Old Testament reasons for Jews to believe in Jesus

[3 to be 4]

I am reposting this with a word to those who might be concerned this is some sort of disrespect to Judaism or any kind of suggestion that somebody MUST do anything. These are just some very, very interesting scriptures in the Old Testament that point the way to ************ as being the Jewish Messiah. These are "reasons", not a command to anyone to do anything.
I am a Jewish person myself who ha come to believe that ************ is my Lord and Savior and these are some reasons why.
Enjoy and be open. If not, there is no requirement for you to even look at it

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documen...t_of_jesus.htm

 

[3 to be 4]

might as well have both sides of the aisle represented close together so that people can compare.

 

[3 to be 4]

maybe now I can post this without PFIV becoming unglued..

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documen...t_of_jesus.htm

 

[3 to be 4]

this is a terrific website with links to Messianic Congregations all over the world.
http://www.jewishvoice.org/

Jewish people, like myself, are accepting ************ as their Savior,Lord and Messiah worldwide because it stands up through scripture.

this is not to force anything on anyone, its to stand up for what we believe is truth and to share the good news of ************.

Peace be with you all.

 

[3 to be 4]

this thread should probably get moved to the religious forum before someone has a cow.
thanks

 

[3 to be 4]

WOW!!! look at this great link I found:

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documen...t_of_jesus.htm

oh wait, I posted that to begin this thread!

Silly me. Its still a great one.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Well, just in reaction to the thread title: Speaking as an actual Jew, I have no need or desire to believe in Jesus. I keep 3 on ignore, so I have no idea what the last 12 or so posts are about. But I figured I'd better drop by or he'd get lonely.

OT, hiya Nikki, long time no see - welcome back!

PFnV

 

[3 to be 4]

Well, just in reaction to the thread title: Speaking as an actual Jew, I have no need or desire to believe in Jesus. I keep 3 on ignore, so I have no idea what the last 12 or so posts are about. But I figured I'd better drop by or he'd get lonely.

OT, hiya Nikki, long time no see - welcome back!

PFnV

ahhh, PFIV is ignoring me AGAIN see. And calling himself an "actual" Jew which must mean to be Jewish you're not supposed to put any stock in scripture, which is a position he has professed consistantly, and you dont really have to believe in God. ???
And that must also mean that per PFIV those of us (and there are more in the world than he would care to admit) who believe in the Old Testament, and based on its prophetic teachings believe that Jesus is the Messiah talked about, are not "actual" Jews.
This was the need to post this thread to begin with, to offer information, based on Old Testament scripture, which Jews, such as myself who believe it to be true, why Jesus provides fulfillment of over 300 prophesies in that scripture.

Now if one wishes to go through that scripture to debate why it isnt so, i from the beginning, welcomed that.
Instead, some people chose to simply lash out at me for simply offering the reasoning and call me "anti-semitic" or "self-hating Jew", all the lazy, ignorant stereotypes.
It shows the character and weakness of the accuser.

I welcome anyone to go through the link, the links i posted about fulfilled prophesy, and the link within this thread called Jewishvoice.com which shows how the Messianic movement is real and growing fast in anticipation of the return of our Lord ************.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Hello again, from high orbit!

You have made a number of anti-semitic assumptions and statements in the past, although, as I understand it, you are a Jew by birth. That's like citizenship, sorta -- even your apostasy doesn't change it. So, as I've said numerous times, you're a Jewish apostate to Christianity.

You've abandoned the faith of your fathers, but retain the word "Jew" as a quasi-ethnic identifier. But if you have children, do you intend to baptise them, then convert them to Judaism under Halakhic law, then convert them again to Christianity? Or do you intend to marry a nice apostate Jewish girl, to have Jewish children "by blood", so their religion doesn't matter?

Eventually, I think you'll find you have to choose: Christian or Jewish?

You're welcome to the rest of the thread, 3. As I've said numerous times, this very thread is offensive to anybody with half a brain. The very fact of proselytizing is, by nature, a slap in the face to other religions, but when you aim it at one "competitor" or "precursor" faith, you single out its own creed as being in need of change.

PnV

 

[3 to be 4]

Hello again, from high orbit!

You have made a number of anti-semitic assumptions and statements in the past, although, as I understand it, you are a Jew by birth. That's like citizenship, sorta -- even your apostasy doesn't change it. So, as I've said numerous times, you're a Jewish apostate to Christianity.

You've abandoned the faith of your fathers, but retain the word "Jew" as a quasi-ethnic identifier. But if you have children, do you intend to baptise them, then convert them to Judaism under Halakhic law, then convert them again to Christianity? Or do you intend to marry a nice apostate Jewish girl, to have Jewish children "by blood", so their religion doesn't matter?

Eventually, I think you'll find you have to choose: Christian or Jewish?

You're welcome to the rest of the thread, 3. As I've said numerous times, this very thread is offensive to anybody with half a brain. The very fact of proselytizing is, by nature, a slap in the face to other religions, but when you aim it at one "competitor" or "precursor" faith, you single out its own creed as being in need of change.

PnV

Hmmm. This word ignore. I dont think it means what you think its means (Princess Bride, anyone )

Oy vay, again with the "anti-semitism"?
for the millionth time, instead of spewing out accusations, how about answering the Old Testament prophesies. Who was that man, the one who ends up fulfilling over 300 of them?

As for my children. By blood, especially since their mother is Jewish because HER mother was Jewish, they will always be Jewish, but their acceptance of Christ will make them In Christ, so they will also be Christians. My oldest child has believed long before I ever did.
But before anyone assumes anything, whatever they end up believing, they will always be my children and I will love them unconditionally. Ultimately we all make our own choice. All I can do, and all I ever do here, is to give out the information. If you dont accept it, that is your choice. But im not "anti-semitic" or anti anything for offering it.

And I dont accept this either/or religious nonsense. Jews who accept Christ are simply practicing their faith to its natural conclusion and Christians are, at their roots, followers of Judaism practiced to its scriptural conclusion.
That im in the minority doesnt matter one bit. So was Jesus.

btw, here is that link again to Jewishvoice. I, myself, dont think of myself as a Messianic Jew, im not into all that labeling, but this is to show its not at all rare anymore for Jews to come to accept the Lord. Its here, and its growing.

http://www.jewishvoice.org/festivals.php

interesting website, look around it.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

The very fact of proselytizing is, by nature, a slap in the face to other religions,...

PnV

Amen!

Excellent line that captures one of the many feelings of individuals following other religions - especially those that were existing before the Common Era and still being followed by many - have towards proselytizing.

 

[3 to be 4]

A reason why the "You are either a Christian or a Jew" position is not so. For Christians, Paul makes it clear in the New Testament. For Jews, a reminder that ************ is the Jewish King.


Ephesians 2: 11-22

11 Don’t forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called “uncircumcised heathens” by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts. 12 In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope. 13 But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.

14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.

17 He brought this Good News of peace to you Gentiles who were far away from him, and peace to the Jews who were near. 18 Now all of us can come to the Father through the same Holy Spirit because of what Christ has done for us.

19 So now you Gentiles are no longer strangers and foreigners. You are citizens along with all of God’s holy people. You are members of God’s family. 20 Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself. 21 We are carefully joined together in him, becoming a holy temple for the Lord. 22 Through him you Gentiles are also being made part of this dwelling where God lives by his Spirit.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Amen!

Excellent line that captures one of the many feelings of individuals following other religions - especially those that were existing before the Common Era and still being followed by many - have towards proselytizing.

Whatever one thinks of proselytizing in general, it would take a very trusting soul not to see proselytizing as filling primarily a psychic void in the proselytizer, doubly so if the proselytizer is himself an apostate -- and triply so, for an apostate at such great pains to deny his apostasy.

PFnV

Edited to say - whoops, that's right, I was going to leave the thread to 3. Eh well

 

[wistahpatsfan]

Whatever one thinks of proselytizing in general, it would take a very trusting soul not to see proselytizing as filling primarily a psychic void in the proselytizer, doubly so if the proselytizer is himself an apostate -- and triply so, for an apostate at such great pains to deny his apostasy....

I just walked in and I have one question:
What the fu-k are you talking about? I don't understand a word of what you're saying! What a confusing religion, and I thought Catholics were complicated!...one thing Jews and Catholics have in common.
Never mind explaining. I'd rather remain ignorant this time. I wonder what Harry Boy's up to.:rocker:

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I just walked in and I have one question:
What the fu-k are you talking about? I don't understand a word of what you're saying! What a confusing religion, and I thought Catholics were complicated!...one thing Jews and Catholics have in common.
Never mind explaining. I'd rather remain ignorant this time. I wonder what Harry Boy's up to.:rocker:

Oh come on, Wistah! I have to explain now! (which means I shouldn't have been such an ass about my phrasing in the first place...)

The point I'm making is that taking a proselytizer (someone who wants to convert others) at face value is a little nuts, in general. That's because one fills a psychic need or hole in his own life, by going around trying to convert others.

When you see the conversion attempt coming from someone who himself left his religion, in my opinion, you need a few more grains of salt to take it with. The psychic need that is addressed by wanting to convert others, is that much more evident -- if, of course, one does not take the proselytizer's motives at face value (he loves you so much he wants to make you like him, God loves you so much he wants to make you like the proselytizer, etc.)

Now, it could be that a particular apostate (someone who converts to another religion) has actually found the absolute truth.

If that is the case, what appears to be behavior with a very sound psychological explanation is, in reality, just an outgrowth of his recognition of the absolute truth (which I just do not have access to, if I disagree with him.)

But I find the simpler, more elegant explanation to be that the act of proselytizing -- trying to convert others -- is particularly important for the apostate -- someone who has himself converted.

It seems that the conversion of others would fulfil a need for validation the convert himself feels. It points to his own apostasy as the central issue of his existence, which he plays out publicly by trying to replicate the experience in others. If others share the experience, it is much less aberrant.

For more on the word "apostasy," see my "definitional niceties" thread.

Thanks,

PFnV

 

[3 to be 4]

Oh come on, Wistah! I have to explain now! (which means I shouldn't have been such an ass about my phrasing in the first place...)

The point I'm making is that taking a proselytizer (someone who wants to convert others) at face value is a little nuts, in general. That's because one fills a psychic need or hole in his own life, by going around trying to convert others.

When you see the conversion attempt coming from someone who himself left his religion, in my opinion, you need a few more grains of salt to take it with. The psychic need that is addressed by wanting to convert others, is that much more evident -- if, of course, one does not take the proselytizer's motives at face value (he loves you so much he wants to make you like him, God loves you so much he wants to make you like the proselytizer, etc.)

Now, it could be that a particular apostate (someone who converts to another religion) has actually found the absolute truth.

If that is the case, what appears to be behavior with a very sound psychological explanation is, in reality, just an outgrowth of his recognition of the absolute truth (which I just do not have access to, if I disagree with him.)

But I find the simpler, more elegant explanation to be that the act of proselytizing -- trying to convert others -- is particularly important for the apostate -- someone who has himself converted.

It seems that the conversion of others would fulfil a need for validation the convert himself feels. It points to his own apostasy as the central issue of his existence, which he plays out publicly by trying to replicate the experience in others. If others share the experience, it is much less aberrant.

For more on the word "apostasy," see my "definitional niceties" thread.

Thanks,

PFnV

Notice, that instead of offering anything in response to anything said about scripture, the accuser just continues to accuse.

oh well, his loss

I anxiously await his next ignoring of me.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Whatever one thinks of proselytizing in general, it would take a very trusting soul not to see proselytizing as filling primarily a psychic void in the proselytizer, doubly so if the proselytizer is himself an apostate -- and triply so, for an apostate at such great pains to deny his apostasy.

PFnV

Edited to say - whoops, that's right, I was going to leave the thread to 3. Eh well

Since this thread targets the Jews in particular (and I am not one), I will add a brief note and not take much space.

Your irritation towards proselytization is bound to increase if you travel to the developing countries, especially to the villages/remote regions, and see/hear/read about how subtly the zealous missionaries try to convert. At least the Jews in this country have a strong network to fall upon when they come across such distasteful activities. The poor and the uneducated in the other countries have no such option and blindly trust the missionary who offers free goodies and help in the name of service.

 

[3 to be 4]

Since this thread targets the Jews in particular (and I am not one), I will add a brief note and not take much space.

Your irritation towards proselytization is bound to increase if you travel to the developing countries, especially to the villages/remote regions, and see/hear/read about how subtly the zealous missionaries try to convert. At least the Jews in this country have a strong network to fall upon when they come across such distasteful activities. The poor and the uneducated in the other countries have no such option and blindly trust the missionary who offers free goodies and help in the name of service.

yes, its those evil missionaries who are causing so much harm in the world.

thanks for sharing.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

yes, its those evil missionaries who are causing so much harm in the world.

thanks for sharing.

Anytime!

My apologies because I had to leave abruptly before clarifying my comment as 'a good % of missionaries' and not all. In fact, I meant to add a line about how other services (without any conversion motive) provided by the other missionaries and Chrisitan organizations are getting a bad rap because of some of the zealous missionaries. But then I didn't want to go deep into it because you created this thread for Jews and the Old Testament.

And to your sarcasm regarding the 'much harm' - not sure if you are aware of the social tension and disruption created within the families and societies especially if the rest belong to some other religion.

Adios!

 

[3 to be 4]

Anytime!

My apologies because I had to leave abruptly before clarifying my comment as 'a good % of missionaries' and not all. In fact, I meant to add a line about how other services (without any conversion motive) provided by the other missionaries and Chrisitan organizations are getting a bad rap because of some of the zealous missionaries. But then I didn't want to go deep into it because you created this thread for Jews and the Old Testament.

And to your sarcasm regarding the 'much harm' - not sure if you are aware of the social tension and disruption created within the families and societies especially if the rest belong to some other religion.

Adios!

Obviously, spreading the Gospel brings social tension and disruption. That is always the case when lives are changed. Everybody worships something. If its not God, its money, self, substances, sex, sports,power, entertainment. Whatever it is, we all worship something.

So to accept Christ does require giving up what was worshipped before, not an easy thing for most people.

The question is, what causes more harm, social tension and disruption brought on by spreading the Gospel, or the souls that are lost for eternity.

If you are not a believer, that might not make any sense to you. But if you are a believer, its not even a question.