, by pretending he was better than he was, or that the franchise was deserving of the "broken and ridiculed" tag that Orthwein (and the NFL) slapped on it, and continues to propagate about the team today.

We made the playoffs 5 times from 1970 - 1993 (23 years) and '86 was the only year we won a playoff game. I don't understand your rant

 

[Kontradiction]

It's important not to pretend things that aren't true, and then lead to false conclusions - and wrong decisions and actions. That's what it's all about.

The Bills haven't smelled the playoffs in this century. The Patriots had the best team in the league in '76, and barely missed the playoffs in '77, '80, '87, '88 (failed to start Flutie in Denver). Shaughnessy will have you believe that playing in the Stupor Bowl in '81 is the most unconscionable act in history, even though every team has been there at the bottom at one time or another. Did the Cowboys destroy their logo and uniforms after going 1-15 JJ's first season there? And the run in '85 was not a fluke, so Dan said the team was neck-deep in a drug scandal, despite the fact that Taylor and Manley alone took more drugs than the whole Pats team, including Tony Collins. The team went through a poor 36-month stretch on and off the field, before 1993.

As I've said a zillion times, Drew is clearly a very nice man, who did his best here. There's nothing wrong with liking him. It is simply wrong, and destructive because it encourages ignorance, to denigrate his predecessors here, by pretending he was better than he was, or that the franchise was deserving of the "broken and ridiculed" tag that Orthwein (and the NFL) slapped on it, and continues to propagate about the team today.

Flying Elvis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pat Patriot

 

[Froob]

Flying Elvis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pat Patriot

Both are awesome. We need a few games with Pat Patriot. Paint the helmets ya cheap ass Krafty Bob.

 

[Galeb]

It's important not to pretend things that aren't true, and then lead to false conclusions - and wrong decisions and actions. That's what it's all about.

The Bills haven't smelled the playoffs in this century. The Patriots had the best team in the league in '76, and barely missed the playoffs in '77, '80, '87, '88 (failed to start Flutie in Denver). Shaughnessy will have you believe that playing in the Stupor Bowl in '81 is the most unconscionable act in history, even though every team has been there at the bottom at one time or another. Did the Cowboys destroy their logo and uniforms after going 1-15 JJ's first season there? And the run in '85 was not a fluke, so Dan said the team was neck-deep in a drug scandal, despite the fact that Taylor and Manley alone took more drugs than the whole Pats team, including Tony Collins. The team went through a poor 36-month stretch on and off the field, before 1993.

As I've said a zillion times, Drew is clearly a very nice man, who did his best here. There's nothing wrong with liking him. It is simply wrong, and destructive because it encourages ignorance, to denigrate his predecessors here, by pretending he was better than he was, or that the franchise was deserving of the "broken and ridiculed" tag that Orthwein (and the NFL) slapped on it, and continues to propagate about the team today.

The Patriots playoff record is 29-19 which is pretty awesome. Their record with Robert Kraft is 25-13. That means that their playoff record from 1960-1993 was 4-6, with 3 of those wins happening in 85. I don't knock anyone that was a fan pre Kraft days (I've been a fan since the late 80s), but lets not pretend that a team with 4 playoff wins in 33 years wasn't crappy most of the time.

 

[aluminum seats]

It's important not to pretend things that aren't true, and then lead to false conclusions - and wrong decisions and actions. That's what it's all about.

The Bills haven't smelled the playoffs in this century. The Patriots had the best team in the league in '76, and barely missed the playoffs in '77, '80, '87, '88 (failed to start Flutie in Denver). Shaughnessy will have you believe that playing in the Stupor Bowl in '81 is the most unconscionable act in history, even though every team has been there at the bottom at one time or another. Did the Cowboys destroy their logo and uniforms after going 1-15 JJ's first season there? And the run in '85 was not a fluke, so Dan said the team was neck-deep in a drug scandal, despite the fact that Taylor and Manley alone took more drugs than the whole Pats team, including Tony Collins. The team went through a poor 36-month stretch on and off the field, before 1993.

As I've said a zillion times, Drew is clearly a very nice man, who did his best here. There's nothing wrong with liking him. It is simply wrong, and destructive because it encourages ignorance, to denigrate his predecessors here, by pretending he was better than he was, or that the franchise was deserving of the "broken and ridiculed" tag that Orthwein (and the NFL) slapped on it, and continues to propagate about the team today.

Man, I've loved the Pats for a long time, but come on. One of the amazing things about this run with Brady and Belichick is that it's the freaking PATRIOTS that it's happening to. I still can't quite believe when people talk about the big bad evil Pats who dominate the league, because they were such a joke--a lovable one at times, a charming joke, OUR joke--but a joke for a long time.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

We made the playoffs 5 times from 1970 - 1993 (23 years) and '86 was the only year we won a playoff game. I don't understand your rant

It's okay except that the Pats were competitive and relevant in the 70's and 80's, light years better than the Bills of the 21st century. There were many big victories there along the way.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Man, I've loved the Pats for a long time, but come on. One of the amazing things about this run with Brady and Belichick is that it's the freaking PATRIOTS that it's happening to. I still can't quite believe when people talk about the big bad evil Pats who dominate the league, because they were such a joke--a lovable one at times, a charming joke, OUR joke--but a joke for a long time.

Which is why Patriots fans should be able to see us win looking like us on the field, and not the NFL-manufactured arena league castoff uglies forced upon us.

The Atlanta Braves got it right. The former Milwaukee- and Boston- franchise wore some silly costumes in the 70's and 80's, however in 1990 they came to their senses and restored their traditional, classy uniforms, then won a bunch of pennants and a World Series, with local boy Tom Glavine. They played - and looked - like champions.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Man, I've loved the Pats for a long time, but come on. One of the amazing things about this run with Brady and Belichick is that it's the freaking PATRIOTS that it's happening to. I still can't quite believe when people talk about the big bad evil Pats who dominate the league, because they were such a joke--a lovable one at times, a charming joke, OUR joke--but a joke for a long time.

And they provided endless material for local sportswriters, including the late, great Bud Collins, who made lots of fun with his satirical humor. But it was satire, Bud never messed with the facts.

Shaughnessy, on the other hand, makes stuff up and states it as fact for the casual masses to believe. That's where making fun ends and inappropriate abuse begins. Damn right the Pats were lovable, I sure loved them, more than those other NFL franchises that were largely more successful. In '74 and '75, I knew that if we were healthy, the Patriots could beat anyone. I was proven right in '76. The crybaby Raiders, moaning for years about how they were robbed in Pittsburgh (they weren't), were not going to beat us, no matter how badly Mike Haynes injured himself, or how many ill-advised halfback option passes coach Fairbanks had Andy Johnson make, or if Sam Cunningham ran out of bounds on every run. It could only take the officials, and as always, the Patriots winning the Super Bowl has been prohibited in the NFL bylaws, so Dreith and his team went to work. Some semblance of redemption could finally occur, when the Patriots win the Super Bowl dressed as themselves, and THAT'S what long time Pats fans deserve to see. But no, I never liked those silly bright red Santa Claus pajama bottom pants they wore off and on from '79-'87.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The Patriots playoff record is 29-19 which is pretty awesome. Their record with Robert Kraft is 25-13. That means that their playoff record from 1960-1993 was 4-6, with 3 of those wins happening in 85. I don't knock anyone that was a fan pre Kraft days (I've been a fan since the late 80s), but lets not pretend that a team with 4 playoff wins in 33 years wasn't crappy most of the time.

Saints, Lions, even Bears, Jets and Bills and Browns and Falcons and others were crappy moreso.

 

[Galeb]

Saints, Lions, even Bears, Jets and Bills and Browns and Falcons and others were crappy moreso.

Only 3 of the teams you listed were clearly worse than the Pats from 1960 to 1993. Three of the remaining 4 teams were clearly better than the Pats during that time period.

The Saints were clearly worse at 0-4 playoff record from 1967-1993.

The Lions certainly sucked worse. From 1960-1993 they had a playoff record of 1-5.

The Falcons were worse at 2-4 in the playoffs from 1966-1993.

The Bills have were 13-11 in the playoffs from 1963-1993 (3 less years than NE).

The Bears were 7-8 in the playoffs and won 1 Superbowl from 1960 to 1993.

The Jets were 5-6 in the playoffs and won 1 Superbowl from 1960 to 1993.

The Browns were 6-12 in the playoffs from 1960 to 1993.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Only 3 of the teams you listed were clearly worse than the Pats from 1960 to 1993. Three of the remaining 4 teams were clearly better than the Pats during that time period.

The Saints were clearly worse at 0-4 playoff record from 1967-1993.

The Lions certainly sucked worse. From 1960-1993 they had a playoff record of 1-5.

The Falcons were worse at 2-4 in the playoffs from 1966-1993.

The Bills have were 13-11 in the playoffs from 1963-1993 (3 less years than NE).

The Bears were 7-8 in the playoffs and won 1 Superbowl from 1960 to 1993.

The Jets were 5-6 in the playoffs and won 1 Superbowl from 1960 to 1993.

The Browns were 6-12 in the playoffs from 1960 to 1993.

Thank you for the stats, I wasn't emphasizing the 60's. How about the Bengals? The Bucs? Um, the Seahawks?

 

[Galeb]

Thank you for the stats, I wasn't emphasizing the 60's. How about the Bengals? The Bucs? Um, the Seahawks?

You were talking about the Pats before the Kraft era, that is 1960-1993. I already eliminated enough of your examples to disprove your point, so there's no need to for me to research your most recent examples.

I expected that you were Rusty before. Now I'm almost certain.

 

[jimnance]

Sorry but if you weren't alive to see the Pats in the 60's and 70's then you're really not qualified to comment on how good or bad they were. Most of y'all commenting weren't even born and you're way off the mark. Let me set the record straight because I was there: the 60s Patriots were good more often than not in the AFL and had some exciting players - including my namesake, hands down the best Pats RB of all time.

In the mid 70's they had very good teams, and one great team - 1976, the best team in the NFL that year. The 76 club was much stronger than the 85 team that went to the SB. Pats had decent teams in the 80's.

The TRUE suckiness period was the late 80's and especially the early 90s. Parcells brought them back to respectability. The BB/TB era is the greatest longest-running dynasty in NFL history. I didn't think any team would ever do what the miners did in the 80s but the Pats surpassed it.

That being said, don't rewrite history. The actual team (I'm talking product on the field ONLY) was never a laughingstock except for brief period in early 90s. Part of that bad rep wasn't due to the team, but the ownership. Billy Sullivan was one of the biggest clowns to ever own an NFL team. But most of the actual teams weren't terrible; some good some mediocre. The biggest laughingstock in the NFL in the 60s was the Steelers. Year after year they sucked.

 

[Galeb]

Sorry but if you weren't alive to see the Pats in the 60's and 70's then you're really not qualified to comment on how good or bad they were. Most of y'all commenting weren't even born and you're way off the mark. Let me set the record straight because I was there: the 60s Patriots were good more often than not in the afl- had dome exciting players incl. my namesake hands down best pats rb of all time. In the mid70's they hsf very good teams-and one great team-76-best team in the NFL that year. 76 was much stronger than the 85 team that went to the SB. Pats had decent teams in the 80's. The TRUE suckiness period was late 80's- especially early 90s. Parcells brought em back to respectability. The BB/TB era is the greatest longest- running dynasty in NFL history. I didn't think any team would ever do what the miners did in the 80s but Pats surpassed it. That being said- don't rewrite history. The actual team(I'm talking product on the field ONLY) was never a laughingstock except for brief period in early 90s. Part of that bad rep, wasn't due to the team but the ownership. Billy Sullivan was one of the biggest clowns to ever own an NFL team. But most of the actual teams weren't terrible- some good some mediocre. The biggest laughingstock in the NFL in the 60s was the steelers. Year after year they sucked.

Good teams rarely miss the playoffs. A 4-6 playoff record in 30 years is crap no matter what you think your eyes told you. Sure, I didn't watch games before the mid 80s. That doesn't change the fact that a team that makes the playoffs 6 times in 30 years, loses 50% more playoff games than they win and never wins a Superbowl, has been crappy more often than not.

 

[aluminum seats]

Which is why Patriots fans should be able to see us win looking like us on the field, and not the NFL-manufactured arena league castoff uglies forced upon us.

The Atlanta Braves got it right. The former Milwaukee- and Boston- franchise wore some silly costumes in the 70's and 80's, however in 1990 they came to their senses and restored their traditional, classy uniforms, then won a bunch of pennants and a World Series, with local boy Tom Glavine. They played - and looked - like champions.

I don't care that much about uniforms, tbh. Current ones seem ok.

 

[SalemPats]

It's okay except that the Pats were competitive and relevant in the 70's and 80's, light years better than the Bills of the 21st century. There were many big victories there along the way.

My point was not an exact comparison with the current Bills. I just wanted to make a point that we were a mediocare team