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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    It is mind-boggling to me how slimey the recent HR4411: Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (i.e., Poker is Evil Bill) really is. Another "faith-based" initiative by the repression party, while they receive a nice cashout of their own from Vegas. They couldn't present the measure on its own merit, but instead had to sneak it in quietly under other, completely unrelated legislation...

    Anyhow, some new details behind the sneaky piece of legislation I thought would be nice to share from a recent article in All-In magazine:

    Facts:

    - Bill Frist, the Senator behind the weaseld!ck legislation, has accepted funds from Harrah's, including $19,250 in 2000. Somehow, gambling isn't "wrong and immoral" when apparent bribes are involved.

    - Harrah's, after the bill was passed, saw a major increase in their company value -- some $1.7 billion. It's beyond clear that Vegas casinos don't want people playing poker at home.

    - The main legislation this crap snuck in underneath -- the ports security bill -- like a pilot fish, was actually DELAYED several months so that Frist could hide the gaming bill with it. Nice, huh? America's security takes a back seat to stopping the horrible threat of playing poker in one's underwear.

    - The bill passed at midnight the day Congress adjourned before the 2006 elections. Prior to it being added to the bill, the gambling provisions had not been debated by any Congressional committee.

    - Other, much more addictive forms of gambling remain readily available to the public: Scratch tickets, horse racing, etc.

    - In September 2005, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, named Frist as one of the thirteen most "corrupt" members of Congress, and filed a complaint with the Senate Ethics Committee calling for an investigation of his stock sale at Hospital Corp. of America, an alleged cover-up, and an allegedly mishandled disclosure of a campaign loan.



    Unfortunately for the repression party, playing Jesus for votes didn't work out so well in November, soon after the "Poker Evil" Bill got its no-look pass. So, while the rest of the western world laughs at us and our supposed "freedom", prohibition reins anew here in the good ole' USA.

    Speaking of prohibition, ... worked out well in the past, eh?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Speaking of "off-shoring", you do know that most online poker revenues end up going out the U.S., don't you??


    //
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Quintio el soranio garsani solidio, el solidio bootanio golkien blaspor?
    :bricks:
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I played last night on Pokerstars. They still take US money. Visa, Mastercard, or a cashiers check (like doing an epay direct from your checking account. I lost $5 last night. :(

    As for the bill, they both suck. The bill itself stinks, and the Bill, Bill Frist, is a loser of monumental porportions. I saw him on TV once say something stupid like "there's no more fat to trim off this budget" when it was the biggest budget in US history. Typical politician loser fraud. This should open your eyes to how bad politics is as a whole. Someone posted something in here the other day about the GOP not caring about security because they wouldn't pass a bill. Well, the problem was the ear marks attached about unions. Politicians always do this on both sides of the isle. They add irrelevent, politcal BS to bills so as to satisfy their personal politics. Typical DC. Anyways, I think gambling should be legal, and that the only reason why it isn't is because of stupidity, and state monopolies. The state monopolies like the MASS Lottery.
  5. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    That's why they should legalize it but bring in a tax revenue from all the sites that want to do business in the US. Also they could make regulations so that they could monitor the movement of funds which was the excuse for tying this into the port bill.

    If Frist and his pals have their way we will have no civil liberties and going to church on Sunday will be a national requirement.

    Yes I play online poker and I hate him.
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Just remember though, gambling is, and has been, illegal. I don't like the bill at all either.


    Everlong, what sites do you play on? I play on Bodog and Pokerstars. I'm of the mind that the decks are not always random. Do you think the play is 100% legit? It's always come accross to me as being geared a tad toward the extreme, meaning too many 4 of a kinds, full houses, etc... than is normal.
  7. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    I used to play on about 8 different sites but with all the new regulations I've consolidated to just Poker Stars and Full Tilt.

    There are times when I'm running bad and I question it but then I watch the wsop and I see people hit the same draws just playing cluelessly. I was re-watching some of the 05 and watched Jen Harman lose with the nut full boat to a straight flush on the river. Then I was watching the 06 and in a span of about 5 minutes 4 different under pairs hit sets vs over pairs allin before the flop.

    It just happens. Cruel game at times.

    The other thing is, what's the upside for the sites to rig it? People will say to drive up the rake but the downside of getting caught out-weighs that heavily. Once a site gets caught with something like that they are screwed, probably everybody else too, guilt by association.
  8. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    This bill (actually it was an amendment to a bill that, IIRC, involved Katrina relief funds to New Orleans) is another example of a Republican betraying his conservative base (something which happens all too frequently these days). For me, it has been a bit of a nuisance since some of the more well-known online MoneyTellers and websites stopped dealing with U.S. customers, but there are definitely ways of getting around it. I currently use Full Tilt Poker and have been using ePassporte.com to send funds. ePassporte.com is reliable but they take FOREVER to upload and download funds to your bank account.
  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I got into a big argument on this very subject about a month ago in one of the other rooms here. My contention is that the play is not fixed because there's just too much risk and no real reward for a website to fix a game.

    Where's the motivation in PartyPoker "fixing" a game so that a certain guy wins..? Unless you think that the guy who is winning is really just a shill employee working for the casino, I just don't see how the casino would profit by fixing a game. They might marginally increase their rake but the risk would be tremendous; any online poker site caught fixing a game would go out of business overnight.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I play alot of 6 player tables on Pokerstars amd I have to say that there are far too many 4 of a kinds, full houses, or 8,9 offsuits beating pockets aces. Way too many pocket 6's beating kings, and too many pockets facing up altogether. Obviously I have no statistical data to prove it, but having played in so many legitimate, in person tournaments as I have, at 10 player tables none the less, it just seems to be far too common than could be real. I hope I'm wrong, and obviously, if they've geared the decks to run this way, it is still that way for everyone. By having more bad beats, you make even the worse players prone to win more, which means they'll keep on playing. Smarter players will loose a tad more, but they're not the worry as their ability will mean not winning as much. At any rate, most of my buds who play have come to feel the same way.

    Of note, and totally heresay, a friend of mine I play in a regular tourny with told me, again, heresay urban legend type story, so take it for what it's worth, that he has a buddy who runs a hotel casino in the Neatherlands. He said a company came to them to offer computer poker terminals at a guaranteed $15k a night (or whatever total), with said company keeping the rest. The guy explained that there were dumby computer player(s) at the table which guaranteed them a profit. Again, heresay, urban legend type stuff, but you can see where it is plausible.
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Pokerstars won't take NetTeller anymore, and some other pacifier, might even be that e-one you mentioned. Worst case, you can always mail them a check and wait till it processes. I don't play for much because I play so much locally. I only do it to pass some time, or to satisfy and itch. Online play is way to rag for my liking. People play ridiculously and get rewarded far too often. I've never seen over pockets get rocked so much in my life. Idiots with 8,9 offsuit, 4,5 offsuit, or 6,9 offsuit flopping full houses. It's just to ridiculous to like, take seriously, or be for real. IMO anyway.
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    a player remembers his bad beats much more vividly than his suckouts or well-played draws to victory... while there are a lot of dumb players who hit garbage on the river online, it seems juiced merely because the action is moving so fast, and the inevitable bad beats stick in your mind... as someone here mentioned, there is no reason for an online casino to "juice the deck" that way, as they're already making money hand-over-fist...

    plus, if you're playing low- and micro-level tables (especially limit play), you're going to be surrounded by horrible players who are going to draw to the river... go up and play with the big boys at, say $5-$10 or higher, and you won't see people sticking around with 10-2 offsuit... at low levels, people are dumb, and sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut... however, if you just play your game and stick with premium hands and play defensively, those people will eventually bust out, and you'll slowly grow your bankroll... you shouldn't be playing anymore than 20-25% of hands, tops, which i'm sure most of you are aware...

    ANYHOW, anyone find it curious that Frist pulled his name from the '08 race soon after the midterms and soon after his petty legislation passed through?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I don't think that they "fix" the game in that way. I don't think they tilt it toward player X over player Y specifically. What I think they do, and I'm not alone in this, is tinker with the program so that it makes for more hands, as opposed to no hands. Basically, they make it almost like cut deck, where hands are likely to exist. More 4 of a kinds, straights, flushes, trips, etc... Again, I play in alot of local tourny's, 10 player tables, etc, and it just seems so non random online. 6 player tables should never have so many hands so often. It's not as noticable on a 9 or 10 player tables for obvious reasons. Furthermore, what people don't know is that watching the world series of poker on TV, or all the other shows, is that they are not showing every hand, they are only showing select hands. When you see pockets 2's beating Aces on TV, it's because they chose to show that. Fox sports, or whatever channel has that "Best Damn Sports Show", has been showing live poker, and you get to see how often people have no hand at all.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Frist pulled his name cuz he's a hack, and he knew he never had a chance. He's a joke.

    I never play limit poker. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................. Limit poker blows, no limit is the only game in town.

    See, I think online casino's have a stake in programing the decks. They don't want high risk, zero clue players to never win. Those types of people pay them the most money. If clueless loses as he should, he will eventually lose to the point of no return. No return means losing said client who pays in half his paycheck each week. Good players will always make money or break even. They have a higher likelyhood of staying with some consistency. A good player won't call a big raise, or out of position, with pocket 6's per say, whereas a Joe Clueless will call with that or worse everytime. If the loser hand doesn't win enough times, then that guy will go broke. That's where I think it's tilted. It's tilted in the sense that Aces will hold 80% of the time in real life, and only 60% online.

    Here's an example of why I feel this way, and again, I could be totally wrong. I play in a $65 bi-weekly tourny. There's usually about 50-70 people who play. After 10-20 people get knocked out, they start $1,$2 cash on the side tables. Last time there were a couple of new guys who lost early, and played the cash. I got knocked out late, and joined the cash game late. Anyway, these two guys sat next to me (cash game) and were awful. They must have lost $100-200 apiece playing cash. They called every raise, even if they were the 3rd or 4th to call, just cuz they had an Ace. Totally gross players. Pocket 2's and a $10 raise, with a reraise to follow, they called. They always lost as they should have. Online, these guys don't get lucky the 11% like they should, they get lucky at 25-30%. Why? To keep them coming back. If those two jokers beside me did that every 2 weeks, they'd be broke and would have to stop playing.
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    God Bless God
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    LOL!


    Harry, is that you in your Avatar?

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