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Ohio Mayor calls for the end of public sector unions

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    As much as anyone would like to see it happen, there is no way it will. Police and Fire will not allow it.

    There are better things to discuss than fantasy scenarios, IMO. Well, maybe not this week, but...
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The taxpayer doesn't pay for unions. Unions are funded out of member dues. Unions, like Chambers of Commerce or shareholders or any other group, organize in the interest of their membership. Cities and towns may need to get tougher with unions, even if it results in strikes, but getting rid of public sector unions is not only most likely unconstitutional, it's unconscionable. Also, taxpayers can afford the services provided by government, but taxpayers seem to want something for nothing.
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    PR are you reading this? Patters is right, and as an economist i can't believe you didn't know this.
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Are you listening Flex? Patters is not right here. Of course taxpayers PAY for the cost of union workers. We don't pay their union dues, but wtf does that have to do with the higher cost of employing union workers?

    It's a fact it's much less expensive to hire non-union workers than union workers. What the hell do you guys think the fuss is all about? In case you both have blinders on, Cities and states across the nation are trying to negotiate with & are fighting with unions.

    Do you guys read the papers or watch news? Hear about the town in RI that fired every single one of it's union teachers? Look it up man!

    Personally, if I was a town mayor and our unions refused to concede, I'd have no problem getting rid of them if that was the right and prudent financial thing to do. Its conscionable to me.

    Or maybe you two believe TAXES should be raised every time a new union contract is signed?

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PR, Your post asked if we should eliminate public sector unions because they are too costly. Perhaps that's not the question you meant to ask?

    Do you favor outlawing unions? I don't.

    Do you think government should refuse to negotiate with unions and and if necessary replace striking workers?

    I don't think unions pay as well as you think they do. Union jobs pay well. They are solid and reasonably secure jobs, but most people in government aren't earning 6 figures or even over $50 k. Paying someone in the mid 30s to low 40s is not outrageous, and offering a pension plan isn't either. Many of the jobs require Master's Degrees, many of them involve risk, and many of them involve skills that are unique to government, where old records are actually often in use and thousands of people are tracked in some respect. Sure, there are probably people who are overpaid and underworked, and I have no objection to trying to find those people. But, do you ever notice how conservatives think in such generalities when it comes to budget? They don't offer specific cuts or specific complaints. Your post seems to blame all unions for all workers getting too much money and benefits. Most workers don't get too much money. You don't usually find government employees living in the "best" neighborhoods in Boston. They live solid among the middle class. I think if you replaced union workers, the savings wouldn't be that great, assuming you wanted capable workers.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure, just like taxpayers don't pay police and firemen. Cities do. :rolleyes:
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    It's also a fact that it's much less expensive to pay both union and non-union workers under the table - thus taking even more dollars from the tax pool and increasing the burden on those of us who DO pay taxes.

    It's also a fact that it's much less expensive to hire illegal aliens than non-union workers.

    It's even cheaper to start a sweatshop and hire young children......which is one of the many things that unions worked hard to ensure never happened again.

    I hope some of those things sound good to you, PR, because without unions that's exactly what's going to happen.

    Unless you have a better idea, of course.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have to join the liberals on the Union Issue, Ruthless Greedy Management created America's Unions they did so by creating "the need for them" the workers needed to be protected from Management who at the time treated their Work Horses and their Machines better than they did their human employees.

    No longer did the working man have to fear the little weasel foreman who could fire you if he didn't like the way you walked, the Union brought Paid Vacations, Seniority, Paid Holidays, Higher Wages, Job Security, Decent Working Conditions then during the late forties the Unions brought Health Care and Pensions all these things were Security For The Common Working Man.

    Unions are by no means Perfect especially mine (Teamsters) but I slept good at night, I quit school in the ninth grade (Rindge Tech Cambridge) and never looked back, I have owned three homes, new cars, motorhome, month long vacations, cruise's, raised a large family, health care and have been collecting a Teamster Pension since retirement in 1987.

    I stopped listening to Limbaugh years ago because of his Union Bashing.

    Get This
    People Who Are Not Union Hate Them
    People Who Are Union Love Them
    Thats Life
  10. DarrylS

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    Unions are good, common ground.. unions are not perfect, but meet a great need.

    There would be no need for unions if there was fair and unbiased leadership, when I started for the state found out that people could buy their way in to jobs and start to suck on the big breast of state milk in some cushy job.. unions pushed for civil service exams, the test was living though all the political hacks until they left or were gotten rid of..

    Know quite a few in unions who used to lobby for contributing to their own 401K accounts instead of the state system.. it was not allowed legally, so they had to continue to pay into the existing system..
  11. lostjumper

    lostjumper Rookie

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    But what do unions do now? Make sure some teacher gets a 400K per year pension? Make sure that the state union workers in my city are getting a 5% raise when almost every private sector company, including mine is have pay freezes, benefits lost, and even reductions in some places? Are they there to help make the workplace safer?

    Unions were needed and served their places back in the early 20th century. They helped make the workplace safe for workers, helped get them appropriate wages, etc. Now, they just gouge the private sector and taxpayers. We have OSHA, we have plenty of state and federal regulatory agencies to keep the workplace safe. And now most union members make more than the private sector when you include benefits. It will have to change soon because the current model is unsustainable.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can agree, nothing is forever and all things change, in my day the Union was needed to protect me from my bosses.
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    I don't know where you live but you might want to consider moving to Chicago. My son is a city employee there. His wife is a teacher in The Chicago Public School system.

    This is what his union agreed to last year:

    Laborers Union Local 1001 signed a two-year deal Monday agreeing to the same cost-cutting measures that 40 other unions have also accepted, such as 24 unpaid furlough days a year, comp time instead of overtime pay, and unpaid city holidays.

    They are also phasing out their health insurance and he pays into a 401K just like the rest of us do.....there's no big fat pension waiting at the end of the rainbow for him - or for his wife.

    I'd really like to see something that says a teacher anywhere gets a 400K yearly pension since as far as I can tell from googling most teachers get a percentage of their highest yearly salary.....which is usually under $50,000.00 a year.

    Daley Lays Off 431 City Workers After Unions Don't Blink

    Teacher Salaries by State | Employment Spot

    If you're gonna make it up - make it believable, please....or back it up with something concrete.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Teachers getting a 400K pension.. maybe someone like Billy Bulger maybe, but for the most part public pensions do not come close to this..

    Having been on the other side, unions are extremely important.. in the public sector they define rules on how to behave on both sides .. public administrations continually work to subvert the agreed upon rules, and unions keep them honest and versa vica.. in the past 5 years in RI they have continually given back.. for example, the retirement age for state employees and teachers has been raised to 59 years old, minimally 28 years of service.. it used to be anyone could retire when they achieved 28 years of service.. increased health care contributions.. reductions in work force.. change in job descriptions etc..

    Unions are often demonized, and sometimes rightly so, but without them all the state positions would be filled with political hacks who "buy" their way into these systems, because someone knows the proverbial"guy" and buys tickets to some obscure fundraiser... and is not qualified to do the job.

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