patsfan-1982
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Here's the stats showing SB winners and losers over the years and there O & D rankings. I put a box around the more lopsided teams 1 way or another. Rankings are by points and yards to the right
Here is a shocking statistic:
Of the 8 teams with the highest net points all 8 made the playoffs.
Where'd you get this? What 4 teams gave up fewer points than the 85 bears?
I read that article, and two things jumped out at me.
1) He never bothered to mention that the Pats were 15th in his only defensive criteria, points against ... probably because it isn't really "lousy."
2) The Pats gave up 3.6 points/game less than the defensive juggernaut Giants.
Yeah, great reasoning. .
That is why many here would prefer to play the 49ers. We don't particularly want to play against a top offense. We'd rather test our offense against the best defense in the nfl. I agree with that choice.
I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played. Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now. Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career, but that didn't help the Giants until they started playing better D There has been a propensity on this board, this year, to declare that you don't need defense to win probably because early on until BB shook things up that the Pats didn't have much of one.No you are the one ignoring Facts.
Fact: In terms of points, the Giants offense is ranked 9th, the defense is ranked 25th.
Fact: In terms of yards, the Giants offense is ranked 8th, the defense is ranked 27th.
Any way you slice it there are two teams (or half) that have a better offense than defense.
That is the FACT
I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play
Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played.
Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now.
Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career,
I know this is a Pats Fan(atic) board, i guess i shouldn't expect much in the way of Objective observation.
The bottom line is the Pats are the last of the Offensive jugernauts left.
I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played. Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now. Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career, but that didn't help the Giants until they started playing better D There has been a propensity on this board, this year, to declare that you don't need defense to win probably because early on until BB shook things up that the Pats didn't have much of one.
I know this is a Pats Fan(atic) board, i guess i shouldn't expect much in the way of Objective observation. I've seen what happens when anyone dares to try to question anything. But this season has been like a trip down the rabbit hole into Alice in Wonderland land. Don't need Defense, defense is worthless. Don't need balance on offense, we can just throw our way out of anything.
The bottom line is the Pats are the last of the Offensive jugernauts left. You can spin it anyway you want it. I'm not saying they can't win the SB, but it makes it much harder the odds are against them Got it....Kid
As it turns out, when it comes to being "offense-first," "defense-first," or more balanced, there's no 'secret sauce' to winning in the playoffs.
In an article for ESPN, Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders "took a look at what balance means for playoff performance for all playoff teams over the past 20 years. First, I figured out the average playoff record by playoff seed...
Then I went through each team and figured the difference between its actual playoff record and the playoff record expected from a team with the same playoff seed. There was no correlation between that number and how balanced or imbalanced a team was between offense and defense."
See, that's how you go about it when you're looking to actually find something out, rather than build an argument to support what you already think. 20 years with no correlation between offense-to-defense balance and improvement over a team's seed's average win% is pretty impossible to argue with. Offense-first, defense-first: it just doesn't matter.
Don't need balance on offense, we can just throw our way out of anything.
That's because Aaron Shchwartz doesn't want to accept that yard per point does a better job at predicting anything he and his website ever came up with. He doesn't understand yards per point, and he admittedly had no clue what it was until 2 years AFTER he invented his DVOA ratings.
Then he backtracked and made a very weak argument against yards per point, explaining it backwards from a logical standpoint to try to prove DVOA is a better measurement. He used funny numbers such as drive stats adjusted for average defenses(adjusted for strength of opponent) and compared it to RAW yards per point efficiency stats, unadjusted for strength of opponent.
Offensive efficiency, yards per point, still came out ahead as the best predictor of winning ahead of offensive VOA, and only DVOA came out ahead of NET yard per point(which is a terrible way of doing it anyway) but that's because NET yard per point, was not adjusted for strength of opponent.
Not an objective argument and comparison.
Having said that, yard per point remains true. 8-0 The team with the overall more efficient offense who wins the turnover battle wins. The way to win the turnover battle isn't defense, it's still your offense. The best way to win the turnover battle is to not throw an interception.
Let them try to force a fumble, but don't give them away the ball.
And by efficiency standards:
SF's offense is #2 and their defense is #1
Pat's offense is #3 and Pats defense is #2.
The Patriots have a more efficient defense than they do an offense. The Patriots have the better defense than they do offense as of right now. As shocking as it might be to some people, it's just a fact.
To me seeing the Pats defense do what it did is not a surprise. The defense that spends the MOST time on the football field, that gives up the MOST yards, the LONGEST drives and yet FEWEST points is the best defense.
It goes against everything that ESPN, traditional stats and conventional wisdom says and conventional wisdom is simply wrong.
The best defense is NOT the one that gets off the field. It's the one that stays on the field, wants to be on the field, loves to hit and doesn't allow points. And that's the Patriots defense. Coach Bellichick knows this. The Patriots do have the ability to win the time of possession but they never do. Bottom of the league. They can easily take their time and score slow if they want to, but they do not.
What you want as a good defense, if you really want a good defense isn't a 3 and out:
-you want a physically tough defense with the longer endurance
-you want a physical defense who WANTS to be on the field physically beating up your opponent's offense for the longest of time while not allowing points and forcing fumbles
-the phrase "wearing down a defense" used to make sense when defensive players were big fat guys that were not in shape. Not anymore.
-you want those offenses on there so you can beat up on them for 60 yards and then keep them from scoring. It's what makes an offense inefficient and the most deflating thing possible.
-and with the #2 special teams defense you can do that, because opponent offenses start further back, and chances are good, you will get a stop before they make the endzone.
Did anybody see Tim Tebow's face after the game? That's what happens after you face a GOOD defense. The 49ers are not tested. They get 3 and outs, but they won't be able to against the Pats. They have not gone the distance and they showed weakness against the Saints. What you want is to break down their offense because usually the last one to score wins. So you want to have the sharpest, and healthiest offense, ready to go in the 4th quarter running that 2 minute drill.
And for the other 58 minutes you want your offense to score quickly and your defense out there to beat up on much smaller guys. The cool thing is NE's offense also have big physical guys. So they beat you up from both sides.
Please stop. For one thing, you've posted a lot on this topic without offering links and verification, and your claims about the Patriots defense are simply unbelievable. Even more importantly, though, my post was just a way to get a Meatballs clip into the thread.