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Organized chaos

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mayoclinic, Dec 21, 2009.

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  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's the term Adalius Thomas used to describe the 0-5-6 defense which the Pats used at times against Buffalo yesterday.

    New England Patriots use wrinkle on defense against Buffalo Bills - ESPN Boston
    Name that defense - Extra Points - Boston.com

    Sounds a bit like a defensive version of the Wildcat - the offense doesn't know what players to block because there are so many LBs lined up at the LOS. It's a bit like all the pass rushers the Jets threw at us week 2, which caused a lot of confusion.

    Sounds like BB used a variant of it in 2003 against the Bills to, though I don't recall that. It's hard to argue with 6 sacks and 2-12 on 3rd down, even against the Bills.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, we've used it before and Crennel used it in Cleveland too. It probably wouldn't work as well against more veteran OL (well, it definitely wouldn't work AS well, how well it would work is uncertain) but it's something to consider in pure passing situations if our pass rush continues to be non existent.
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    It was actually the 2002 game in Buffalo. How I remember that I haven't a clue.
  4. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    You know, this is a formation that will work great against the Colts. Against the Colts, the bigmen hurt you more than help you when Manning goes into his quick stuff. Play 0-5-6 and lets see what he will do in the fourth quarter.
  5. BelichickFan

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    It could, especially as they run the ball so little and so ineffectively. They have a very veteran OL, though, so it might look very different. However it's almost incumbent that we try something different at this point.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good thought. They don't really have the personnel to run it down your throat, and even if they did that would take them out of their game.

    Doubt it would work well against the Saints though, if we ever get another chance this season.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    The Jets did something similar against the Pats under Mangini.
  8. BradyManny

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    We used a similar D against San Fran last season if memory serves. I believe that was 1 DL.

    I'm surprised BB hasn't brought it out against a better passing team - maybe that's a telling fact, in spite of the success it had yesterday. Still, it'd be great to see it implemented come January. It's been a while since Manning has had to face any pressure behind that O-Line...
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  9. PatsWickedPissah

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    Remember the game against Bledsoe? All the LBs walking around pre snap confused the hell out of The Statue. That was the debut. Belichick referred to using the 'organized chaos' scheme in that earlier Bills game in his post game press conf yesterday.
  10. SVN

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    manning will figure out what to do in 2 seconds. there is a reason BB pulls this out in certain situations.. slight difference between fitzpatrick and manning.
  11. wiggins!

    wiggins! Rookie

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    They've referred to it in the past as the "mooing cow" defense. No one with their hand down.....everyone standing up moving around at the time of the snap.
  12. Big-T

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    I remember the Browns using it on MNF last year against the Broncos and Tirico I think it was said Romeo called it the "UFO Defense"
  13. RoughingthePasser

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    I've always liked to see the D mix up different looks
    This could work in key situations like the pass plays but we need to have the rush hit the right gaps. Those dudes practice w/ Freeney etc. so it should be quick and the matchup should be thought about...
  14. muzz

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    Frankenhead would figure that out and shred them badly.
  15. BionicPatriot

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    BB says today it was more due to peronel related. So do we see it again?
  16. MrBigglesWorth

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    nice to see AD back on board and talking football. I'm glad to have him back. I hope he continues being focused on football
  17. IcyPatriot

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    Yup ..................... :yeahthat:
  18. vuudu

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    Well, at the moment, it looks like whatever we put out there, he figures it out under 1 sec, so it will be an improvement:p. Really, the guy has played us so many times that he knows what we will do, so the only way forward is to bring some chaos to our formation, we should act like we are confuse and don't know how we are going to line up. Next time against this guys, we just have to reduce the big plays and we will be alright.
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    You sure about that? Because in 2004 when BB had Law & Harrison switch positions, the goober couldn't get his act together and only put up 3 points.

    We haven't had the personnel to F with Manning's head for a while. I think we do now with our versatile group of D-Backs and LB. It's not our most skilled defense, but its our most versatile in a while. And this year, we held him in check for 3 quarters until the meltdown.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  20. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    Bingo. The operative word in BB's philsophy is versatility. He has always put out various iterations of the confusion based versatility game. When they had the personnel to execute, players would go into three points out of two points and vice versa. DB's would switch positions at the snap, the Mike would always be disguised, and when pressure came, it would be extremely hard to read. There were zone blitzes, standard dog blitzes, standing stunts, and many mixed coverages. Diverse, versatile defense.

    The reason the "Organized Chaos" concept is effective is because it exploits the design of the blocking. Typical offense is predicated upon finding the Mike and making a check for a slide. From there it is something along the lines of "RG: Peek at NT, read head-up backer, seal". If it is more evolved, the protection or blocking scheme is still reliant upon the vision of the offensive line. A lineman will sit in his stance (typically having better vision from a pass stance than a run stance) and read the defense. He will evaluate the potential moves the defense could make based upon alignment and blocking scheme. For example, a tackle will have to be aware of an end crashing across his face, pulling him inside to open the outside for a rushing backer. If the linemen cannot identify the alignment of the front, it significantly inhibits their ability to be alert to confusion. It takes the main advantage of the offense and puts it in the hands of the defense.

    It's nice to see that the coaching again has the confidence in their personnel to play this style of defense. It's been a while since we saw BB get after it defensively, and this is an indicator of how good a defense they have. Fun stuff.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  21. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Even if it didn't work all the time, it'd be nice to dust off every once in a while to force an offense to prepare for it.

    It's similar to how some teams switch to a no-huddle attack mid-game for a drive or two just to try and catch them off-guard. By the time they adjust, you could switch back. Anything to keep the opposition on their toes.
  22. WhiZa

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    I think Fitzpatrick got it right when he said the Pats were testing the communication of the OL. Especially when they were starting a player that was only on the team for 4 days. I dont expect them to try it again against a better team
  23. SVN

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    well. you cant honestly say he is the same QB as 4-5 yrs ago. lot more experience ,lot more confidence. Iam sure once its on tape they will know how to handle it.Iam not saying it will not work @ all but not more than 1 or 2 plays ...its hard to compare the same bills o line and QB with the colts.
  24. SVN

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    i dont know too much about techinical stuff but in the past when this look was given ..jaws and others said the best way is to call a Quick run play. someone like manning might change the snap count and call a quick run play or something else.
    if this thing was as revolutionary like the 46 defense BB would use it more.Also the moving around at the line of scrimmage is fine but you have to get back in position before the ball is snapped.Against a good QB it wont be easy...
  25. tuckeverlasting

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    we call it the "11 guys milling around" defense. since the first time i saw it i liked it, but against manning, well, you better get to him.
  26. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think anything's easy against a good QB, not to mention against someone like Manning. And the NFL adjusted to the 4-6 defense, too. But mixing it up a bit might not be a bad idea. He'll adjust to whatever you do, but if you keep mixing it up at least you're making him work more.
  27. Patjew

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    That was the 2003 AFCCG when Law had 3 picks. Law didn't play in the 21-3 game.
  28. Twentytothree

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    20-3. Please. ;)
  29. SVN

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    sure and i think the pats have mixed it up with manning as much as they think they can.But unlike buffalo where we ran this defensive look so many times it cant be used that many times against the colts as someone suggested that they we should try this against the colts.
    Most of the gameplans are matchups thats why we have certain packages against only certain teams and personnel. I remember after the 20-3 over the colts in the AFC div playoff game BB was asked if they need to play same kinda defense against the steelers. He bristled and said something like that "if we run the same defense against the steelers they will be running out the clock in the 3rd Quarter" or something like that.
    easy to get excited about something working against buffalo but it was more the opponent and our limitation with the DLine other than anytthing else.
  30. TheBostonStraggler

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    What AT should be calling the defense, when asked, is "no comment". When asked what the date is, he should answer "no comment". At this point in time and after what happened, he should keep media comments to himself and be ALL about doing his talking on the field....imho.
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