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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by reflexblue, Jan 17, 2012.

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  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Myself and others have been pointing this out, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I hope TB and the Pats can pull this off, they are the last of the high powered offense limited defense teams left, the three others SF NYG and Ravens are all defensive minded, although the Pats defense Has gotten better.


    Joe Posnanski » Posts Offense First «


    History does not favor a Super Bowl win for Tom Brady and the Patriots. (AP)

    The New England Patriots are trying to do something that, best I can tell, has never been done in NFL history. They are trying to become the first outdoor team to win a Super Bowl with a great offense and a lousy defense, at least by the statistics. I have no idea if they can pull it off.

    In looking back through the Super Bowl years, it seems that only two teams — the 2009 Saints and the 2006 Colts — have won a Super Bowl with a statistically great offense and a statistically lousy defense. I’ll use points scored and points allowed as a simple barometer for offense and defense*.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  2. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    I read that article, and two things jumped out at me.

    1) He never bothered to mention that the Pats were 15th in his only defensive criteria, points against ... probably because it isn't really "lousy."

    2) The Pats gave up 3.6 points/game less than the defensive juggernaut Giants.

    Yeah, great reasoning. :rolleyes:.
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    The giants defense has only been coming on lately, that being said its a Fact that the pats are the Only offense first team left. You can't dismiss that.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  4. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    the niners pulled it off with offense......299 yards from alex smith is what saved them

    the giants pulled it off with offense....

    the ravens pulled off because of TJ yates

    at this point, the only matchup that troubles me is the niners
  5. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    In terms of points.

    Giants offense is ranked 9th.

    Defense is ranked 25th.

    How is that not an offense first team?
  6. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    the only reason the giants are in the playoffs is that they got to play mark sanchez
  7. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    NFL.com has the Giants defense ranked 27th.
    29th in passing defense
    19th in rushing defense
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Weak REAL WEAK. I seem to remember SF D getting three turnovers? and NO having a Weak defense but Rationalize away. The Giants shut down the Vaunted GB Offense. The Ravens D forced Yates into three turnovers and shut him down.
    I'm going to the gym i don't have time to argue with people over something as obvious as this

    Rationalize Away
  9. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    the 9ers needed 33 points to win.....they gave up 32.....ergo, they won because of offense CASE CLOSED

    your point is the weak one......it is about as strong as the argument that the pats have not beaten a winning team
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know what offense first means, but the Giants have won more on offense than on defense.
  11. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    No you are the one ignoring Facts.

    Fact: In terms of points, the Giants offense is ranked 9th, the defense is ranked 25th.

    Fact: In terms of yards, the Giants offense is ranked 8th, the defense is ranked 27th.

    Any way you slice it there are two teams (or half) that have a better offense than defense.

    That is the FACT
  12. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    They are. I'm not sure why people don't think the Giants are an elite offense. Eli was the 4th ranked QB in the league. If the Packers, Saints, and Patriots are the top 3 passing offenses then the Giants are 4th.
  13. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    How is it possible for a journalist to be this bad?

    so i was reading an article:

    Joe Posnanski » Posts Offense First «

    out of curiosity....the article forgets to mention what we ranked as PA this past year

    if it is about 16th, which is what my memory tells me....his argument is bankrupt
  14. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I have to give Posnanski credit for one thing: at least he's ranking offenses and defenses by points scored and points allowed rather than yardage.

    However, when he proceeds to exclude teams that played their home games in a dome so that he can say it's never been done before, it comes across to me as if he's grasping at straws to make a point.

    And as others have pointed out, although the Giants have a reputation for being an 'old school' (i.e., strong defense, strong running game), their numbers do paint a different picture this year. It's similar to how many still consider the Steelers to be a run-oriented offense when that has not been the case for a while; reputation overrides facts.


    One takeaway I did have from the article is when he started going through the historical passing numbers, and comparing them to this year's passing numbers. The fact is that the current game of football is distinctly different than it was twenty years ago. Since that is the case, then doesn't that make comparisons to the formula winning teams used back then irrelevant?

    I understand that it's a much smaller sample size, but to me the only accurate comparisons for today's football teams would be no further back than the post-2004(?) teams when Bill Polian had his rules committee instruct NFL referees to change the way penalties were called on the defense. If you look at what teams were successful in that time period my guess is that you'll find a much greater percentage of 'offense first' teams.
  15. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    Not sure what the controversy is all about. If you polled the remaining 4 teams fan bases and made them choose only one of the following statements:

    As the offense goes this team goes, or
    As the defense goes this team goes

    The overwhelming majority of the Giants, 49ers and Ravens fans would choose the 2nd option. Patriots fans would choose the first option.

    Another annoying trend from certain posters is that the Giants aren't an elite defense. In this watered down (from a defensive standpoint) NFL, there are few defenses as tough as the Giants defense when they are relatively healthy and firing on all cylinders. Tuck has played but been severly limited all year. He has stated - he has stated - that he has finally started to return to form & Osi Umenyiora is back. Not sure why anyone would belittle the exploits of a pass rush that includes a healthy Tuck, a returning Osi Umenyiora, and the monster Jason Pierre-Paul.

    I will say the gap between defense and offense is least with the Giants, followed by the 49ers, then take your pick.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  16. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Re: How is it possible for a journalist to be this bad?

    Thanks for the link. Gave me something to read on the toilet. Weird piece of writing; regurgitates a lot of info but doesn't actually seem to reach any conclusions.
  17. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I noticed the same thing about that article.

    Also, the Pats defense has been improving, so this whole "lousy defense" mantra is a bit overplayed IMO.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Giants and Patriots are offense first teams

    Ravens and 49ers are defense first teams


    It's 2-2, and 1-1 in each conference championship game.
  19. NYCPatsFan

    NYCPatsFan Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    I actually like it that we are potrayed as a lousy defense; hope the Ravens also believe the same and experience a rude shock. :)
  20. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Yeah i hope Kyle Love gives Joe Flacco our Love.:kiss2:
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