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One Way Parcells Was Better Than Belichick

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by aluminum seats, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Injuries. Maybe it's luck of the draw (and obviously is to a certain extent) and maybe I'm relying on a faulty memory, but it seems to me that consistently over the years wherever Parcells went a common theme was an empty injury report. Even this past year in Dallas--when I think most would agree Parcells had sort of lost it as a coach--I remember looking at the injury report in the paper and there was none listed.

    What conditioning coach(es)/programs did Parcells use? Was it different that what Belichick does? Seems that over the last few years it's been such a huge problem for the Pats. One game last year I actually realized my enjoyment of the game was being hampered by the fact that I was EXPECTING an injury to occur. With so much talk right now of the Pats FA pickups, I notice a recurring theme of "if we stay healthy" how dominant the Pats will be. That's always the case, of course, but I don't think I'm alone that the threat of injuries just seems too great now. And I'm not sure why.
     
  2. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    Parcells notoriously doesn't even want to hear about players' injuries.

    I am kind of glad that you brought this up, though, because I have a theory. I think that NE is more cautious with some injuries than others. Ted Johnson's claim flies in the face of this, but I think that NE is more willing to sit a guy down than many other teams. This is a large reason why they value depth so much; not because injuries are going to happen, but because they don't want a reason to "have" to play a guy. By getting healing time, that also tees the team up to be healthier than most in the playoffs.
     
  3. Major **********

    Major ********** Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    We use the same conditioning coach as the early 90's Cowboy teams I think. Does anyone remember how those teams did in regards to injurie woes. I don't know who Parcell uses but I'm pretty sure that we had the same conditioning coach back in 2001 when we had a relatively good year injury wise. Willie and Ted Johnson lost a couple of games to injury and we all know the Terry Glenn fiasko but nothing season ending.
    Ooops. Allmost forgot Drew Bledsoes injury. I'm not sure you can pin that on the conditioning coach though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It's not that players are more or less injured under Parcells or Belichick. It's about how the coaches deal with players differently. Parcells probably played guys who were hurt lots of times, and Belichick probably keeps them out of games just to be safe.
     
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It also might be argued that Tuna was inherently a better one-on-one motivator than BB, and certainly better with the press.
     
  6. Krazy Koz

    Krazy Koz On the Game Day Roster

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    not to mention going to the playoffs more with BB. so you end up playing more games and having less rest for the offseason.
     
  7. Krazy Koz

    Krazy Koz On the Game Day Roster

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    I wouldn't say he's any better with the press. Especially after last year with TO and tony homo.
     
  8. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The injury that happened to Parcells that I remember the most was Gash getting hurt before the SB. He had been such a monster blocking for Martin that year, was decent catching balls out of the backfield, and was very good picking up the blitz or chipping ends. I think that he would have changed the game plan a little and would have helped Lane out against White. Of course who knows maybe Tuna still would have fallen in love with Meggett for no reason and not given Martin enough touches.
     
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with everyone who said that they treat injuries differently. I think Belichick looks at at everything at a big picture level. He decides whether sitting a player one week for precautionary reasons will help out for the season as a whole. Maybe losing a player for a game hurts them for that game, but makes him healthier for the season. Besides, based on match ups, that player may not be as crucial as he is in other weeks so it is better to rest him when he won't be as big as a part in the offense or defense rather than risk aggravating the injury and losing him when he is the big part.

    I think may players that Belichick deactivates due to injuries during the season would play for other teams without missing a game. That is probably why we tend to be picking up steam late in the season while other teams seem to be slowing down. Nagging injuries tend to pay their toll late in the season.
     
  10. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    I do think there's some truth to the idea that because of adequate depth/long-range planning some guys are held out who maybe don't have to be. Not sure that explains the complete devastation of, say, the secondary the past couple of years, where guys were on IR, Troy Brown had to play defensive back, etc. Of course that's where you could say simple luck plays a part as well.

    Put it this way. If it IS luck, I'd say the Pats are due for a run of GOOD luck next year on the injury front.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Mike Woicjik being possibly responsible for the injuries comes up about once a month, and then we have to put it to bed for the next month, FYI he has the most superbowl rings of any coach of player(6).

    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=coachbio&bio=532

    Mike Woicik was named the Patriots strength and conditioning coach on Bill Belichick's staff on Feb. 16, 2000. The 29-year coaching veteran is now in his 17th season in the NFL and has initiated strength and conditioning programs that have contributed to the success of six Super Bowl Championship teams, three with the Patriots and three with the Dallas Cowboys. Woicik's six Super Bowl rings are more than any player or head coach in NFL history has earned. Woicik is a two-time winner of the Professional Football Strength and Conditioning Society's Coach of the Year Award, earning the honor in 1992 and 2004.
    Woicik's year-round conditioning program has proven to be a significant factor in the Patriots' success, as the team has remained fresh and saved its best football for the end of the season. Since 2001, New England has compiled a 46-9 (.836) record in games played after November 1, a record that exemplifies the solid conditioning approach employed by Woicik. Additionally, New England has been able to sustain lengthy winning streaks during Woicik's tenure, compiling an NFL-record 21-game winning streak from 2003-04 and also achieving a 12-game winning streak from 2001-02.

    Woicik entered the NFL coaching ranks with the Dallas Cowboys in 1990 and was voted the NFL's "Strength Coach of the Year" in 1992. During his seven seasons (1990-96) with the Cowboys, the team totaled an 89-38 record, including 12 playoff victories and three Super Bowl championships.

    Prior to joining the Patriots, he spent three seasons with the New Orleans Saints (1997-99) working under head coach Mike Ditka.
     
  12. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess people have to point their finger at someone to explain their reasoning.

    This thread was started on the premise that Parcells teams had less injuries than BB teams, so Parcells is better in that way. This was done without one shread of evidence to back it up.:eek:

    So, lets blame the S/C coach, who happens tot be one of the most respected in football. Not, my opinion, but the opinion of another NFL S/C who I happen to know.
     
  13. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wow, some real testiness on these last couple of posts. GJAJ15, if a topic has come up before, I’m not surprised. This board is wide open for threads, so I’m sure everything is repeated. It’s not something I’ve specifically seen, but I wouldn’t doubt it’s been raised before. I brought up the topic because I think it’s interesting.

    I did NOT say that Mike Woicjik is responsible for the Pats having huge numbers of injuries the past few years, I simply noted that in comparison to what I RECALL over the years with Parcells’ teams, there seems to be more. PatsNut, I’m not “pointing my finger at someone to explain my reasoning”, I’m asking why a perception that I have regarding the two may (or may not) be true. So take a deep breath and relax. There’s been some intesting posts on this thread about different philosophies regarding injuries, the element of luck, etc. It’s clearly a topic that pertains to the Patriots as of late. If you don’t think so, you haven’t been paying attention.
     
  14. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'd like to see some statistical data if it were available to show just exactly how different the volume of time missed from games there is between BB run teams and Parcells run teams. I do think the Pats have had to deal with alot the past couple of seasons, but it would surprise me if there was a definate difference year after year between the two.

    All I know is, BB leads us to super bowl wins, so he's obviously doing all the right things!
     
  15. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    I'd rather have 3 rings and a rash of injuries yearly than 0 rings, broken promises, and then Parcells hightailing it out of town on the midnight train.

    Besides don't injuries have MORE to do with a team's training staff/physicians/health care professionals? We wouldn't want to attribute HEALTH problems to the guys actually responsible now would we?
    PS with no statistical data backup or investigative reports or even anecdotal evidence the premise of this thread looks like complete hogwash.
    It holds about as much water as LT's now retracted famous statement that the "lack of class" shown by the Pats was due to the Head Coach.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  16. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Certainly injuries might have something to do with a team’s training staff/physicians/health care professionals. Many possibilities—that’s why I’m asking the question. I do think Bill Belichick would be the first to say that he bears responsibility for what happens on his team, though—don’t think he’d the pass the buck to the training staff. The anecdotal evidence comes from my recollection; you’re right, I have yet to conduct an investigative report into the matter.

    The “premise of the thread” was to wonder about the Pats’ seeming rash of injuries in recent years, which I find intriguing. I suppose we could just say GO PATS! all day but that gets old pretty quick.
     
  17. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think its simply a matter of BB getting his players committed to all playing Rodney-ball and not worry about exposing themselves to injury. He can do this because, with a few notable exceptions, the coach has shown that its his plug'n'play system that's the big winner.
     
  18. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well, I think guys played hard for Parcells too. Since the injury bug has hit the secondary more than anywhere else, there might be something to the idea that it's the kind of D-backs the Pats draft (tend to be smaller guys.) With someone like Harrison, age plays a part too.
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Injuries are part of football, some teams are hit harder than others.. to me it looks cyclical and the luck of the draw.. there have been posts before by those who are adept at these things and shown where we are about in the middle of games not played by starters due to injury.. not the highest and not the lowest.

    Do not confuse testiness with fact, do not confuse anecdotal evidence with long term results. I have never seen documented where the injury situation has anything to do with coaching, training or anything else, but football.. injuries are what they are, part of the NFL. For example Rodney, broke his shoulder on a very freak play and then had knee problems because of a cheap shot, neither was due to anything except football. Seau broke his arm, on and on..
     
  20. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    It might be "a fact" that a topic comes up repeatedly, but it was a testy point to make. Don't sweat it.

    More to the point, if injuries have nothing to do with training, why was your first post a press release about Mike Woicjik? Fact is, there might obviously be a link. Something interesting to think about.
     

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