Welcome to PatsFans.com

OLBs from #28 on?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by patchick, Mar 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Let's assume that DaQuan Bowers, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan -- whatever you may think of them -- are all off the board at pick 28, and the Patriots are still in the market for an outside pass rusher. I'm curious who you all see as the next tiers.

    Some possibilities I see are below, in descending order with my own subjective grades. Don't be shy chiming in. ;-)


    Brooks Reed
    : The more I see, the more I like. Showed off explosion with a great 10-yd split at the Combine, moved better than I expected in space, and looks as tenacious in drills as on the field. Great effort and leadership guy. A mini Kerrigan. (My grade: high 2nd.)

    Justin Houston
    : A pleasant surprise at the Combine with his size/speed combo, but in drills showed he can only move forward. Explosive pass rusher, but not a huge repetoire of moves. (My grade: mid-2nd.)

    Jabaal Sheard
    : Powerful, hustling pass-rusher who's solid against the run. Good effort/intensity, questionable agility. Doesn't always play in control. (My grade: late 2nd.)

    Sam Acho: Shorter player with nifty quickness and agility and good motor, but not the most explosive/powerful pass rusher. (My grade: high 3rd.)

    Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type; potential to not play a down in the NFL. Shouldn't be the only player drafted at the position. (My grade: 4th.)

    Akeem Ayers: An interesting athlete who isn't instinctive or powerful enough to match his reputation. (My grade: 4th.)

    Jeremy Beal: I can't ignore the utter disaster of a post-season Beal has had. His measurables are weak, too. Yet he's smart, hard-working player who did too much on the field for 4 seasons to write off altogether. (My grade: 5th.)

    D'Aundre Reed: Caught my eye at the Combine -- had a good-sized frame and looked impressively agile and athletic, if unpolished, running LB drills. D. Reed was the 3rd DE in a rotation at Arizona headed by Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore, and was reportedly the best run stopper of the group. I went back and looked for him in pass-rushing highlights of the the other 2, and liked what I saw. (My grade: 6th.)
  2. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I like Chris Carter but I'm in the minority with that one.
  3. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Superb post.
    I am in the Reed camp as well. Can't see why Ayers has a first round value. Beal is one of those "He really rots at combine stuff, but he'll win you a game or two a year". Beal might be worth a gamble.

    I am starting to invest more in the kid from Fresno, but the absolute sleeper can be Greg Romeus who has a bad disc and the an ACL last year. He has been o.k.d by four separate doctors and is ready to go. I am sure he has to have the ACL in his head, but this kid could be the steal that Hernandez was and had the same issues of Tate the year before and BB took a shot on both.

    If he left after Pitt's 2009 season after his junior year, he might have been one of the first five players taken last April.At 6-7, 285 pounds, Big East Defensive Player of the Year in 2009.Has quick feet of a basketball player, size, quickness, strength, agility.As he has been in a rehabbing stage, Romeus is hence under the radar.
    I'd say a third rating on him even though some say 5th.
    DW Toys
  4. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,734
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +50 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #50 Jersey
    Hasn't Robert Quinn's stock been falling because of the poorer than expected Combine numbers? Or am I getting players mixed up?
  5. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Romeus? I see him listed at 6'5"/265. At 6'7"/285, I'd have him put on another 10-15 lbs and play at 3-4DE.
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Pernell McPhee: I've seen him playing 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB and DE, he can go either way as an OLB or DE, but take a few of lbs off him in the S&C program and his explosiveness and quickness will leap. Recognize he's a juco still catching up to technique and play recognition and he's a late 3rd who will probably be there in the 4th.

    Brandon Bair: Like McPhee I've seen him playing all along the line in various 3-4 and 4-3 roles. He's got the quickest hands I've seen for knocking down a pass. He can also slim down and get stronger/quicker in the S&C program, and if there's one college DL who made me think of a 2001-2005 Big Willie, it's this kid. Don't expect big sack numbers, but do expect him to clog passing lanes, be stout against the run, and to collapse the pocket as a power rusher. If all else fails sign him to the PSquad for the season and bulk him into a reserve DE. 5th round.

    Ryan Winterswyk: I loved this kid's game since he was a rFr. He's another who would need to slim down in the S&C program to help his explosiveness/quickness, but he's a very smart, all hustle kid who plays a complete game. 6th round.

    Karl Klug: This kid has been playing DT because Iowa already had DEs they liked. When I watched an Iowa game the one DL teams planned to double-team was Klug; not Clayborn, not Ballard - Klug. He can take off 20 lbs to improve his explosiveness and open field agility and you have the best 3-4 LOLB candidate in this draft. He gives up 34 lbs to John Moffitt and their battle inside was better than most prize fights, the kid was a State level wrestler as well as LB and his use of leverage in the trenches reminds me of Stephen Neal. Play him at 255 and he'll set the edge and get after the passer, he'll need time to develop in coverage, he'll be a STs stud. This kid in the trash is a pigskin seeking missile, he finds the ball before it gets to the LOS and he makes plays on it in the backfield. 7th round.

    Bruce Miller: Too short, arms too short ... he made everybody around him at UCF better. He hustled, he played inside, he played outside, he dropped into coverage occasionally, he finished his senior year as the active sack leader (I'm not sure if that was NCAA, but it was FBS). If he can't make it at OLB he might kick inside ala Bruschi, and he'll be an ace on Special Teams. 7th round.

    Josh McNary: Typical military academy kid, undersized scrapper going toe-to-toe with the bigguns from Football Factory U and making them work for every inch and point like they were walk-ons trying to win a scholarship. He won praise at the Shrine game; "McNary's quick feet, balance and reliable open-field tackling stood out Saturday, perhaps proving that the former walk-on's career 49 tackles for loss and 28 sacks (both Army records) prove he's a rare service academy prospect worth keeping an eye on in the future. - Rob Rang, The Sports Xchange/NFLDraftScout.com." Undrafted Free Agent.
  7. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The Patriots can afford to gamble in the third on a player like Romeus.

    Remember, 15 years ago, the Patriots gambled on another injured player out of Pitt, Curtis Martin. I wouldn't be at all against them going that route again.
  8. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seems to me you both have offered up a lot of reasons NOT to be overly concerned about taking an OLB in the first round.
  9. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:





    10 characters
  10. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Steven Friday (VA Tech) - Listed at 6'4", 250 but doesn't play as strong as that would suggest. He is very athletic and instinctual which makes him an absolute pest as a pass rusher. He is my middle round guy if the Pats don't load up earlier.

    Ricky Elmore (Arizona, 6'5", 255) - Limited physically but an overachiever. Always finds a way to be productive but his ceiling may fall below the "playmaker" level. Ideal guy to take late and see if he can be a system guy and play above his limitations. His heralded teammate sucking all the oxygen out of the room may cause him to drop further than he should.

    Thomas Keiser (Stanford) - Listed at 6'5", 257. He seems to show up on film even if you aren't exactly sure why. Another guy that seems too limited in strength and quickness to be a starting 3-4 OLB, but when you watch him it is hard to dismiss him entirely. Another late round guy that may be a diamond in the rough...or a golfball lost in the rough.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The funny thing about watching Elmore highlight videos is that they make me like both the Reed boys more. Brooks drew a lot of double teams, freeing up Elmore -- and when D'Aundre subbed in for Brooks, he often inherited those double teams. I seem to recall one play where D'Aundre pushed a pair of OLs into the backfield on the QB's blindside, delivering him into Elmore's waiting arms.

    Forgot about Winterswyk -- I like his all-around game too, but he seems sorely lacking in suddenness and explosion. I see a very low ceiling.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Once the top DL's and OLB's are gone, the pickings seem thin. In the end, you have 2 choices at 28/33 and only four more in the 3rd-4th round.

    There needs to alot more evaluation of Houston and Reed. If we haven't chose a passrusher at 17, it will takes nerves of steel to pass at 28.


  13. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Nothing I've seen of Houston says he's worth close to the #28 pick, especially if other options include guys like Wilkerson, Heyward, or Sherrod. And Reed, while I do like him a lot, seems like a stretch for the first round.

    But I definitely see what you mean: IF you rate Reed far above any other 3-4 OLB prospect left on the board, and the Jets, Steelers and Packers all pick between 28 and 33...yikes.
  14. bucky

    bucky Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't know who in particular might be the best. But I'm not encouraged by any of them. Basically, there are 2 ways you can go -

    1) DE conversion project who's be a 3rd down rusher for us for a couple of years. BB doesn't like spending high picks and those. Therefore, there aren't too many around. Problem is even if we get one, it'll be nothing more than a 3rd down player and even a marginal one at that. I'm thinking of someone like Romeus or Reed here.

    2) Draft someone with LB experience and move them to OLB. Problem here is that you still have somewhat of a project and they don't have great pass rush skills. So essentially you need to get someone who will at least be an upgrade to Ninkovich as an overall LB. That's where a guy like Ayers or KJ Wright come in.

    Regardless of which way we go, I don't think there will be an instant upgrade to the OLB position with anyone outside those top 3 guys or so.
  15. the wrothbroughterer

    the wrothbroughterer Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I got that impression as well. As I recall, scouts were really disappointed in his body composition. He suffered from "Skinny Leg Syndrome" and I can't remember explicitly if he was a bit doughy, too.

    If there is a lock-out I could see him dropping fast. With basically 2 years out of football, minimal tape, and 1 good season under his belt in a weaker conference, it is very easy for teams to lose interest in him.
  16. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think it depends on which scout you are referring to. Mayock is still very high on Quinn. In today's pass happy NFL, the ability to rush the passer is a critical need for all teams. Mayock and Sapp consider Quinn a freak of nature up there with Dwight Freeney in his ability to "watersurf" or rush the passer from the edge with an insane body lean, beneath the pad level of OTs.
  17. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

  18. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    My favorite for a pass rusher is Houston but my binky as a ST demon and developmental player is Bruce Carter. He doesnt fit the size/shape mold of BBs LBs but he is a superb athelete and I would much rather develop an athelete than another Chicken legged tweener.
  19. WesWelker83

    WesWelker83 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think you are delusional on Klug. Hes a solid player but most sites have him as a 5-7th rd pick. You think hes the best LOLB in the draft? I really respect your opinion but I don't see it. Id rather have Quinn, Reed, Kerrigan, Sheard, etc.

    The guy is a tweener and asking a player to drop 20 pounds is a lot. Its not like Klug is fat and out of shape. I like him as a player I just don't think hes fits our scheme. I don't see how hes going improve his agility that much to play 3-4 OLB. Hes also never dropped into coverage and he always played with his hand in the dirt. He would be used best as a 4-3 DE.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Best LOLB in this draft for NE yes. I think of Mike Vrabel and Willi Mac setting the edge in the run game at LOLB, Klug isn't going to be an overall OLB the way they are, but if you want a run stuffing OLB prepared to meet OL and smaller fry at the point of attack it's Klug. At 273 for the Shrine Game weigh-in, he's in a position to drop 20 lbs without losing any strength. If NE didn't already have such a strong, young group of ILBs I'd say grab him late and start turning him into a SILB on the PSquad - the kid has a nose for the ball in trash, whether it's the blocking angles or he just has great field vision, but he finds the ball carrier.
  21. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #54 Jersey

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
  22. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    I agree that Carter may be a nice 3rd round pick up as a situational pass rusher for this season.
  23. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Patriots fans have a lot of hate for Ayers but it doesn't seem to be matched elsewhere. NFLDraftScout (through Lindy's draft preview) certainly doesn't have him as not powerful enough or liking to avoid contact as I've read on other Pats' boards. Average instincts they do agree with. I've never watched him, I don't know, but he's a bit of a mystery for sure.
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,734
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +50 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #50 Jersey
    You really need to learn to read better. Box said he needed to lose 20 lbs to gain that explosiveness. Me, I'm not sure. 275 lbs is where Willie Mac played. 265 is the weight that Vrabel played at regularly. And, unless you've seen Klug with his shirt off and can tell us that he's chiseled with only 5% body fat, he could lose weight. He also had Klug rated as a 7th rounder. So, you blasting Box about that is pretty silly.

    That being said, the kid ran a 4.79 at 275. That tells me a lot. And just because he's never been asked to drop into coverage doesn't mean he can't.

    How do you know what Klug's agility is, exactly? He didn't run the shuttle or 3 cone at the combine.

    BTW, Bruschi had never played LB prior to coming to the Pats either. He played DE and DT in college.

    Some of the things that you ignore that are huge in terms of a LB is:
    1) Ability to get through trash.
    2) Ability to find the ball
    3) Ability to make the play behind the LOS

    Those are all things that Klug does and does well.
  25. charlie2

    charlie2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The more I think about it the more I think the team holds off until the second round to draft an OLB pass rusher. Think about it- BB will not use a first round pick on a player that is not going to come in and start and/or play a majority of downs from the get go- he is on the record as saying this. This is compounded by the fact that there are significant holes and needs on the O-line and at DE. Cunningham is most likely pegged as the starter on one side and while Ninkovich is far from great, I think he is very undervalued by fans. Sure he is not a great passrusher but I think BB loves the consistency and flexibility he brings in pass coverage. All in all I don't see a rookie coming in and pushing Nink for the other starting spot. All of this leads me to believe that 17 and 28 will be used on players that can come in immediately, play every down, and develop (ideally a DE and an o-lineman). On a side note- I think 33 is a perfect spot to grab someone like B. Reed.
  26. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    First of all I am a Greg Romeus fan. I would also not be disappointed to see Herzlich. Post his medical issues he was just as good and if not better than some mentioned.

    Has anyone considered this move? If we are scratching our head as to where an OLB can fall in the second or lower to help us and fits in the so called Pats "mold". Robert Ayers is not a round peg in a square hole in Denver. They say he was their best LB and started coming into his own when he was injured in the middle of the season. He went from bust to...."Wait a minute. He is getting it." As the Broncos switch the a 4-3, he is not the type of 4-3 OLB but more of a 3-4 edge rusher at 6'3" and 263lbs. He should not command a high pick. He is NFL and 3-4 ready. He has only two years under his belt so he can learn yet. He got into Josh's dog house (surprise!) for not attending a meeting and now worked his way out acknowledging his mistake. Perhaps #92 for him? Now we know he will fit our system and play so we can go out and get D and O line picks.

    This was from ESPN:

    "The Denver Post is reporting that Denver linebacker Robert Ayers is out for 2-3 months with a broken foot.

    This is a blow for Denver. Ayers, the No. 18 overall pick in 2009, was the Bronco’s best pass rusher with linebacker Elvis Dumervil out for the season with a chest injury".

    Well on paper he did not post many sacks but he must have had pressures.

    DW Toys
  27. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    DW Toys, the Broncos have made it clear they plan to use Ayers as a 4-3 DE, not OLB. I always thought that was his natural position to begin with.
  28. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    You could be right. It has been suggested they might move him. It might be a good fit here.
    DW Toys
  29. CTHuskies

    CTHuskies Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree with you on Romeus. My take on the others.

    Brooks Reed: His guy has come out of nowhere for me. My grade: late 1st - early 2nd round

    Jabaal Sheard: Will not be on BB’s draft board – character issues.

    Sam Acho: Team captain, very smart on and off field but may be too short for BB, if he falls to #92 grab him. My grade: high 3rd round

    Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type. I think he’s worth taking the risk on kid. My grade: late 3rd round:rocker:

    D'Aundre Reed: 3rd DE in rotation at Arizona – may be diamond in the rough – see Cassell – My grade: 5th round

    Pernell McPhee: We have plenty of these guys – see Watson, Deadrick, Brace. My grade: 6th round pick

    Brandon Bair: see McPhee above. My grade: 6th round pick

    Ryan Winterswyk: see McPhee above. My grade: 6th round pick

    Karl Klug: see McPhee above. My grade: 7th round pick

    Bruce Miller: Too short, arms too short My grade: UDFA

    Josh McNary: My grade: UDFA

    Add

    K.J. Wright OLB 6’3 245 Mississippi State: Has size speed and skills but definitely needs coaching. My grade: early 3rd round

    Jeremiha Hunter ILB 6’2 235 Iowa May be a natural ILB in a 3-4 scheme. Would be a luxury pick. My grade: late 3rd - early 4th round

    Ugo Chinasa OLB 6”5 255 Oklahoma State: Conversion project, combine showed he has the potential. My grade: late 4th - early 5th round

    Steven Friday OLB 6'4 245 Virginia Tech: Late bloomer. My grade: late 5th round

    Thomas Keiser OLB 6'5 245 Stanford: Came out too early. Stanford used him as rush linebacker's ...had 15.0 career sacks in 25 games. My grade: 6th round

    Quentin Davie OLB 6’3 240 Northwestern: Developmental type. My grade: UDFA

    Vince Browne 6’4 265 Northwestern: Developmental type. My grade: UDFA

    Alex Albright OLB 6’4 250 Boston College Team captain Developmental type. My grade: UDFA

    :bricks:
  30. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Good post. Nice work. I agree with some.
    DW Toys
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page