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Only $400,000 left after ‘I feed my family’

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Q: “With all due respect, The Wall Street Journal estimated that your businesses, which I believe are Subway sandwich shops and UPS stores — very successful — brought you last year, over $6 million,”

    A: “Yeah, that’s before you pay 500 employees, you pay rent, you pay equipment and food,” Fleming agreed. “Since my net income — and again, that’s the individual rate that I told you about — the amount that I have to reinvest in my business and feed my family is more like $600,000 of that $6.3 million. And so by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over to invest in new locations, upgrade my locations, buy more equipment.”





    For those on this board as concerned as I am for LA Representative John Fleming. You can send $$ to him here :

    John Fleming for U.S. Congress

    Lets all hold hands and pray that he and his family can survive with the remaining $400,000 per year.
  2. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    I feel so bad for him, only 400k how dose he sleep at night? I wonder if he cries,I wonder if he wakes up in the middle of the night screaming, poor thing....


    I think we should all start a fund for him and other millionaires, well call it the "FEED MY RICH ASS FAMILY FUND" We should never let our rich starve, 400k is way too low to live on.....I made 26k last year **** me.....that's before taxes and before bill/food. I had about 5k left over.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  3. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Maybe you should work smarter and harder. That's the beauty of America... you can.
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    That's probably one of the most mean-spirited comments I've read here in a long time.....and that's saying alot.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Those comments aren't fair.

    The person who asked the question was very far off in their claim re what he made. There is a vast difference between making $6mm in a year and $400k. What's wrong with him correcting their error?

    (It's also a stupid error, assuming of course all of this is accurate. Trying to ascribe the revenue of a person's business(es) to them as income demonstrates either poor factchecking or a fundamental misunderstanding of how businesses work.)
  6. PatriotsReign

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    And if the info is accurate $400k - $600k annually isn't super wealthy. It's damn good money, especially for a state representative. But even then, LA citizens only have themselves to blame for voting him in.
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's talking about making 200k and investing 400k into his businesses.

    What's the problem?
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    guess some people think anyone who makes a lot of money is "on the other side" IcyPat. It's as if they think no one deserves to make $400k or even $1MM annually without being suspicious of them somehow.

    BTW...heard Bill O'Reilly say he believes he should pay 50% of his earnings in taxes...says he thinks that's fair. As long as he doesn't try to include me in that bs, I'm fine with it.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  9. chicowalker

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    Yes -- it's good money, particularly, I would think, given cost of living in Louisiana. (Were LA Los Angeles, $400k isn't quite as luxurious... :) though still quite comfortable, certainly)

    $6mm per year, on the other hand, makes you wealthy anywhere, especially if you have several years like that in a row (and, since he owns those franchises, he is also building wealth through their value, which as we are discussing in the other thread, will be taxed at capital gains rates when he eventually sells them)
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    Really?

    That's interesting & surprising to me.

    PFnV
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    This dudes net worth is about 16 million.

    He is talking about take home pay of 400k after he feeds his family. I live in a pretty expensive county, if I was taking home 400k AFTER my family was fed, I'd say I'm doing frickin amazingly incredible.

    The fact that he considers this to be a puny take home is disgusting. Its not even about taxation. I couldnt thing of a better way to say "fukc you" to poor people than what this tool just said.
  12. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    I could work you under the table and a lot of other people for that matter, and I'm probably smarter then you too and a lot of other people for that matter but with that said and like I always have said on this board, my intentions in life are not to make a ton of money, see I know that it will never get people to love me or make me love myself and it won't get me into heaven so why do I need it?

    I only make enough to live and pay my mortgage and I'm ok with that, I don't want a big house or a nice car, those things are just dirt. I don't want to join the rat race like the others, I don't want to be greedy and a slimeball, I don't want to have to look in the mirror and see someone who cares more about money then people.

    You must have American confused with the rest of the world, the beauty of America is not that you can make a ton of money and live like the fresh prince, the beauty is that we are free, free to choose and free to think.

    You like a lot of other people only think of what you have rather then what you give, that makes you and the others more pathetic then my poor ass will ever be.;) I may not have money but I have love and understanding.....Rest assured too, that if I wanted to be rich I could......I choose not to!

    I never said he didn't deserve to make money or anyone for that matter, all I'm saying is 400k is a ton of money and to ***** about taxes is a joke. Makes you look out of touch with the rest of the world and reality.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  13. IcyPatriot

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    I must be reading it wrong. To me he is saying he has 400K to reinvest and/or find other opportunities if he was to use cash profits. If his taxes go up he has less than that to invest. Had he left out the feed my family line I think it would have come out better.

    As for not having more of the 400K tax well I am on record here in saying everyone should pay a bit more and everyone should have a bit cut from them - we are all in this together. If our leaders cannot find common ground then I say we vote every last one of them out.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Presumably O'Reilly's earning a bit more than you :)
  15. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    where does he say it's puny?

    As I said in my first post, from what you posted to start the thread, the person asking the question stated something that was wrong, and very far off. I don't understand how you can have a problem with the guy correcting that very significant mistake, or how you would take it as a "f*ck you."

    (If he came out on his own and started talking about "only" making $400k, I'd agree with you -- but that's not the context that was posted.)
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If O'Reilly feels this way he should just write a check for what the extra he thinks he should pay.


    So the guy generates 6 mill a lot of which goes to empolyee salaries, spends 200k on his family and reinvest the other 400k (BTW 600K on revenues of 6M is only 10% ROI) and he is a bad guy?


    Wow.

    The critics I am guessing don't fire anyone else or help them earn a living......
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    Noooo, you got it right Icy.

    After 200K (after taxes I take it) that he needs to maintain his lifestyle, he has only 400K to reinvest in the company. The claim is that his stores gross -- not net -- on the order of 6 million per annum, and he complains that he brings home 200K (what he pays himself,) and puts 400K back into the company.

    So if I understand his claim, he makes a 10% profit on his franchises after everything having to do with the businesses is accounted for.

    It sounds like a pretty decent deal to me.

    Now let's say his personal take-home pay declines, and we'll take a nominal percentage rate of 10% (no relation to the 10% above) to think about the impact.

    Since we are talking about what he pays himself, he has three choices:

    1) He and his family can live on $180 K a year, but nobody wants their income to decline.

    2) He can invest only $380K in recapitalizing his business, something I don't think is a wise move, nor the move I would make were I in his shoes, or

    3) He can seek a way for his shops to bring in, all told, $6,020,000 instead of $6,000,000.

    In other words, since we are talking about taxing his personal income, not his business' income, we are talking about decimal dust, by comparison, even if his personal tax rate went up 10% (and I simplified by applying it to his entire income rather than to the marginal part that would be affected.)

    Additionally, in his particular case, he is saying he pays himself $200K per annum. I do not know whether the proposed rule looks at assets or at income (the usual form of American taxation.) If it's on income, the latest proposal doesn't even touch him. He's not rich enough.

    PFnV
  18. patsfan13

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    Of course if business declines (people having less disposable income for example that 600k can turn into $0, and his family lives off their savings for that year, see he isn't guaranteed to 600k profit.....


    He is the one taking the risk..


    IMO government employees should also pay the highest tax rate after all since the 'rich' pays most taxes they are paying the salary for the government employees, isn't it fair that they should pay the same rates as the people who are funding them?

    Then when they carp for higher taxes they would have a few shreds of credibility. It is always easy for the greedy to see why the other guy should pay more but not them.
  19. PatsFanInVa

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    LMAO 13, thattaboy, find a middle-class worker you hate and advocate he pay for the people you think, somehow, matter to you -- the "job creators" who live like you never have, and never will, and laugh at you at parties.

    Good boy!

    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  20. chicowalker

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    I guess anybody who, say, favors armed interventions abroad should just sign up and fight themselves, huh?
  21. Real World

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    A 10% ROI is not anthing spectacular if he's in an operational business, and especially if he's in one that is food or service related. Lots of ups, downs, and ever changing costs of doing business in those fields. If that 10% is also the basis used f\for expansion, or improvements, then it's really not spectacular at all. This man isn't dropping a hard sum of capital into a fund, and relaxing at home as it acrues interest. He's running and operating a functional business(es). This thread is a true example of the fail that is people who don't understand business, trying to opine about them.
  22. Ilikehappyppl

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    That's if he telling us the truth about his finances, you should take everything with a grain of salt......There's prob some stuff he's not telling us about.

    Remember he never said he made 6 million a year, that's what the wall street journal said they thought he made.....He prob makes more then that....;)

    I hear people in congress are honest? Confirm or Deny? Something doesn't add up, if he's only taking home 200k a year and reinvesting 400k then why is his net worth 16 million ?
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2011
  23. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey
    By continually investing his excess income he can control what tax bracket he stays in. He is always working the depreciation of his equipment and business property on his tax returns. This is how the system is supposed to work and he is a good example of the system working actually if this is the case. If and when he sells it he then gets charged huge capital gains taxes so it's not like he will never pay it's just that he will delay when he will pay. The capitol gains taxes are what the business is worth minus loans and money owed - this amount is taxed lump sum. If he takes that money and invests it elsewhere in the same corporation he only pays capitol gains on the difference if the new investment is cheaper than the sold investment.

    The people who are the problem are the high wage earners who are earning off of investment income, who do not reinvest that money and actually pay less income on it than someone who physically worked for it.

    I have stated this before the business tax breaks need to be made for the people who invest in their businesses in this country and who employ in this country. Those farming their work overseas should pay higher taxes. Now that will mean less dividends for some here but whatever it cannot always be a win-win all the time. Obama promised this while campaigning and I hope he still gets a chance to do it.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2011
  24. PatsFanInVa

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    Yeah of course. Nobody understands business except reflexive spouters of some idiotic pablum about the poor getting a free ride, people taking home 200K (by their reckoning) being strapped for cash, 10% returns per annum being a terrible return on investment, etc. etc. etc.

    Okay let's take your word for it. This guy is bad at Subway Sandwich shop management I guess. Other such businesses should be producing 20% ROI or 50% ROI, year in and year out, he's a total failure despite having 400K to recapitalize or hire, and despite taking home 200K. Everybody else does much better, and you know this because you're a right-winger and therefore know everything there is to know about business.

    So, since this is the benighted estate of a bad sandwich shop owner, or perhaps a sandwich shop owner still feeling the effects of the recession -- it seems abundantly clear that there's no leg to stand on for those who opine, despite their vast knowledge, that the biggest problem is poor guys owning refrigerators.

    Perhaps he's just at he outset of his fast food empire. Welp, if he wants to grow the business, he does have 400K per annum to plow back into his terribly stunted investment. Sounds like a better return than he's likely to get in lots of other markets. It is, after all, an investment.

    So the choices remain -

    1) Pay yourself 180K, and nobody wants to do that
    2) Only plow 380K back into the business, but that wouldn't be very good for growth, or
    3) Grow the business by 20,000 on a $6 million base.

    But wait a minute... if he's plowing 400 K into it, and you get a (paltry) 10% return on that, wouldn't he get 40K that way, on average?

    Problem solved!

    As stated, O distillation of Wharton incarnate, this owner's problem, in the simplified example, is to replace 20K additional personal income. While that's 10% of what he claims to pay himself, it is a third of one percent of what his business makes. I don't think that will cast a pall on the local economy.

    And if we're talking about the personal tax question, once again, he's below the bar -- so the example would remain hypothetical. But maybe when you add in other sources of income, he'd be affected.

    PFnV
  25. PatsFanInVa

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    And this is precisely why the current proposal would not affect this guy, if he's being honest about his finances. It also clarifies that higher capital gains would not chill investment; it would make it harder to cash out - but that means the capital gains need to apply to all asset classes.

    Good post by the way.
  26. mcgraw_wv

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    Maybe I'm losng my ability to read and comprehend but the quote suggests that "I have maybe $400,000 left over to invest in new locations, upgrade my locations, buy more equipment."

    Equipment, and locations are expensive.

    Why the dramatic mis-quote for a thread title? In business you need to re-invest in your business to keep it viable, and he's saying at the end of the year he only has 400k to try and make a profit for his family and ensure his locations are kept up and upgraded to continue business.

    So many of you are so anti business, it's worrisome... Who's going to provide you a job when you make it impossible to earn a living by being an owner?
  27. sdaniels7114

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    If things are so bad for him why is he trying to take on a whole other job? Being a Congressman isn't exactly something you can do on the weekends.
  28. PatsFanInVa

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    Yes they are expensive.

    It is also "expensive" for the rank and file guy to put 15K per year into a 401(k) account.

    Both are investing. The business owner is putting his faith in his business. The 401(k) investor is putting his faith in a broad basket of equities and/or bonds.

    He is not putting money back into his business as a favor to you and me. He is putting money back into his business because the business is likely to result in more money later.

    Now, that's not to say we don't want him to do it. Of course we do. He will hire people at those new locations. Just like the 401(k) investor is capitalizing markets, and that money makes possible other hiring.

    All of this is about the supply side, however. The issue we have is that demand is low, and that unemployment is high. Everybody has retooled. They're not hiring until they need to. Good for him, if he sees the need to hire. It means the president's handling of the economy is going well enough to at least get sandwich making jobs online.

    However, someone has to buy the sandwiches. Newly unemployed teachers, firefighters, and cops won't, not in the same numbers. People w/their unemployment benefits cut off entirely sure won't. Broke people won't.

    PFnV
  29. khayos

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    How... the poster makes evident what their income is and desires more... they have the opportunity to increase it?
  30. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Listen, you're the one who drew up your salary as a comparison. If you didn't want your salary entered into the discussion, you shouldn't have brought it up. You tried to make a point and are now running away from it -- I'm sure you're happy and smart and all that. But don't bring up your own circumstances to make a point and not have the testicular fortitude to back it up.

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