OK Geniuses...You're the OC...beat the Pats.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Captain Cliche, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. Captain Cliche

    Captain Cliche On the Game Day Roster

    Put on the Daddy shoes.

    You tell me. How do you beat this defense?

    I got to thinking in another thread...why don't teams pass more on the Pats? Why on earth would any team try to ground and pound the Pats. They have too much depth on the D line for that. Plus the likes of Spikes, and Hightower....slow(ish) thumpers. Why wouldn't you use your tight ends against these guys. While you're trying to establish the running game, Brady has rung up 14 on your ass and the game's virtually over.

    What gives this D fits?

    Small, speedy 3rd down backs? TE's? The Pennington/Henne's of the world? Quick, short passes...take what the 'bend but don't break' gives you?

    This D eats up gunslingers and makes you pay for your mistakes.
  2. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

    #95 Jersey

    Hail Mary after Hail Mary after Hail Mary.

    That's how Seattle scored on us.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  3. chasa

    chasa In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    put in third stringers with the instructions to "play as dirty as possible"

    spend the first half cutting guys knees out, to the point where half the patriots have been ejected.

    put starters back in.
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    DO NOT TURN THE BALL OVER - easily most important yet so many seem to struggle with this.

    Make plays in the passing game.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  5. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Use the Pats offense.

    Seriously, that's the best way to beat the Pats:

    1. A good shifty slot receiver

    2. A good 3rd down possession receiver

    3. A TE threat over the middle

    4. A QB that doesn't turn the ball over.

    5. The willingness to persist with a run game through four quarters.

    All of those would exploit our defenses weak spots. we're weak over the middle with our hefty linebackers, Arrington is playing very well in the slot but I'd worry about him going up against a Welker type and we rely so much on winning the turnover battle.
  6. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    Chuck it deep on the sideline every play. It's either a long completion or a defensive PI no matter what.

  7. Captain Cliche

    Captain Cliche On the Game Day Roster

    Yeah, you're going to lose anyhow, might as well chuck it.
  8. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

    So basically the Patriot offense?

    I'm with the others. The Seattle and Giants O is a good model:

    A fleet of tall 6' + recievers with deep shots down field is the best way to beat the Pats D.
  9. mosi

    mosi 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    First, don't turn the ball over. Second, do not get greedy. The pats will give you the short throw almost every time. Take it. Don't run on 3rd down. If you understand that for the most part, you will need 10-15 play drives to score, you will be fine.
  10. lamafist

    lamafist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Teams run the ball as much as they do because the Pats use "sub" packages on over half their snaps. Unless they're playing against a heavily run-oriented offense (like the Texans, as well as the 9ers) the game-plan seems to be make the opponent try to run the Pats out of the nickel.

    This is one of the reasons I think Jerod Mayo is severely underrated by a lot of Pats fans -- only McCourty has logged more defensive snaps per game than Mayo, and no other LB is really that close. Mayo's smarts, instincts and range make him an ideal sub-package LB, and he and the tandem of him and Wilfork make the Pats unusually solid against the run with lighter personnel on the field.
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Break tendencies.
    It also has yet to be proven that the Patriot defense can stop a team in hurry up pass only '2 minute offense' mode, especially at the end of the game.
    That situaiton has been the achilles heel for years, and Im not sure it was fixed just based upon a few games.
  12. Bravo777

    Bravo777 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    I would say having the QB scramble for yards or the deep pass. We have trouble covering quick QBs it seems.
  13. grux

    grux On the Game Day Roster

    #24 Jersey

    1. Can't have any turnovers
    2. Establish the run
    3. Get the ball in Vernon Davis's hands. Our linebackers have trouble in coverage.
    4. Don't panic because your defense can bail you out of some 3 and outs.
    5. Take some shots down field.
  14. lamafist

    lamafist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    The Pats still have trouble defending routes up the seam, so that's where I'd focus. Ideally, you have two TE's or a TE and H-back, so you can attack the seam from a running formation with play-action, or use motion out of the backfield to open up some room in the middle.

    The Pats have been playing a lot of 2-man since Talib came aboard, as well as blitzing LBs more often. With more defenders playing with their back to the QB, I think teams could have success with drag routes, late-releases by TE's and RBs, or just simple passes to the RB in the flat. Against Texas, the D benefited from Arian committing a couple uncharacteristic drops when he had a lot of space in front of him to work with.
  15. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    This is what Kevin Lynch of the SF Chronicle thinks:

    San Francisco 49ers – Niner Insider Blog – SFGate.com » Two ways the 49ers can beat the Pats

    I'm not sure NFL teams don't know how to defend the Pistol. SF, Washington even Philly with Vick used it. If NFL defenses didn't know how to stop it then they would run it the way Miami ran the Wildcat back on that October Sunday in 2008. The difference between the two, and something this writer fails to see, is that was the first time the Wildcat was used in the NFL and Miami used it on every drive in that game. The Pistol is a gimmick and will not catch the Pats or any other team for that matter off guard when the 9ers, Skins etc... use it.

    Last point. If the most important part of your gameplan is to use a gimmick offense then don't even get off the bus, you already loss. Fortunately for 49ers fans Jim Harbaugh is preparing the game plan this week, not this writer.

    Incognito is not in the same stratosphere as Mankins. What the hell does his time at Missouri have to do with Sunday's game? However I do think he is on to something, quicker, smaller lines have given the Pats O-line fits in the past. But unlike the Giants the 49ers don't have 4 quick, fast and powerfull lineman. I think Smith would be neuatralized on the inside either by being double teamed or run at. I think if they are smart the 49ers would use his quickness to beat our tackles and force BB/Josh to dedicate a TE on his side, thus negating the use of two TE's in the passing game, especially if Gronk makes a cameo.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    The defense is evolving, so it's a bit of a loaded question. The run defense has been a strength this season, so trying to pound the ball probably isn't the answer. The defense has been susceptible to the deep ball, but that was before the changes to the secondary; and the playmaking capability of the defense has the potential to make an opponent pay for mistakes. Play action has been a bit of a problem, as has been losing contain and breakdowns in coverage, but again, things seem to be tightening up. Tight end coverage, coverage of RBs, susceptibility to screens and misdirection plays, and the ability to handle quick, elusive backs in space have all given us fits. But again, it's hard to tell how much that is tightening up.

    My sense is that we are deficient in a couple of areas:

    1. A really good coverage LB who can patrol the middle of the field. We've been playing 2 cover safeties allowing the LBs to focus forward, but we don't have guys like Sean Lee, Navorro Bowman, Lavonte David or Bobby Wagner who are really fluid in space. That opens up opportunities for TEs, RBs out of the backfield, etc.

    2. Communication is still evolving. The Houston game was by far our best game, but the defense is still relatively inexperienced and new at working together. Misdirection and play action should open up opportunities.

    IMHO, the best thing with this defense is to not force things. They thrive on turnovers. Be selective in taking your shots. We've seen guys like Schaub and Luck thrown a lot of balls into very tight windows. They make some great throws, but a lot of mistakes, some of them very costly.
  17. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

    "The 49ers used it five or six straight times against the Dolphins ... "

    If so, you can bet BB has seen it and will have the team prepared to defend it.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Spread them out
    Pass against the linebackers, especially if you've got a Sproles/Rice/etc... sort of RB
    Isolate the nickel/dime backs on deep routes
    Force CB2 (Dennard) into jump ball situations against tall WRs (if you've got them)
    Force CB1 into quick cut situations against speedy WRs (if you've got them)
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  19. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

    Pats got a good look at the read option two times last year. Predictably, struggled in the first half of the game at Denver. Locked it down in the 2nd half. When they came to Foxboro, we totally dismantled it. One tackle for loss after another. Pressure up the middle from Spikes and either Mayo/Hightower are gonna blow it up. Penetration kills any read running plays. Wing-t, wishbone or read option. Pats have the personnel to blow it up.

    Our problems are making us play in space. I don't think Kaepernick is an accurate enough passer to take advantage of that when he's pressed and kept in the pocket. Inside pressure from the lb's. DE's keep QB in the pocket not going too far upfield. Wilfork and Love just stuff the LOS. Our defense is ideally suited to play these guys.
  20. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

    On offense: Go deep over and over(Put Cruz and Nicks versus our CB's and safeties, or in this weekend's case Mario Manningham, Crabtree and Moss...rush Colin.)

    On defense: Force Tom Brady to hang on to the ball longer and to go deep over and over. (Blitz JPP, Aldon Smith, etc)

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