Welcome to PatsFans.com

On pre-war intell, Dems will investigate until they win

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Link to complete article:
    [urlhttp://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/ByronYork/062206.html [/url]


    Dems lied People Died?

    No they were telling the truth as they understood it, now it just politics.

    There is prenty more from the 1998 sessions before GWB hit town.
     
  2. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    Oh stop it with your Rovian techniques, you know damn well this is just a Rovian ploy to smear the democrats.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,216
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +667 / 2 / -9

    They tried the same thing with their "recounts", they kept losing, they still can't get over it.
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    What should they have said? Saddam is a great guy, who's being 100% cooperative? Pleeez. Obviously, both Democrats and Republicans turned up the rhetoric several notches in order to put pressure on Saddam and let him know he wasn't trusted. In addition, these statemetns are made in support of justifying the American strategy of forcing compliance. No one, liberal or conservative, was prepared to give Saddam the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes you guys are a little naive.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Well they were debating and voting on going to war, so the truth may have been the way to go.
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    They knew Saddam was difficult and supported giving Bush the power to go to war as a means of leverage, but for the most part they did not expect Bush to actually go to war without having more of a plan and fully vetted evidence. That said, when he finally went to war, they felt they had to stand with him and put on a united front. They were wrong for doing that, but in the wake of 9/11 it's easy to understand why they did.
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Authorizing the country to go to war is the is the most serious decision a legislator ever makes. IF you authorize force yo uare committing the troops to go in harms way. You don't do that a a barganing chip. If the dems behave as you suggest they failed as legislators.

    No way to rationalize this decision. You don't play political games with life and death decisions.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    Yes, patsfan13, I agree. That said, I do think that if Clinton had been president, an authorization like the one granted would have been used more responsibly.
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Unfortunaly had Clinton (or Gore) not much would have been done except bluster. When we look at eh 90's no response to WTC bombing 1 (treated as a criminal matter, rahter than ack of war), Khobar towers, Cole bombing, Embassy bombing, Somilia, no reaction to declaration of war by Al Queda, snookered by N Korea on Nuke weapons development.

    Posturing is effective when dealing with domestic policy and politics it is dangerous when dealing in International politics, where enemies are out to do us great harm.
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    Going to war has killed more than 2,500 Americans. It has made the terrorists stronger, expanded anti-American feeling, created a record deficit, destroyed a nation, left tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead, unemployed, living in fear, and so on. Measured by numbers of dead, including soldiers, the war has netted us and the world nothing but tragedy. Far fewer Americans died under Clinton and the world was a far safer place. You want to use our soldiers as fodder to satisfy your own thirst for revenge; well revenge doesn't necessary bring peace and security.

    As far as North Korea goes, Bush has been in office for 6 years, and what has he done? So far, under his watch we've seen North Korea and Iran make great strides in advancing their nuclear programs. You can fault Clinton, who at least accomplished a little with North Korea, but Bush has accomplished nothing so far. Clinton's North Korea strategy, which was based on the reality that North Korea had a nuclear weapons program since the 80s is similar to Bush's Iran strategy.
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Disagree, showing weakness makes the terrorist stronger. Pulling out of Mogadeshuconvinced Bin Laden that America was weak and would run if 'punched in the nose', he has said that convinced him to go forward with the 9-11 plan

    The world alwayshas Anti American feelings we are envyed, nothing new. We were pitied after 9-11, I would rather that our enemies fear us than our friends pity us. The deficit isn't a record as a % of GDP, but congress (without active resistiance from the WH) has spent far too much.

    As to the IRaqi people.Refugee camps in the MIddle East are emptying out as Iraqi's return home. Peopleare voting with their feet and disagree. I would also note that Saddam will killing Iraqi's on a regular basis, there is at least the promise that as the insurgency is ended this will end. Under Saddam killing was SOP.

    Clinton's foreign policy and lack of response to Al Queda led to 9-11, N Korea gett Nukes and Libya getting their program off the ground. Lack of action while your enemies attack you isn't peace.

    One other accomplishment of the Liberation of Iraq. Ghaddfi gave up his nuke program after he saw that Bush meant business, he choose not to take the path Saddam did.THat wouldn't have happened if we didn't show we meant business.

    N Korea had nukes when Bush came into office,that horse was out of the barn. He has tried to engageChina who Kim relies on for his existence to try to keep him under control. Clinton enteredi nto a deal the N Koreans went on with business as usual and we did nothing.

    In Iran we are trying to work Internationally to deal with the problem, Bush hasn't agreed to anything with Iran yet. Oh BTW are you suggesting that Bush should act unilaterally with respect to N Korea and Iran? I thought the libs were big on international cooperation?

    One more thing,the canard that Iraq created 'more terrorist.I disagree. Weakness creates more terrorist. Theletter from Zarqwai indicated they were having trouble recuiting. Zarwahiri's latest tapes are begging for more Mujhadeen. IF we do what Murtha and Kerry want, the terrorist will feel they have won by driving a weak AMerica out of Iraq. They will get tons of new jihadist. Think of the bandwagon effect when a sports team wins some championships.

    Alway fun to talk with you Patters.;)
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Funny I actually have more regard for the dems who voted against the war initally (like KKK Byrd eg) or the ones like Hillary (can't believe I'm saying this:D )who stick by their decision while still critizing the conduct of the war.

    Net Net the war garnered >2/3 votein both houses, that vote was affirmed in the 2004 election.
     
  13. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    That is ironic, so in actuallity less Democratic senators voted to set a time frame for withdrawing troops from Iraq than voted against going to war with Iraq. Interesting, its strange, but I hear more than 13 senators talking about withdrawel yet only 13 votes. So who is believing the BS that their party feeds them?

    "We need to pull out now, but I won't vote for it!" :cool:

    Me thinks some folks are being took! :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2006
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    But they voted yes, beofre they voted no, and they voted to withdraw before they voted not to withdraw. They really really care and everythig.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2005
  15. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    This is a test of the emergency WMD broadcast system. This is only a test. If this had been an actual alert, pigs would fly and hell would have frozen over.
     
  16. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    Whoops I need to reword that! Let me edit my post to read

    Less Dem Senators, voted for withdrawing from Iraq, than voted for against going to war with Iraq.


    That is what I meant to say! :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2006
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    I agree we don't want to show weakness. It makes sense for our Afghanistan campaign to continue and for our intelligence and policing efforts to continue. The war, however, is doing more harm than good.

    Anti-American feeling is on the rise, and it does represent an economic, political, and security issue. We should not take it for granted, or we will simply give rise to another generation of terrorists.

    Saddam was ruthless in the way he put down civil war, fought with Iran, and got rid of his political enemies. It's not bad that he's gone, though so far we've replaced it with something worse. While people are voting, the fact is that innocent people are dying every day and the government is holed up in the Green Zone with very little power even in Baghdad.

    Clinton did his job and kept us relatively safe. The evidence suggests that Clinton (and Bush I) were effective at getting Saddam to end his WMD development. North Korea which started its nuclear weapons program under Reagan is in the same state as Iran, more or less, and Clinton made more progress than Bush has. Bush has had 6 years with North Korea, and we see them getting more belligerent and more dangerous.

    That is an accomplishment, true, but Qadaffi really hasn't done much since Reagan bombed Libya, and had already taken steps to resolve his predicament while Clinton was in office. Bush did speed along the process of rapprochement and deserves credit for recognizing Libya and opening an embassy there.

     
  18. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

  19. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

  20. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Anyone check and read the links I provided and have an opinion ,they might like to exspress?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2005

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>