Ohrnberger: how's he looked?

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

T-rex armed, small, light, weak, JAG ish. Played in a weak conference. WTF is with this pick? How is he better than any other JAG they can get as an UDFA or on the waiver wire.

4th round picks can be gold, but you actually have to put some thought into it.

OTOH, I believe Mr. Sidbury is ALREADY currently unemployed...

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

T-rex armed, small, light, weak, JAG ish. Played in a weak conference. WTF is with this pick? How is he better than any other JAG they can get as an UDFA or on the waiver wire.

4th round picks can be gold, but you actually have to put some thought into it.

The Big Ten led all conferences with 44 draft choices in 2009. Orlando Pace, Steve Hutchinson, Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Steve Wisniewski...these are just a couple of Big Ten lineman off the top of my head. Ohrnberger was 3rd team All America last season; he was a productive college player. Whet

I'm sure they put zero though into the pick. They liked the spelling of his last name, so they took him.

Ohrnberger was 3rd team All America last season; he was a productive college player. Whether that turns into pro success remains to be seen, but this was not a pick that was determined by spinning a wheel or pinning a tail on a draft board.

As for "you actually have to put some thought into it"? Judging by some recent klinefan posts, this is a textbook case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

OTOH, I believe Mr. Sidbury is ALREADY currently unemployed...

Actually, as near as I can tell, he's still a Falcon.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

Way to go, genius. You successfully predicted that a 4th round draft pick wouldn't be starting in the preseason as a rookie. Someone get this guy a medal.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

Way to go, genius. You successfully predicted that a 4th round draft pick wouldn't be starting in the preseason as a rookie. Someone get this guy a medal.

The ignore feature is a wonderful thing, especially the one that's a Firefox addon. I get to see your retort without having to see the troll's comments.

 

[klinefan]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

Way to go, genius. You successfully predicted that a 4th round draft pick wouldn't be starting in the preseason as a rookie. Someone get this guy a medal.

I predicted he'd be cut and be lucky to make the PS.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Ohrnberger-how's he looked?

I predicted he'd be cut and be lucky to make the PS.

Lucky to make the PS? PS is worst-case scenario for him. Even if he does get released, I'd be mildly surprised if he even made it to the PS, since someone would probably claim him.

 

[mgteich]

If Orhnberger is cut, I suspect he will be on someone else's team. HOWEVER, if not, I would expect him NOT to accept our practice squad and go elsewhere where he would have a better potential future. After all, the patriots would have Connolly and Wendell ahead of him.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If Orhnberger is cut, I suspect he will be on someone else's team. HOWEVER, if not, I would expect him NOT to accept our practice squad and go elsewhere where he would have a better potential future. After all, the patriots would have Connolly and Wendell ahead of him.

Yes, there is the potential for him to be claimed, but I think once healthy and bulked up he'll be very competitive with Wendell and Connolly. He doesn't look bad, just rusty.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with you. HOWEVER, the place for a 4th round OL prospect who isn't ready to contribute is on the inactive roster, not on the cutting room floor. In every game, we have an inactive OL or two, depending on whether we carry 8 or 9 OL's.

IMHO, we need to make a decision now. I'm fine with cutting him. However, if Dante projects him to better than Connolly or better than Wendell, then he should be on the 53-man squad.

If the decision is that he doesn't project to be better than Connolly or better than Wendell, than I don't think it is a matter of whether he clears waivers so that he can be signed to our Practice Squad. If I were his agent, I would advise AGAINST signing on to the patriots Practice Squad if another team makes an offer to be on their squad.

Yes, there is the potential for him to be claimed, but I think once healthy and bulked up he'll be very competitive with Wendell and Connolly. He doesn't look bad, just rusty.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I agree with you. HOWEVER, the place for a 4th round OL prospect who isn't ready to contribute is on the inactive roster, not on the cutting room floor. In every game, we have an inactive OL or two, depending on whether we carry 8 or 9 OL's.

IMHO, we need to make a decision now. I'm fine with cutting him. However, if Dante projects him to better than Connolly or better than Wendell, then he should be on the 53-man squad.

If the decision is that he doesn't project to be better than Connolly or better than Wendell, than I don't think it is a matter of whether he clears waivers so that he can be signed to our Practice Squad. If I were his agent, I would advise AGAINST signing on to the patriots Practice Squad if another team makes an offer to be on their squad.

I think Ohrnberger is at the stage were projections are no longer valid. He was graded on the same player scale the veterans get measured against and was drafted. From here, he should be graded on the same daily basis as the other candidates and considered in that light.

Where your projection argument might have some validity is if they are very close (no more than one or two points across the board) and you graph a strong upward trend on his daily improvement, while factoring in Orhnberger's delayed start. If you tell me Wendell is an 86, Connolly an 85, and Ohrnberger an 83 with a bullet, then yes I project he will pass them. If his delayed start still has him below 80, but with the same upward trend on his graph, I can't project where he will level off - Wendell and Connolly are therefore more productive and the better choice.

 

[mgteich]

What you seem to be saying is that a mid round draft choice has less than one off-season to move ahead or close to his competition or be cut. This is a very reasonable position. However, this is not a position that the patriots have taken in the 30 years that I have followed the team. A 3rd or 4th round draft choice has always been given two off-seasons to develop, although occasionally a player has been red-shirted to the IR list. A first or second rounder has always been given three offseasons to develop.

As I have said, I expect Ohrnberger to be on the 53-man roster or the IR list, although I certainly could be wrong.

Belichick can do anything for the first time. But this would be a biggie. After all, Belichick traded Hobbs for two fifths in order to move those picks along for the 4th used for Ohrnberger. It seems wrong for Belichick to now give up on him in order to keep the worst of Wendell or Connolly.

I think Ohrnberger is at the stage were projections are no longer valid. He was graded on the same player scale the veterans get measured against and was drafted. From here, he should be graded on the same daily basis as the other candidates and considered in that light.

Where your projection argument might have some validity is if they are very close (no more than one or two points across the board) and you graph a strong upward trend on his daily improvement, while factoring in Orhnberger's delayed start. If you tell me Wendell is an 86, Connolly an 85, and Ohrnberger an 83 with a bullet, then yes I project he will pass them. If his delayed start still has him below 80, but with the same upward trend on his graph, I can't project where he will level off - Wendell and Connolly are therefore more productive and the better choice.

 

[patsox23]

There is absolutely NO WAY Ohrnberger gets cut. He either goes on IR or is a gameday inactive OL.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What you seem to be saying is that a mid round draft choice has less than one off-season to move ahead or close to his competition or be cut. This is a very reasonable position. However, this is not a position that the patriots have taken in the 30 years that I have followed the team. A 3rd or 4th round draft choice has always been given two off-seasons to develop, although occasionally a player has been red-shirted to the IR list. A first or second rounder has always been given three offseasons to develop.

As I have said, I expect Ohrnberger to be on the 53-man roster or the IR list, although I certainly could be wrong.

Belichick can do anything for the first time. But this would be a biggie. After all, Belichick traded Hobbs for two fifths in order to move those picks along for the 4th used for Ohrnberger. It seems wrong for Belichick to now give up on him in order to keep the worst of Wendell or Connolly.

The draft pick is no longer a factor. It's been spent, move on.

You seem to want to consider this as an undeveloped investment that must be protected because someone is going to steal it. That's like protecting a mix of flour and water because with a few more additives and some baking it will be bread, and people steal bread.

You have two "loaves" who have played well in preseason, have been there just about every day in Training Camp, and you've invested in them too, two seasons for Connolly and one for Wendell. You are arguing for a kid who hasn't been there in Camp, who is playing catch-up by BB's own statement, who has had substantially more limited reps in the preseason and looked like a rookie when he did play. Yes, you traded a starting CB for two picks which you traded for a late 4th to draft him. Yes, you'd like to keep all of your kids, but BB has already let a 4th round pick go in his first season - Brown - not that long ago. When does it make more sense to let him go, when there's a glut on the market or later in the season when you realize he's still not ready? Orhnberger was drafted needing to get stronger and put a few more lbs of muscle on his frame, he can do that on the Practice Squad as well as he can on the inactive list.

Is having a fourth round prospect claimed off waivers the absolute worst that can happen? Just what did NE lose when Brown was claimed off waivers by the Jests? If the kid isn't ready to play, what does it matter? If he is ready to play, and he's still behind the other two, what does it matter? This is no longer about a 4th round pick vs two undrafted guys, it's about which two C/G candidates are ready to start if one of the three starters goes down. The choice is Wendell, Connolly, Yates, Ohrnberger, and Bussey - two Day Two rookies and three developmental projects who Dante has reclaimed and brought to the point where they have been competitive. If you think Orhnberger is ahead of the two, or even one of the two I've selected, that's your guess - I'd put Yates ahead of him at this point, and Billy has been up and down in preseason.

 

[mgteich]

I will wait to see whether Belichick changes the patriot drafting and player methodology of the past 30 years in order to cut Ohrnberger. Of course, it could happen.

This has nothing to do with waivers. A player cut has the option to play for anyone that claims them. In addition they can play for anyone's Practice Squad. Such a player should be considered gone. Even if we were to sign a player to our Practice Squad, such a player could play for anyone in the league who would be willing to sign them.

If Ohrnberger were cut, I wouldn't expect us to give such an absolutely hopeless player an offer to the Practice Squad. For a player drafted in the 4th round to be cut, he would have to be aweful.

The draft pick is no longer a factor. It's been spent, move on.

You seem to want to consider this as an undeveloped investment that must be protected because someone is going to steal it. That's like protecting a mix of flour and water because with a few more additives and some baking it will be bread, and people steal bread.

You have two "loaves" who have played well in preseason, have been there just about every day in Training Camp, and you've invested in them too, two seasons for Connolly and one for Wendell. You are arguing for a kid who hasn't been there in Camp, who is playing catch-up by BB's own statement, who has had substantially more limited reps in the preseason and looked like a rookie when he did play. Yes, you traded a starting CB for two picks which you traded for a late 4th to draft him. Yes, you'd like to keep all of your kids, but BB has already let a 4th round pick go in his first season - Brown - not that long ago. When does it make more sense to let him go, when there's a glut on the market or later in the season when you realize he's still not ready? Orhnberger was drafted needing to get stronger and put a few more lbs of muscle on his frame, he can do that on the Practice Squad as well as he can on the inactive list.

Is having a fourth round prospect claimed off waivers the absolute worst that can happen? Just what did NE lose when Brown was claimed off waivers by the Jests? If the kid isn't ready to play, what does it matter? If he is ready to play, and he's still behind the other two, what does it matter? This is no longer about a 4th round pick vs two undrafted guys, it's about which two C/G candidates are ready to start if one of the three starters goes down. The choice is Wendell, Connolly, Yates, Ohrnberger, and Bussey - two Day Two rookies and three developmental projects who Dante has reclaimed and brought to the point where they have been competitive. If you think Orhnberger is ahead of the two, or even one of the two I've selected, that's your guess - I'd put Yates ahead of him at this point, and Billy has been up and down in preseason.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The draft pick is no longer a factor. It's been spent, move on.

Yes and no. Draft picks are evaluated on a sunk-cost basis, you are correct in that. But you also have to evaluate *why* they were drafted where they were drafted. A lot of players that get drafted in the mid rounds are first-day talents, but are somewhat raw prospects. If that's the case, then you're probably not going to cut them just because they're not ready after their first training camp, especially after they've been injured.

So at the end of the day, what it's really a matter of is how they're progressing vs. expectations. Without knowing whether or not Belichick expected him to be contributing by now, it's tough to make the call one way or the other. Either way, I'm not worried, since Belichick wouldn't have traded Hochstein if he was worried about interior OL depth. Someone must have stepped up to make him expendable.

 

[Deus Irae]

There is absolutely NO WAY Ohrnberger gets cut. He either goes on IR or is a gameday inactive OL.

Will David Patten make this team?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I will wait to see whether Belichick changes the patriot drafting and player methodology of the past 30 years in order to cut Ohrnberger. Of course, it could happen.

This has nothing to do with waivers. A player cut has the option to play for anyone that claims them. In addition they can play for anyone's Practice Squad. Such a player should be considered gone. Even if we were to sign a player to our Practice Squad, such a player could play for anyone in the league who would be willing to sign them.

If Ohrnberger were cut, I wouldn't expect us to give such an absolutely hopeless player an offer to the Practice Squad. For a player drafted in the 4th round to be cut, he would have to be aweful.

"Hopeless?" Let's try to discuss our differing perspectives without the hyperbole.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Either way, I'm not worried, since Belichick wouldn't have traded Hochstein if he was worried about interior OL depth. Someone must have stepped up to make him expendable.

Clearly, and based on the looks I've gotten in preseason, not to mention the Training Camp reports of who played when, Wendell and Connolly have stepped up and moved ahead of Billy Yates, who has been ahead of Hochstein for two seasons.

 

[mgteich]

It is not hyperbole. It is my opinion.

My opinion is that I would not expect the patriots to change its long standing strategy of giving 3th and 4th round draft choice at least one season to develop unless the player is absolutely hopeless.

"Hopeless?" Let's try to discuss our differing perspectives without the hyperbole.