One key ingredient that is missing

[OldNEPatsFan]

IMO its a combination of things with scheming (or out-schemed), play-calling, confidence and lack of execution being the lion's share of the team's current difficulties.

You can't do too much scheming when a 3 man rush can get to your QB.

 

[muzz]

That's why this team is 7-5, has no road wins, and no wins against teams with a record above 0.500?

Really? This team was top 3 in both offensive and defensive scoring two weeks ago, 10 games into the season, and it's now suddenly a talent problem?

They've only played 2 good offensive teams, and gave up over 30 in each of them.. other than those 2 games, they really haven't played much quality, hence the inflated stats.

 

[PatsSox363804]

The defense gave up a 4th and 5 that would have ended the game, that is not clutch. The whole team did everything they could to lose today. All they needed to do was take the damn 3 points at the end of the half and they win.

 

[DougFlutie]

They've only played 2 good offensive teams, and gave up over 30 in each of them.. other than those 2 games, they really haven't played much quality, hence the inflated stats.

If I recall this defense stuffed the high-flying Ravens offense, and the Falcons offense too.

Meanwhile this offense has shat the bed against defenses playing rookie secondaries, and also guys signed off the street a week before and didn't play in the league for a year.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's been mentioned in the threads kind of as off-hand comments, but I think it needs its own thread.

The Pats are missing leadership on defense. They are missing the Willie McGinest type leader. Seymour wasn't that type of leader. Thomas isn't that type of leader. Vrabel and Bruschi were leaders, but their leadership was different. Neither Warren nor Wilfork seem to be that sort of leader either, though Warren may be developing into that sort of leader..

And, for all of his 18 or 20 or whatever seasons, Seau is NOT that leader...

The Pats need a Mike Vrabel type leader to come in and really kick things up a notch..

I agree 100 percent, and have felt this way since week 1. Not enough pride there. Someone needs to light a fire under the asses of Adalius Thomas, Burgess, Jarvis Green, etc., and Mayo is too young for that. Seau is not the stud he used to be. There needs to be at least two or three starters on defense to set the tone physically and emotionally, and we don't have ONE.

 

[DougFlutie]

I agree 100 percent, and have felt this way since week 1. Not enough pride there. Someone needs to light a fire under the asses of Adalius Thomas, Burgess, Jarvis Green, etc., and Mayo is too young for that. Seau is not the stud he used to be. There needs to be at least two or three starters on defense to set the tone physically and emotionally, and we don't have ONE.

If this offense could have mustered a field goal in the final 25 minute, the Patriots would be 8-4 right now.

Through 5 losses for this 7-5 team, this offense is averaging 3.5 points in the 2nd half of the losses.

 

[carolinatony]

agree 100 percent, and have felt this way since week 1. Not enough pride there. Someone needs to light a fire under the asses of Adalius Thomas, Burgess, Jarvis Green, etc., and Mayo is too young for that. Seau is not the stud he used to be. There needs to be at least two or three starters on defense to set the tone physically and emotionally, and we don't have ONE.

There is no vocal leader on this defense and you are right.
Give us a Rodney or someone to get them fired up. Its a emotional game and when you don't have any, you lose.

 

[Tunescribe]

If this offense could have mustered a field goal in the final 25 minute, the Patriots would be 8-4 right now.

I suspect the Dolphins would've scored a touchdown on that last drive if they needed it. Our defense could stop NOBODY on third (or fourth) down, and when you surrender 300-plus yards to a QB like Henne with his cast of mediocre receivers, you know something is really, really wrong.

 

[DougFlutie]

This team also needs a vocal leader on offense.

Remember when unheralded Brady used to get into his O-line or receivers to get their head right, or raise their game? He's mellowed out now and hasn't done this in a long time.


The offense has nobody on the unit to light a fire under player's asses.

 

[patsinthesnow]

You can't do too much scheming when a 3 man rush can get to your QB.

100% correct. This causes me to get so pissed off when watching the game. 3 How can you not block 3 rushes on 5 linemen for more then 3 seconds. Its frustrating!

We can't rush, and we can't stop the rush

 

[Jimke]

It's been mentioned in the threads kind of as off-hand comments, but I think it needs its own thread.

The Pats are missing leadership on defense. They are missing the Willie McGinest type leader. Seymour wasn't that type of leader. Thomas isn't that type of leader. Vrabel and Bruschi were leaders, but their leadership was different. Neither Warren nor Wilfork seem to be that sort of leader either, though Warren may be developing into that sort of leader..

And, for all of his 18 or 20 or whatever seasons, Seau is NOT that leader...

The Pats need a Mike Vrabel type leader to come in and really kick things up a notch..

Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!
I take it one step further. They're missing all the veteran talent that
they have lost. The only thing these players accepted was winning.
I don't think there is the comraderie among these new players.

 

[alvinnf]

100% correct. This causes me to get so pissed off when watching the game. 3 How can you not block 3 rushes on 5 linemen for more then 3 seconds. Its frustrating!

We can't rush, and we can't stop the rush

They are addicted to going down the field....... I think you would be suprised how good their line would look if they tried to get the ball out of Brady's hand quicker.

 

[jagkho]

100% correct. This causes me to get so pissed off when watching the game. 3 How can you not block 3 rushes on 5 linemen for more then 3 seconds. Its frustrating!

We can't rush, and we can't stop the rush

I think the reason that the opposing defense can get so much pressure on us is that they know that we are throwing time and time again (no screens, draws, etc. to break things up), and they can consistently tee off on our o-line. We need to run the ball more, and we need to stop relying so much on the 5-wide spread offence with Brady in the shotgun. When there is no threat of a run, and no threat to throw to anyone else but Welker and Moss, well you make it pretty damn easy for the opposing defense.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

imo, it is a talent issue. They just don't have any talent at linebacker, outside of mayo, who's above average, but not much. The rest are jags. With the type of 3-4 defense the patriots use, you have to linebackers who can make plays. They don't have any.

+1,000,000

 

[DaBruinz]

I think leadership is one thing that is needed, but they need players who will set the tone of the defense. Rodney, Tedy, Willie, etc. would all make those game changing plays or hits that knocks the opposing team's ball carrier into Tuesday that made you go wow. I don't see enough of that on this defense. You see it from time to time, but this defense seems to take what the opposing offenses takes and there aren't any tone setters.

What you just described is a LEADER.. And Willie was that sort of leader. More so than Rodney. More so than Bruschi. Bruschi even said it himself. Willie was THE MAN. And the Pats don't have that..

As for the Johnny Come Latelys posting in the thread, thanks for your comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the original post. The thread was about a lack of leadership on defense. NOT issues with the Coordinators. NOT the what might have beens if the offense had done somethign.. Not all the "talent" that is gone.. Leadership and leadership alone.

 

[DaBruinz]

IMO, it is a talent issue. They just don't have any talent at linebacker, outside of Mayo, who's above average, but not much. The rest are jags. With the type of 3-4 defense the Patriots use, you have to linebackers who can make plays. They don't have any.

Talent issue? HUH? Mayo is only above average? WTF are you smoking?

First and foremost, the Pats have used the 4-3 for a majority of the season. Secondly, Mayo is more than just "above average". The Problem is that he's trying to do too much. Three, they have LBers that can make plays. The problem is that those LBers aren't playing within the system. Not Thomas. And not Guyton. And that is forcing Mayo to try and do too much.

The Pats have talent. MUCH of it, very young. They've got a significant age gap and it caught up to them because the likes of Samuel and Branch were money grubbers.

That being said, none of it has to do with the lack of leadership on the defensive side of the ball.. There are a couple of players who could develop nicely, but they are a year or two away.. They don't have a leader RIGHT NOW.

 

[DaBruinz]

+1,000,000

-1,000,000 to spiral and -2,000,000 to you. You're both wrong for being off topic.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Yeah, I think it's evident that the mental toughness is lacking on defense. Like I mentioned in the other thread, I've defended the defense alot on here and overall I've been satisfied with them. They play their part and do fine when everything is going well. But when things don't go well they just fall apart so easy. A few examples:

- 4th and 2 failure @ Indy. Okay maybe it's not a terrible thing they couldn't kep Peyton Manning out the end zone, but they really didn't look close to stopping anything.

- Brady pick @ NO. NO proceeds to score at will for the next 2-2.5 quarters.

- 4th and 1 fail inside Miami 5. Again they fold like a cheap tent and allow Miami to march down the field. Chad Henne looks unstoppable.

Lack of leadership and poor coaching has killed us this year. Of all the teams in the BB era this team has been lost/confused/sloppy the most.

 

[crypto]

The offense has nobody on the unit to light a fire under player's asses.

Wes Welker.

Whoever said the defense isn't clutch is 100% correct. Yeah, the awful offensive effort put them in a tight spot, but in 2003 the Patriots would win games 12–0. Twelve-to-f*cking-zero! No, I don't expect these guys to be THAT good, but they are not playing as well as they should be. I do maintain that at least half the blame should be landed on the coaching staff.

 

[Kontradiction]

Would this leader be capable of "leading" the rest of the defense into the backfield to rush the passer?