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Opinions Consolidated: How bad does the Bodden loss hurt us?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Armen Da Pats Fan, Sep 1, 2010.

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  1. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    Good:

    • Barring the signing of some journeyman veteran CB, we will really get to see how these young turks we have been drafting the past 3-4 years are going to handle the workload.
    • The future was probably gonna be Darius Butler and McCourty anyway, so now we just to get to see it sooner.
    • I love to watch young kids coming into their own during the course of a season, especially in a Belichick defense.

    Bad:

    • Bodden is our only real veteran CB.
    • He played well for us last year, although I kind of thought he parlayed a decent season into a contract that paid him more than he is worth.
    • To his credit, he played well enough on the right team at the right time, a team that had very few veteran options at CB.
    • He will be missed for that reason (vet presence), if nothing else. With the young guns on deck, we may pay some heavy tolls early in the season until they become acclimated.
  2. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Good:

    There isn't any. Sure, the young guns will get playing time and experience. Yippee. Can't wait to see Wilhite and Wheatley make their yearly trip to the injury report. The pass rush will help ....wait...nope, we don't have one of those.

    Bad:

    See above.

    BTW - your report on Bodden wasn't exactly glowing. Bodden is a physical corner who plays in the system well. He was their best d-back. Now we have Butler (who looks like doo-doo this pre-season - take that for what it's worth) who is a pi machine - McCourty the rookie, wilhite and wheatley - the Giant Glass Bros, and Arrington who can hit - and not sure what else. We have safties that can hit too - and most them can't cover, except for Merriweather - he can - would like more consistency.
  3. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    The kids would have seen a significant amount of playing time anyway, and quite possibly in areas of strength rather than necessity. There's no way to sugar coat this, it's a big loss, much like Ty Warren.

    I feel like Butler and McCourty have the potential to be fine as our starting outside corners, but they're going to make mistakes, and our depth just took a huge blow. Where this will hurt is against a team like Indy who spreads the ball around to a lot of WRs. In those cases, Wheatley and Wilhite will play prominent roles, and if any of our four guys go down now we're plugging a ST'er in their place.
  4. FloridaPatsFan

    FloridaPatsFan Rookie

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    Now, more than ever, the need for a pass-rush just took on a substantially greater need than before the Bodden injury....

    I believe this offense can average 30 points a game....but there are a lot of decent teams on our schedule that have good passing games that are going to have thier way with us....and score a lot of points...

    Hope the remaining secondary guys are ready to see a lot of passes coming thier way...
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is no way to spin this to be a good thing. Bodden was a solid #2 CB last year. Placing him on IR will hurt this defense.

    That said, I don't know if this is going to be an insurmountable loss. I think it will be easier to overcome than the loss of Ty Warren. Yes, the McCourty and Butler really struggled last week (although McCourty made some great plays to go along with his horrendous ones), but they were solid the previous two weeks before. They may have some growing pains and make some mistakes, but they could also develop into a strong CB tandem within a month or two (see Miami last year with two rooke CBs). Wheatley seems to be returning closer to what he was in his rookie year before his injury (where he was starting to take over a starting position) rather than the timid CB of the last two years.

    Personally, I think McCourty has the potential to be a top CB in this league. He was a shutdown CB in college and he has already shown glipses of being able to do the same in the Pros (most notably how he took on an excellent receiver in Roddy White in the second preseason game). But potential in the NFL is not a lock to turn into production. The league is littered with players with a lot of talent and next to zero production. I am hopeful that McCourty is a guy who realizes his talent at this level and becomes a solid #1 CB.

    The defense is not as good as it could be with Bodden on it. But I still think the Pats can overcome this injury if McCourty and Butler develop and quickly.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  6. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Let's see, we've got no pass rush and our corners haveabout two years of combined NFL experience.

    And on top of that, people are wondering if we can stop the run.

    I hope this offense is planning on scoring a lot.
  7. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    They're gonna burn, plain and simple.

    They're gonna burn.

    But you know what they say...about Fire and Steel.

    2010 will be a Wild Ride.

    And at the end of the day, I believe it will have this in common with 2000: Prelude to a Dynasty.
  8. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    I think where this also has a trickle down effect is on our safety play. With Bodden, there were more situations where he didn't need safety help (not a ton, but more). I'm guess there won't be as many situations now where the safeties can play up, blitz, roam, etc, because you're going to need them to help over the top for the young guys.

    Things that will help mitigate Bodden's loss (not saying they're likely, just possibilities):

    - Continued development of Brace to stop the run (better 3rd down situations) and provide pressure by collapsing the pocket.

    - Combination of Burgess/Cunningham/Murrell/Ninkovich improving and providing some pressure opposite TBC.

    - Continued development of Meriweather/Chung.

    - McGowan/Sanders, if one of these guys can play well at a "true" safety spot, it would free Meriweather to fill in at more man cover duties in some situations.

    - Offense grinding out long drives to keep the defense fresh.
  9. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    And I do not understand this at all. We haven't seen any sign in preseason of the run defense being a problem.
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We did in the last game, but not the two previous games.
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    You mean when they allowed the Rams an otherworldly 3.3 YPC on the ground?
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats struggled with Jackson (a lot of teams do) and a lot with the first stringers. It wasn't a disaster, but they had problems. The overall average does not indicate how the game actually went.
  13. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    Jackson had 4.4 ypc (not great for us), on FIVE carries. His long was 9 yards, which is a bad run to give up but it's not like it was a devastating one. So a tough 9 yard run, then 4 carries for 13 yards. I'm not impressed.
  14. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Time to tee up one of those James Sanders/Lawrence Maroney/Nick Kaczur for Nnamdi trades.
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    5 carries by one of the best RBs in the game is too small of a sample size to judge whether or not they would have trouble over the course of a game. Especially when the long was given up on a rookie error by McCourty.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  16. SuperPatsFan

    SuperPatsFan Rookie

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    This loss is absolutely devastating.

    I love the Patriots and I want them to win the Super Bowl, but right now I don't see this team reaching 0.500.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  17. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I agree..it stinks big time...I was HOPING that Bodden would start with Butler..which did not even happen in the 3rd PS game...If there is good news..it has been that they have played 3 games together albeit PS..but better than none..BUT that may be the consolation prize lowered down. Little experience there..as the 2 Ws..are backups.. Wheatley is smart and I have seen a few good plays from him in the PS..but??? Injuries and inexperience make in tenuous at best. A vet is needed just for some stability and I really think THAT will happen..whether its a trade or a vet who is cut and looking.
    They are stronger at safety..BUT..McGowan is injured...NOT good. What this all means is another LARGE question mark for the year..never a GREAT way to start and seeing TO and Ocho Cinco for starters is NOT the way to. Patience may be needed....BUT CLEARLY not a time of panic..football is strange and writing it off now way way TOO early.
  18. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Our average defense just became below average. I see a lot of high-scoring games and a record of 9-7. The losses of Bodden and Ty Warren might prove to have been the difference in making the playoffs, it's sad to say.
  19. SuperPatsFan

    SuperPatsFan Rookie

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    No pass rush, no secondary. You'd have to be on something pretty powerful to see this team making the playoffs, sad to say. :(
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    You might want to, oh, I don't know. Wait for the season to start before declaring we have no pass rush -- no?
  21. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Cousin, I feel that Brandon Spikes maybe the difference in the run game this year. Seriously, I think he has been our best LB in the pre-season. Does anyone disagree? His girth, and there was no pun intended so stop it and enough with that, has been apparent compared to Guyton last year and a semi-injured Mayo. I am a little concerned with Mayo so far.

    Here is the "IFS":
    Brace
    Spikes
    Mayo
    Chung
    And a "must" pick up of a vet who can put the pressure on the QB. Why did we wiff on Wimbly? Who was sleeping there? He was a steal. I have watched him play for Oakland and he has been sound. Dallas is desperate for OL help and has a few pieces. Our cowboy to the Cowboys? DE John Henderson might have been an important pick up for nada. Ellis awaits a phone call. Still love to see Manny Lawson here and I think he can be had.
    What about Osi Umenyiora? They have a surplus at DE or even the 6'7" Chris Canty who is playing a DT spot for the Giants. He disappointed there. Wasn't he a Dallas 3-4 DE that could rush the passer (he was consistent at 3-4 sack per year but with Ware he didn't have to be "that" guy)?

    If these IFS can produce 20%-25% of an effort BETTER THAN LAST YEAR, it will take pressure off of the two kid CB's if not, TB better have a pro-bowl year toward points per game. "Running up the score" or so they say, would be a must especially if #24 is on the field. Would I take the old #24 back for the season to help out?....yep.

    I am not a Wheatley fan and thought his loss would be insignificant not if, but when he was cut. He has certainly played decent this pre-season so I must eat my words so far.

    As far as the "quick twitch" little smurfy CBs in the future? I think that experiment was B.S. and a major fail. It came back to bite us so I do not expect to see those types of picks from this organization again. I think they go after another CB in 2011 the type of Bodden. The WR are getting bigger every year. Our 5' 10" CBs are still an issue. Jump balls with T.O. , Marshall and even Edwards will kill us. Bodden hurts. Quick twitch CBs hopefully left with Pioli.
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  22. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No offense, no secondary, you'd have to be on something pretty powerful to see the JETS or Dolphins making the playoffs if you looked at things in perspective...
  23. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    Definitely a loss that could hurt, but IIRC, Bodden was released by the Lions last year. He had a very good season with the Pats; at the same time I take some solace in having a coach with a good track record of developing DBs.

    On McCourty: Anyone think this means he'll be used less on special teams now that he'll have to play more DB? Seems like that could hurt the team too.
  24. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Yes, of course he'll be used less on ST...that is why having a vet MAY help stabilize and aid the young ones in the backfield..MAY also allow DM more ST time. NOW..I would say VERY limited because of depth....
  25. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    By the end of the year I think they'll be much improved. It'll be a little rough though.

    Depending on how bad the rotator cuff is, it could be a career ender. I had mine fixed and while it's better it's still weaker and in some positions my mobility is limited. Reaching for something at an awkward angle it feels a little weird like it's part paralyzed or something.

    I think it will probably be fine but it's a nasty thing to get. They cut mine all the way through before sewing it back up and I couldn't lift anything for about 3 months. It's still a lot tighter than the other side and it's been over a year.
  26. Rob0729

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    Would McCourty be used that much in the regular season on special teams anyway? It looks like Tate might have won the kick return responsibilities last week. McCourty hasn't been on the punt return unit. If Tate is doing kick returns and what we saw vs. the Rams is indicative of what he can do on that unit, barring injury McCourty not playing special teams will not be a factor at all.
  27. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    I was thinking more along the lines of how McCourty blocked I think 6 or 7 punts in college, though I guess they haven't used him that way in pre-season.
  28. MoLewisrocks

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    McCourty was drafted based on his ability to be what Bill characterized as a four down player...
  29. Rob0729

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    And I am sure he will probably play four downs, but if he doesn't it looks like it may not be a huge loss since there looks to be other players who stand out.
  30. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, a lot of the defensive starters stay out on the punt return units. I don't know how making him a fulltime starter would change this. If he loses time on special teams because of his playing time, it will most likely be on the kick return unit as a returner.
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