OT: BRADY or PAPI....

[TyronePoole]

This is such an loltastic question, you are comparing a guy who is a top 10 QB all time to a DH with a 44 WAR. I'm someone who thinks Brady is fairly overrated around these parts but it's not even close at all. Ortiz might not even be HOF (he probably shouldn't be).

 

[Ring 6]

i DON'T CARE ABOUT IFS

"Pat's never cheated"

There is no if, and they didnt. Glad we got clear on something.

 

[Ring 6]

This is such an loltastic question, you are comparing a guy who is a top 10 QB all time to a DH with a 44 WAR. I'm someone who thinks Brady is fairly overrated around these parts but it's not even close at all. Ortiz might not even be HOF (he probably shouldn't be).

Sorry, Ortiz has no shot at the HOF. Even if he had the numbers he couldn't get in because of the PEDs.

 

[coolguy]

Does brady even have a game winning touchdown in the playoffs" this is a interesting question.


patriots fan's still don't think spygate was cheating? I don't care either way.

 

[Ring 6]

papi ALCS
And you you really think brady WAS more clutch than adam v or defense? When i think about that run the patriots went on TEN YEARS AGO i remember mostly defensive plays.

Of course he was.

 

[coolguy]

Sorry, Ortiz has no shot at the HOF. Even if he had the numbers he couldn't get in because of the PEDs.

What peds? you mean the ones "reported" by a new york paper?


He never failed a test since the drug policy was put in place.

 

[coolguy]

Of course he was.

Where's his game winning touchdowns in the playoffs? Adam v was clutch ten years ago.

 

[Ring 6]

What peds? you mean the ones "reported" by a new york paper?


He never failed a test since the drug policy was put in place.

He was in the report. Sorry but he juiced.

 

[Ring 6]

Where's his game winning touchdowns in the playoffs? Adam v was clutch ten years ago.

This is a silly discussion. If you want to think the kicker making a FG is more clutch than the QB who got him in position to, you can, and your opinion will be received about as well as all of your others in this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

What peds? you mean the ones "reported" by a new york paper?


He never failed a test since the drug policy was put in place.

Neither did Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc etc.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You can't compare them.

The boston sports trinity is Larry bird, big papi, and tom brady. Each have three rings and are loved by all.

The modern-ish era, I'd agree (last 30 years or so). It's hard to have a long-term discussion about Boston sports that doesn't involve the likes of Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, and Bill Russell, though.

Re: Ortiz vs. Brady, I dunno. There's probably a pretty sharp demographic split there, since younger fans tend to skew toward the Patriots, and older toward the Sox. I guess I'd take Brady if I had to pick which resonates more with me, but it's pretty close.

 

[coolguy]

He was in the report. Sorry but he juiced.

No he wasn't

"On the same day, the Major League Baseball Players Association issued a statement[16] pointing out that because of several factors, any player appearing on the list compiled by the federal government in 2003 did not necessarily test positive for performance enhancing drugs. Among those factors were that the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive. In addition, there were questions raised regarding the lab that performed the testing and their interpretation of the positive tests. Also, the statement pointed out that certain legal supplements that were available over the counter at the time could possibly cause a positive test result."

 

[ausbacker]

This is a silly discussion. If you want to think the kicker making a FG is more clutch than the QB who got him in position to, you can, and your opinion will be received about as well as all of your others in this thread.

Andy, I hope you realize the same argument you're trying to use for the importance of Brady can be directly applied to Big Papi?

The simple reality is players combine to put teams in a position to succeed. You can make the argument that Brady and Ortiz are as important as each other given their performances in the post-season and obvious visibility.

To me, arguing that one is more important than the other is absurd. They operate under different conditions to provide the same outcome. I'm happy that both are Boston legends.

 

[Fencer]

You can't compare them.

The boston sports trinity is Larry bird, big papi, and tom brady. Each have three rings and are loved by all.

Russell, Havlicek and Cousy have a lot more than 3 rings each.

Well, maybe not Cousy. He sold off a lot of his memorabilia when he cared for his wife.

 

[coolguy]

Neither did Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc etc.

They actually have evidence against them smarty pants.

where's papi evidence?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sorry, Ortiz has no shot at the HOF. Even if he had the numbers he couldn't get in because of the PEDs.

Ortiz will get in, and might be first-ballot after this latest run. His postseason performances set him apart from a lot of the other top hitters in the league, as well as the fact that he's been the face of one of the most storied teams in the league for the past decade, during which they won 3 titles. Suggesting that he won't get in at all is just crazy.

 

[coolguy]

This is a silly discussion. If you want to think the kicker making a FG is more clutch than the QB who got him in position to, you can, and your opinion will be received about as well as all of your others in this thread.

tell that to scott norwood. Adam v won the freaking game ten years ago.

 

[coolguy]

Andy, I hope you realize the same argument you're trying to use for the importance of Brady can be directly applied to Big Papi?

The simple reality is players combine to put teams in a position to succeed. You can make the argument that Brady and Ortiz are as important as each other given their performances in the post-season and obvious visibility.

To me, arguing that one is more important than the other is absurd. They operate under different conditions to provide the same outcome. I'm happy that both are Boston legends.

Damn, you just ruined my closing argument i was setting him up nicely before you blew it up.

 

[Patsrock]

It's a lot more impression to win 3 championships in a 'level playing field' sport as football and hockey pretty much are. Basketball is as well, except that luck plays a much bigger role in that sport -- ie being lucky enough to either draft or have cap space at the right time to get 2-3 top 10 players -- and then once you're lucky you're set for 5 years (unlike hockey and football where it's tough to keep your core together)

Winning 3 championships in baseball in my opinion is a lesser accomplishment than in the other sports simply cause it's really a sport of ~6 'haves' that have a far superior chance every year.

That said, Brady is a top 5 all time qb; Papi is not a top 5 all time hitter.

Since NFL went a salary cap

12 different NFL teams have won a Super Bowl(SF,Dal,GB,Den,STL,Bal,NE,TB,Pit,Indy,NYG,NO)

In that same time frame MLB with no salary cap
10 different teams have won a World Series(Atl,NY,Fla,Az,Ana,Bos,CWS,StL,Phl,SF,)

Multiple titles

NFL-GB,NE,Pit,NYG,Bal
MLB-Bos,NY,Fla,SF,STL

So between no cap and a cap. Not much difference

 

[TyronePoole]

Sorry, Ortiz has no shot at the HOF. Even if he had the numbers he couldn't get in because of the PEDs.

Nah, in 10ish years when he's up they'll come to the inevitable conclusion that everyone was on it and that they can't keep everyone out. Plus the bulk of his legacy was created after 2003 when he tested positive (for something). The PED issue will be a non factor by then.

What will be a factor is whether the BBWAA is dumb enough to confuse variance for heroics and clutch and blah blah blah talk radio etc.