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Only One Offense first NFL team Alive


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i have been saying all year that this defense is not good, but they are geting some players back and the playoffs are a whole new season and the pats are ranked #1 over all in defense right now
 
Here's the stats showing SB winners and losers over the years and there O & D rankings. I put a box around the more lopsided teams 1 way or another. Rankings are by points and yards to the right

Where'd you get this? What 4 teams gave up fewer points than the 85 bears?
 
So, the teams that score more points than the other team make the playoffs. How shocking! Net points is such a strange stat! :)

Here is a shocking statistic:

Of the 8 teams with the highest net points all 8 made the playoffs.
 
Another mediot.

San Francisco offensive efficiency #2
San Francisco defensive efficiency #1
San Francisco special teams defense #1

New England Patriots offensive efficiency #3
New Englant Patriots defensive efficiency #2
New England Special teams #2.

The reason why the 49ers have "the better defense" is only 5 interceptions from Alex.
Tom Brady has 12 interceptions.

Tom: 39 TD 12 INT or a 3.25 ratio.
Alex: 17TD 5 INT or a 3.4 ratio.
Brees: 46 TD 14 INT or a 3.28 ratio.

When you consider their running game that means if the 49ers get stretched they have by far the greater ability to outscore you.

Brees 4 TD - 2int
Smith 3TD - 0 int.

2 ints by Brees means the equivalent of 7 points. That's exactly what they got. They got 7 off his first pick. And they got a bunch more off of other turnovers. But they can also score with the rush and FG's.

People need to stop talking nonsense. Right now, by the numbers 49ers have the better offense, not just defense, with the more efficient quarterback. But he has not been tested.

The more efficient offense is 8-0 in the playoffs. Pats should be considered underdogs to the 49ers. In terms of efficiency Brady is an underdog this year to Smith. Experience wise that's their greatest advantage and so is their defense and coach.

We can see what happens to even the most efficient quarterback in the league, Aaron Rodgers. Smith is not careless, but he's not beyond pressure either.

It should be noted the Patriots are the only team to overcome a negative turnover margin and win in the playoffs and Tom Brady is the only quarterback to overcome an negative interception margin, and he's also the one that did it in the Super Bowl against the Panthers. But it was against the Broncos.

I wouldn't take that risk. Just cause a team doesn't have to score 40 points a game to win, or chooses not to, doesn't mean they don't have that ability if it comes down to it. And the 49ers are one of those teams, that not only can, but also have done it and outscored a top offense.

Broncos scored 38 points this year against the Raiders for crying out loud and put up 29 against the Steelers. When you have a less efficient offense and quarterback you make the other team a high scoring offense by default.
 
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Yes, the recent trend shows that defense wins championships. Drew Brees did absolutely nothing this past weekend and the 49ers totally shutdown the Saints holding them to a measley 472 yards and 32 points. Brees only threw for four TDs in that game. A complete defensive battle from start to finish. :rolleyes:

Fact of the matter is that the 49ers' OFFENSE was the unit that came through in the end and is the reason why the 49ers advanced. The biggest stars of that game were probably Goldson, Davis, and Smith (only one was on defense). If Alex Smith didn't match Brees in offensive explosiveness in the last five minutes of the game, the Saints would be playing this weekend and would be the odds on favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Also, even though the Giants slowed down the Packers' offense, there was something off about Rodgers and his receivers all game.

The only game that was won this past week primarily on defense was the Ravens/Texans game and that was in large part because there were two inept offenses on the field and lesser of two bad offenses won.
 
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I read that article, and two things jumped out at me.

1) He never bothered to mention that the Pats were 15th in his only defensive criteria, points against ... probably because it isn't really "lousy."

2) The Pats gave up 3.6 points/game less than the defensive juggernaut Giants.

Yeah, great reasoning. :rolleyes:.

Hey Fixit, get out of here with your facts. You're wrecking a dynamite theory.
 
That is why many here would prefer to play the 49ers. We don't particularly want to play against a top offense. We'd rather test our offense against the best defense in the nfl. I agree with that choice.

I'll go on record as being in this camp too. I want any opponent's strong point in Brady's hands, win or lose with him.
 
No you are the one ignoring Facts.

Fact: In terms of points, the Giants offense is ranked 9th, the defense is ranked 25th.

Fact: In terms of yards, the Giants offense is ranked 8th, the defense is ranked 27th.

Any way you slice it there are two teams (or half) that have a better offense than defense.

That is the FACT
I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played. Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now. Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career, but that didn't help the Giants until they started playing better D There has been a propensity on this board, this year, to declare that you don't need defense to win probably because early on until BB shook things up that the Pats didn't have much of one.
I know this is a Pats Fan(atic) board, i guess i shouldn't expect much in the way of Objective observation. I've seen what happens when anyone dares to try to question anything. But this season has been like a trip down the rabbit hole into Alice in Wonderland land. Don't need Defense, defense is worthless. Don't need balance on offense, we can just throw our way out of anything.

The bottom line is the Pats are the last of the Offensive jugernauts left. You can spin it anyway you want it. I'm not saying they can't win the SB, but it makes it much harder the odds are against them if their didn't get better. Got it....Kid
 
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I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play

Actually the title of the thread is "Only One Offense first NFL team Alive" which is false. I focused on the Giants because they negate the title.

Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played.

False. The offense score TDs both those games. See Gaints vs. Falcons for example of a defense shutting down an offense.

Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now.

This is not a fact. This is your opinion. Even if shared by many it is still an opinion. Please try to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career,

This is not a fact, once again it is an opinion.
I know this is a Pats Fan(atic) board, i guess i shouldn't expect much in the way of Objective observation.

Objective. I stated facts. Verifiable facts regarding actual numbers. You can't get any more objective than stating that NE has in fact given up less points per game than the Giants.

The bottom line is the Pats are the last of the Offensive jugernauts left.

NE has the best offense of any team left. But they do NOT have the worst defense of any team left. Nor are they the only team whose offense is better than their defense.
 
I'm sorry but this isn't about one team its about offense verses defense in general. I posted it because the Facts are only Two teams have won the SB predominately offense. You keep focusing on the Giants OK I'll Play Fact the Giants defense shut down TB and the Pats high powered offense the last two times they played. Fact the Giants are playing their best football Now. Fact Manning is having maybe the best year of his career, but that didn't help the Giants until they started playing better D There has been a propensity on this board, this year, to declare that you don't need defense to win probably because early on until BB shook things up that the Pats didn't have much of one.
I know this is a Pats Fan(atic) board, i guess i shouldn't expect much in the way of Objective observation. I've seen what happens when anyone dares to try to question anything. But this season has been like a trip down the rabbit hole into Alice in Wonderland land. Don't need Defense, defense is worthless. Don't need balance on offense, we can just throw our way out of anything.

The bottom line is the Pats are the last of the Offensive jugernauts left. You can spin it anyway you want it. I'm not saying they can't win the SB, but it makes it much harder the odds are against them Got it....Kid

The bottom line is you are playing the buffoon and it's only getting worse.

Quit while you are way behind.

Nobody here has ever said the defense isn't critical. Where most have issue is using a radom measurement like yards as the arcanum of measurement.

I don't care how many yards an opponent achieved once they were blown out. Yet that is the alpha and omega for the village idiots at patsfans.com.

Your problem is you are torturing every non reality to fit some non existent delusion.

SF surrendered 32 points and almost 500 yards. They also achieved two special teams turnovers Sorry, that's not defense. Why you insist it is beyond comprehension.

Baltimore and Houston produced a "defense first" winner. WOW somebody had to win so what else could be the outcome? Didn't New Orleans/Detroit PROVE offense first makes a winner?

This weekend proved one thing. It showed the ageless reality that turnovers and turnover differential are the important determination of football.

Just what most of us have been saying all year.
 
As it turns out, when it comes to being "offense-first," "defense-first," or more balanced, there's no 'secret sauce' to winning in the playoffs.

In an article for ESPN, Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders "took a look at what balance means for playoff performance for all playoff teams over the past 20 years. First, I figured out the average playoff record by playoff seed...

Then I went through each team and figured the difference between its actual playoff record and the playoff record expected from a team with the same playoff seed. There was no correlation between that number and how balanced or imbalanced a team was between offense and defense.
"

See, that's how you go about it when you're looking to actually find something out, rather than build an argument to support what you already think. 20 years with no correlation between offense-to-defense balance and improvement over a team's seed's average win% is pretty impossible to argue with. Offense-first, defense-first: it just doesn't matter.
 
As it turns out, when it comes to being "offense-first," "defense-first," or more balanced, there's no 'secret sauce' to winning in the playoffs.

In an article for ESPN, Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders "took a look at what balance means for playoff performance for all playoff teams over the past 20 years. First, I figured out the average playoff record by playoff seed...

Then I went through each team and figured the difference between its actual playoff record and the playoff record expected from a team with the same playoff seed. There was no correlation between that number and how balanced or imbalanced a team was between offense and defense.
"

See, that's how you go about it when you're looking to actually find something out, rather than build an argument to support what you already think. 20 years with no correlation between offense-to-defense balance and improvement over a team's seed's average win% is pretty impossible to argue with. Offense-first, defense-first: it just doesn't matter.

It just doesn't matter
 
Don't need balance on offense, we can just throw our way out of anything.

NE threw it 612 times and ran it 438 times (a whopping 21 attempts less than Baltimore).

Yep, all they did was sling it.

I almost forgot to add that the run-less Patriots averaged 21 more rushing yards/game than the thoroughly balanced Giants.
 
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That's because Aaron Shchwartz doesn't want to accept that yard per point does a better job at predicting anything he and his website ever came up with. He doesn't understand yards per point, and he admittedly had no clue what it was until 2 years AFTER he invented his DVOA ratings.

Then he backtracked and made a very weak argument against yards per point, explaining it backwards from a logical standpoint to try to prove DVOA is a better measurement. He used funny numbers such as drive stats adjusted for average defenses(adjusted for strength of opponent) and compared it to RAW yards per point efficiency stats, unadjusted for strength of opponent.

Offensive efficiency, yards per point, still came out ahead as the best predictor of winning ahead of offensive VOA, and only DVOA came out ahead of NET yard per point(which is a terrible way of doing it anyway) but that's because NET yard per point, was not adjusted for strength of opponent.

Not an objective argument and comparison.

Having said that, yard per point remains true. 8-0 The team with the overall more efficient offense who wins the turnover battle wins. The team with the best ability to outscore wins. The reason some teams like the 49ers offense are surprising is because they don't display their ability to score every single game. Just when its necessary. The way to win the turnover battle isn't defense, it's still your offense. The best way to win the turnover battle is to not throw an interception and face a team that does turn over the ball. Let them try to force a fumble, but don't give them away the ball.

And by efficiency standards:

SF's offense is #2 and their defense is #1
Pat's offense is #3 and Pats defense is #2.

The Patriots have a more efficient defense than they do an offense. The Patriots have the better defense than they do offense as of right now. As shocking as it might be to some people, it's just a fact.

To me seeing the Pats defense do what it did is not a surprise. The defense that spends the MOST time on the football field, that gives up the MOST yards, the LONGEST drives and yet FEWEST points is the best defense.

It goes against everything that ESPN, traditional stats and conventional wisdom says and conventional wisdom is simply wrong.

The best defense is NOT the one that gets off the field. It's the one that stays on the field, wants to be on the field, loves to hit and doesn't allow points. And that's the Patriots defense. Coach Bellichick knows this. The Patriots do have the ability to win the time of possession but they never do. Bottom of the league. They can easily take their time and score slow if they want to, but they do not.

What you want as a good defense, if you really want a good defense isn't a 3 and out:
-you want a physically tough defense with the longer endurance
-you want a physical defense who WANTS to be on the field physically beating up your opponent's offense for the longest of time while not allowing points and forcing fumbles
-the phrase "wearing down a defense" used to make sense when defensive players were big fat guys that were not in shape. Not anymore.
-you want those offenses on there so you can beat up on them for 60 yards and then keep them from scoring. It's what makes an offense inefficient and the most deflating thing possible.
-and with the #2 special teams defense you can do that, because opponent offenses start further back, and chances are good, you will get a stop before they make the endzone.

Did anybody see Tim Tebow's face after the game? That's what happens after you face a GOOD defense. The 49ers are not tested. They get 3 and outs, but they won't be able to against the Pats. They have not gone the distance and they showed weakness against the Saints. What you want is to break down their offense because usually the last one to score wins. So you want to have the sharpest, and healthiest offense, ready to go in the 4th quarter running that 2 minute drill.

And for the other 58 minutes you want your offense to score quickly and your defense out there to beat up on much smaller guys. The cool thing is NE's offense also have big physical guys. So they beat you up from both sides.
 
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That's because Aaron Shchwartz doesn't want to accept that yard per point does a better job at predicting anything he and his website ever came up with. He doesn't understand yards per point, and he admittedly had no clue what it was until 2 years AFTER he invented his DVOA ratings.

Then he backtracked and made a very weak argument against yards per point, explaining it backwards from a logical standpoint to try to prove DVOA is a better measurement. He used funny numbers such as drive stats adjusted for average defenses(adjusted for strength of opponent) and compared it to RAW yards per point efficiency stats, unadjusted for strength of opponent.

Offensive efficiency, yards per point, still came out ahead as the best predictor of winning ahead of offensive VOA, and only DVOA came out ahead of NET yard per point(which is a terrible way of doing it anyway) but that's because NET yard per point, was not adjusted for strength of opponent.

Not an objective argument and comparison.

Having said that, yard per point remains true. 8-0 The team with the overall more efficient offense who wins the turnover battle wins. The way to win the turnover battle isn't defense, it's still your offense. The best way to win the turnover battle is to not throw an interception.

Let them try to force a fumble, but don't give them away the ball.

And by efficiency standards:

SF's offense is #2 and their defense is #1
Pat's offense is #3 and Pats defense is #2.

The Patriots have a more efficient defense than they do an offense. The Patriots have the better defense than they do offense as of right now. As shocking as it might be to some people, it's just a fact.

To me seeing the Pats defense do what it did is not a surprise. The defense that spends the MOST time on the football field, that gives up the MOST yards, the LONGEST drives and yet FEWEST points is the best defense.

It goes against everything that ESPN, traditional stats and conventional wisdom says and conventional wisdom is simply wrong.

The best defense is NOT the one that gets off the field. It's the one that stays on the field, wants to be on the field, loves to hit and doesn't allow points. And that's the Patriots defense. Coach Bellichick knows this. The Patriots do have the ability to win the time of possession but they never do. Bottom of the league. They can easily take their time and score slow if they want to, but they do not.

What you want as a good defense, if you really want a good defense isn't a 3 and out:
-you want a physically tough defense with the longer endurance
-you want a physical defense who WANTS to be on the field physically beating up your opponent's offense for the longest of time while not allowing points and forcing fumbles
-the phrase "wearing down a defense" used to make sense when defensive players were big fat guys that were not in shape. Not anymore.
-you want those offenses on there so you can beat up on them for 60 yards and then keep them from scoring. It's what makes an offense inefficient and the most deflating thing possible.
-and with the #2 special teams defense you can do that, because opponent offenses start further back, and chances are good, you will get a stop before they make the endzone.

Did anybody see Tim Tebow's face after the game? That's what happens after you face a GOOD defense. The 49ers are not tested. They get 3 and outs, but they won't be able to against the Pats. They have not gone the distance and they showed weakness against the Saints. What you want is to break down their offense because usually the last one to score wins. So you want to have the sharpest, and healthiest offense, ready to go in the 4th quarter running that 2 minute drill.

And for the other 58 minutes you want your offense to score quickly and your defense out there to beat up on much smaller guys. The cool thing is NE's offense also have big physical guys. So they beat you up from both sides.

Please stop. For one thing, you've posted a lot on this topic without offering links and verification, and your claims about the Patriots defense are simply unbelievable. Even more importantly, though, my post was just a way to get a Meatballs clip into the thread.
 
I still don't get "I told you that Defense wins Championships" crowd. They act like it is a forgone conclusion that the Pats are going to lose either this week or in the Super Bowl. These are the same guys who said this team was one and done because of their defense.

Fact of the matter is if the Pats and Giants win this weekend, there will be no team that was defense first in the regular season left alive in the Super Bowl. If the Pats and 49ers win, there will be one team that is defense first and one team that is offense first. If one of these scenarios happen, then what will these people use to complain about the defense.

It Pats have an one and four chance of winning the Super Bowl. Based on how the Ravens played last week and how the Pats seem to be hitting on all cylindars right now, I like the Pats' chances of getting to the Super Bowl. If the Pats get into the Super Bowl and even if they lose, I don't think you can argue their strategy was any worse than any defense first team.

I think the people who have been complaining about this defense and been waiting all year to tell us that "I told you this defense was so bad that the Pats would go one and done" are just trying to grasp at straws.
 
Please stop. For one thing, you've posted a lot on this topic without offering links and verification, and your claims about the Patriots defense are simply unbelievable. Even more importantly, though, my post was just a way to get a Meatballs clip into the thread.

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opp Yards per Point on TeamRankings.com

#2 in the NFL.

Special teams defense #2. Special teams offense #9
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 DRIVE STATS

Patriots offense:

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Yards per Point on TeamRankings.com

#3


The other stat? In 14 games played this season the Patriots defense allowed less points than their opponents defense. You can get swayed all you want about your silly yards. But nothing tops those two.

They have, in reality, in real life, allowed less points than 3 other defenses they have faced. In 2 of those games that they allowed more points the offense turned over the ball 4 times. If you have any kind of football sense you will understand the importance of turnovers, and what a turnover does to a defense.

The only game this defense lost and got shown off, was Pittsburg. Aside from that this defense was the better defense all season long.

Nothing is more important than results. And if you want to predict, than you use the stat that does it best. And the stat that does it best is that I told you about: yard per point. If you don't like that, measure them against common opponents and winning teams.

You are still better off than looking at any kind of ******ed yard stat, or total stat, from NFL.com to try and judge the quality of your team's offense or defense. They are vacuum stats. Unlike those yards per point isn't one. Vacuum stats are useless in true comparisons or true rankings. They should only be used as a tool to get to the true evaluations for the teams.
 
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Of the remaining teams, the point differentials are:

NE +171
SF +151
Bal + 112
NYG -6

I'd say those first three are more "balanced" than the last one.

Oh, and every team has injuries. The Pats were starting WR's at CB and Safety for Pete's sake!

Interestingly, the two top teams in Pt Diff (NO and GB) are out.

Still, you gotta play the games. Last time the NYG were in it they were +22 in Pt Differential and we were +1,576,346 and we still lost so maybe a pass rush is all that is needed. Any given Sunday, I guess.
 
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