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Osama Bin Forgotten

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by All_Around_Brown, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    This might be a good time for the monkey who claimed to want him "dead or alive" only to later claim that he "doesn't really think about him anymore" to roll his head out in front of the masses.

    Thoughts??

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/11/13_Laden.html
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  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Sore Loser Dingobats don't need Bin Laden now they've got "Filthy Foley"
    :rocker:
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What exactly is your proposal that The US invade Pakistan to get him?
     
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    LOL, they just want us to get him. Of course, if we kill civilians to do it they'll whine. And if American soldiers are killed to do it they'll whine.

    We should just say "come out, come out wherever you are" and arrest him when he comes out unarmed.
     
  5. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    I think he was just pointing out how Bush is a walking contradiction. From his initial presidential debates on invasions to his current position. The good news is, he effectively will have no power very soon.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The reason for his back track is simple. We don't want him. I've been explaining this for a while. My position is that the west doesn't want him to be captured, or die by our sword. The man is supposedly dying, if not already dead, and his death by the US would make a martyr out of him. Remember he is the face of the radical cause.
     
  7. Harry Boy

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    Bin Laden is Dying (hope he is suffering) Bush knows Bin Laden is dying, Bush wants Bin Laden to die in a Cave (so do I) Bush does not want Bin Laden to die a Hero in an American Prison with Cute Perky Katie "Gushing and Fawning" about him on TV each evening or the F-cking ACLU bastards sticking their sh!t stained noses into the whole mess.

    LIBERAL NEW DEMOCRATS WOULD LOVE TO SEE BIN LADEN CAPTURED AND BROUGHT TO AMERICA SO THEY COULD "USE HIM".

    If we capture Bin Laden and bring him to America the Liberal Colleges, the Liberal Students, the Liberal Professors, the Liberal Media, and those scummy Wife Swapping Pigs in Hollywood will turn him into a National Celebrity Hero, the Dixie Chicks will demand to be allowed to have Sex with him.

    Good work Mr President, let him rot in his cave with his f-cking donkey.
     
  8. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I completely disagree with the idea that capturing Bin Laden would be bad for the country and bad for Bush's political prospects. Seeing a couple of Marines drag him out from under some rock in Afghanistan would have done so much to heal our divisiveness its incalculable. I expect the RNC would have gladly paid to put a bullet-proof glass walkway up in front of Manhattan District Court just so there could be video of that animal being driven up to the sidewalk out front in chains and surrounded by US Marshals. That would have given the Repugs control of the government indefinitely.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I was friggin' giddy when it looked like we had him trapped at Tora Bora.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I also would like to see that "IF" they would do that, but we all know they would treat him like a king, the democrats would go nuts if we dragged him out or humiliated him or "offended" him.
    Pelosi & Murtha would set themselves on fire if the Marines "mistreated" him.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the fugger tied up and stoned. I think his capture or death would mean a minimum of 30 points added to Bush's approval rating. I agree there. The reasons why I don't think the west wants him is the effect globally. If we zapped UBL what would happen inside Pakistan? Would it mean a coup in that country? Would it cause massive individual suicide attacks accross the globe? Would it increase the radical cause ten fold? And at what benefit? Is UBL that big a fish in the TWAT cause? Is he more of a figure head, a trophy if you will, as opposed to an actual hard target who's death would weaken Al-Queda? I think that these are all valid questions and angles that are considered when UBL comes up in the Oval office. Politicially and socially, his death or capture would be worth something, but is this a political and social fight, or is it a genuine war to preserve freedom accross the globe? I just think his death or capture may not be more of a detriment to the cause than it would a gain.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  11. All_Around_Brown

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    IMO, if we killed or captured him at Tora Bora, we might have been able to claim that we were serious about eliminating a bona fide threat to our society. By letting him get away, we have given our leaders the convenient excuse to keep americans afraid every election year...a point that the Bush-Rove-Cheney-Rummy cabal has made clear is something in their best interests. (It puts beaucoup money into their war chests)

    What follows from that fear, of course, is the authoritative government you see today and their increasingly aggressive assault on the US constitution. ...and an intimidated media. No questions asked, please.
     
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that immediately following 9/11 his death or capture, prefferably his death, would have been less damaging from the radical angle. I don't think we "let" him get away as much as he simply got away. I'm not sure enough people understand the terrain we're talking about here. Should we have sent in more US troops (the 600 or so Rangers)? Absolutely. Would that have guaranteed his demise/capture? Not at all. I don't doubt for one second that there are individuals in the fold who feel his existence helps the GOP cause, but I don't think that would dictate policy over the real world ramifications of what his death or capture would bring. Clearly, Al-Queda would not cease to exist if UBL was caught tomorrow. Therfore the benefit of his existence is not infinite. Al-Queda would still be an everlasting threat. I happen to feel that the unpopularity of Musharefs aide to the US cause is part of the equation. Remember, that part of the world never has been very stable. Pakistan has a very distinguished population that is split along reformist policies versus old school islamics. Were the radicals to gain power, that would most likely result in two things, the control of nuclear arms in radical islamist hands, and a war with India. It's why I don't feel that the Admin is only in this for political gain, it's too over reaching an issue for it to be. Now, again, that doesn't mean that politics isn't mixed in. Only a fool would think not. It simply means that the politics, in relation to the GOP, is somewhat limited.
     
  13. All_Around_Brown

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    Real, I agree to an extent. I agree that Al-Q would not be effectively eliminated by his death. His prophecies alone have created what Richard Clarke would call a 'medusa effect'. A-Q is unfortunately stronger now with our invasion and subsequent occupation of an oil rich nation, however, and his death would have relatively minimal comparative effects of increasing the jihadist supply. The cause celebre as the NIE calls it is still our presence in Iraq, no matter how much we regret this geopolitical blunder.

    Instead of killing him, apprehend him!! And bring him to justice for the trial of the century...the granddaddy of all trials!!! This would be, for all intents and purposes, our demonstration to moderate Islam that we are a nation of laws and that our system of justice is still our greatest strength, and makes US the greatest nation on earth.

    Then give him the most cruel and unusual legal method of incarceration- a cell mate by the name of Dick Cheney.
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Trial of the century? This isn't network television. There is no way they want this guy alive. Look at the lunacy of the Saddam Trial. A UBL trial would have massive negative connotations globally. MAss riots, mass bombings, the murder of all things western. Look at what a couple of cartoons did, imagine what capturing or killing UBL would mean. I think you seriously under estimate how popular UBL is in the muslim world as a whole. Furthermore, what if the potential trial went Simpson'esqe? What then? What if the muslim world felt guilt beyond a reasonable doubt was not proven? Would you set him free? Of course not. So where would that help? Again, if this were merely political, Carl Rove himself would be hiking the mountains of Pakistan looking for UBL in time for the November elections. The way it's looking nothing short of that will save the GOP from saving seats.
     
  15. All_Around_Brown

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    Real, the Bush regime has shattered our image of what Reagan referred to as a "shining beacon of democracy". The way to restore it is to bring the man to justice and get him incarcerated.

    We are talking about the man everyone in the world knows was responsible for the greatest terrorist act in history. You just want to brush him under the rug for fear of what a few radicals would think of us??

    Theres the diff between us. I want the man subjected to justice, while we have a chance to show we still are a nation of laws.
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I've gotten into many an arguement over Reagans politics. I'm not quite sure Reagan would be held in such high regard under todays media. His regime clearly would not have so easily hid his black ops policies with a multitude of 24 hour cable news outlets, the internet boom, and modern communications means of today. How different would a 2006 Reagan Administration be from a 1980's Admin? Reagan was very ends justifies the means. King George is much the same way.


    See, you're wrong about the world and UBL. Everyone, well most of, the western population does, but in the muslim world the numbers are far different. Most muslims, even those in western nations, do not believe Arabs carried out the 911 attacks.

    [​IMG]

    DID ARABS CARRY OUT 9/11?
    British Muslims: 56% No
    French Muslims: 46% No
    Indonesia: 65% No
    Egypt: 59% No
    Turkey: 59% No
    Jordan: 53% No
    (Source: Pew Center)


    With sentiment like that, how are you going to get such primitives to believe your trial is legitimate? I think some of us don't quite understand the cultural, and societal differences involved here. Although radical islam is only a fraction of the globes muslim population, the entire pop as a whole is still rather primitive in comparrison to its western counterparts. This issue, TWAT, is far more complicated than people realize. It's not that I want to sweep the scumbag under the rug. Believe me when I say that I'd like to see his nuts diced up and served to seagulls. But the broader picture is what matters here. The destruction of Al-Queda is more important than the symbolistic capture of a figure head.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2006
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No matter what Muslim did it the whole middle east was dancing in the streets, Saddam went out on his balcony and masturbated then he shot his gun off in the air, the smellies on the street looked up and applauded.
     
  18. All_Around_Brown

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    You must both be incensed then that, according to the latest NIE, Iraq has given the jihadist movement cause celebre for recruitment like never before.

    Well done. You party has provided ample fuel for a whole new generation of muslim radicals.

    Iraq is now the recruitment poster for everything we were trying to defeat. Smart move by chuckle in chief.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Again Brown, I'm not sure why that would be news? Is it coincidence that military recruiting in this country rose sharply after 9/11? Do you think UBL & Co should have been shocked at that increase? This fight isn't about the next few years, as much as it is about the next generation. The Cold War was a generational campaign. Most feel that radical islam may be similar. The NIE report wasn't anything everyone shouldn't have already known.
     

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