Oh my God! Felger had an excellent point

[wdkantro2]

Is it a crime if he doesn't? Is it even wrong if he doesn't?

Considering Moss, Stallworth, Welker and all the other new guys went, it makes Samuel look pretty damn bad.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Is it a crime if he doesn't? Is it even wrong if he doesn't?

You’re kidding on this right? This is sarcasm right? A joke?

Samuel talks about getting disrespected but doesn't go to a teammates funeral?

Um yes that is wrong, VERY WRONG!

IMO get rid of him, he's a selfish @$$.

 

[Gopats!!!]

You’re kidding on this right? This is sarcasm right? A joke?

Samuel talks about getting disrespected but doesn't go to a teammates funeral?

Um yes that is wrong, VERY WRONG!

IMO get rid of him, he's a selfish @$$.

Remember, Asante's tattoo says "get paid" -- It doesn't say anything about giving a crap about teammates.

I think this "Hold Out Until Week 10" talk is absolute crap. He knows how much money he has to lose. It is all about money. If he holds out until week 10 he will probably not be in the best of football shape and won't be at his best. He will lose the money by not playing, and if he doesn't perform in his limited time then he will hurt himself when he finally decides to sign a contract.

Of course, he may be thinking he will be able to be in top form by the time the play offs are here, and by waiting until week 10 he can avoid getting worn down while the team is slugging it out with the rest of the NFL.

It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds. He's got talent -- how much I don't know. I would like to have him back at a reasonable price. If not, hopefully BB can swindle some idiotic team like we did with the branch deal.

 

[primetime]

(Did he carefully adjust all those past contracts as percentages of the salary cap at the time? Or as a percentage of new contracts written to comparable players at the time? Or heck, even the cost of living?)

Cost of living? I know Boston is expensive these days, but I think Asante could get by quite nicely on $8M, thank you very much.

The whines of these overpaid athletes just continues to distance themselves from the average fan who would give anything to just be playing pro football, let alone making millions. Give us all a break, Asante. You're the product of BB's system, and before last year you were nothing special.

 

[Caspir]

Cost of living? I know Boston is expensive these days, but I think Asante could get by quite nicely on $8M, thank you very much.

The whines of these overpaid athletes just continues to distance themselves from the average fan who would give anything to just be playing pro football, let alone making millions. Give us all a break, Asante. You're the product of BB's system, and before last year you were nothing special.

Yea, yea, you'd play for peanuts, rah rah, the fans are being disrespected. The rally cry of people who suck at sports.

 

[primetime]

Yea, yea, you'd play for peanuts, rah rah, the fans are being disrespected. The rally cry of people who suck at sports.

Oh ok, Mr. Pro Athlete.

 

[patchick]

Cost of living? I know Boston is expensive these days, but I think Asante could get by quite nicely on $8M, thank you very much.

Of course. All I was saying is that it's inappropriate to compare contracts across NFL eras -- and a new NFL era began in 2006.

It's always tempting to say "what, isn't $XXX enough?" But no contract negotiation is ever about "enough." (Who calculates whether they deserve a raise by adding up their core household expenses and judging whether the current salary covers it?) The problem to me isn't that $8 mil should be "enough," but that the franchise tag is just part of the game. It's not dirty pool. Your team has the option to retain your services for one year at a hefty price tag. Suck it up, enjoy the cash, and a year from now move on. That goes for you too, Lance Briggs, and all your brethren.

 

[RI Pats Fan]

Players need to start on taking the franchise tag out of the CBA if they complain about it that much. But I guess it's only those very few who it'd apply to that would care to raise that point at the meetings.

I agree with Caspir though, the whole "play for peanuts" thing is ridiculous. It's a business, both ways. We're fans but we're mostly consumers. If Samuel doesn't want to do business, that's his call.

I'm surprised somebody hasn't played the "I went to Iraq for X amount of dollars and he's complaining about Y millions" argument again and again.... and again.
As if they wouldn't try and get twice the money for their own job if they thought they had a chance at it.

Jaded? Perhaps. Realistic? Most definately.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

It is this logic that will lead to losing Samuel. It makes absolutely no difference what past patriots were paid. What matters is the current market and what the patriots believe his value is.

Our #3 TE is pocketing over $3M this year.
Our #3 WR is pocketing over $6M this year.

Surely, this is crazy! Surely, we've never paid our backup TE's and receivers that much. Had we considered what we paid in the past, we'd probably not have signed these two or Stallworth. We wouldn't be a better team, but we would have treated these players more fairly, within the context of what we paid past players.

As with Branch and Givens, I am not saying that the patriots should offer more than they have. Heck, if I were in the front office he'd have been traded already. I guess I don't have tthe pateince to wait until the end of July when he will likely be traded.

Me, I don't understand why we didn't use our draft choices. Branch and Hughes would look awfully good right about now, or Branch and Bush.

who is the pats 6 Million dollar 3rd wr?

 

[mgteich]

Almost all players that have completed their rookie contract get to go out the open market. They get to choose who to negotiate with any team, and work out the best deal they can (including FO and city). They are FREE agents. They have different priorities. Some want the money. Some want to start. Some want to play for winning teams. Some want a shot a Super Bowl. Some want to be wanted (to be respected). Some want NOT to play for certain teams or live in certain cities. Some want consult their families, and their family's views are important.

A very few players, with a very few votes do NOT have the same rights under the CBA. The union has chosen to care about their few voices. These players do not get to choose, any more than rookies do.

We all say that Samuel should be happy to play for $7.9M. Perhaps we should instite a salary schedule and get rid of free agency. Why not? As long as what matters is not choice. As long as what matters is the money and not where a players want to play, there should be no objection to a union scale of salaries based on performance and years in the league.

Maybe it's my bias living here in NH. Maybe it's my bias in just finding out that one of my high school class is running for President as a Libertarian. But I really do believe that we should LIVE FREE! I understand that we need to limit rookie choices. But there should be free agency for ALL, after the terms of the rookies and subsequent contracts have been met.

That's just my two cents. I get furious with players like Branch and Seymour who breach or threaten to breach their contracts.

 

[tombonneau]

The holdout? Forget it, that would cost Samuel roughly $5m with no guarantee he won't be franchised again - something the Pats will never promise. Even if the Pat's did let him go next year and Samuel got a big deal somewhere else, he'd probably never recoup the $5m he lost sitting out. If Samuel makes up his mind he'll have to leave to get his money, then more practical tactics would be to show up and try to be just enough of a pain in the keester that BB has no choice but to run him out of town.

This nails it on the head. There is NO WAY he holds out. Asante is just postering, trying to be divisive enough to create an irreperable rift and force a trade, same as Ty Law tried unsuccessfully (and far more vocally) to do. If it didn't work for Ty, it won't work for the Son of Law.

Also, your point about Asante not giving up that $5m is spot on. No way he leaves that money on the table.

Because there is no guarantee NE won't just franchise him again.

Even if he didn't get franchised again and was allowed to hit FA, to sit out would basically be the equivalent of taking out a $5m injury insurance policy.

Because after he plays this year, he is likely gone and getting a big contract.

So realistically, there are two choices (assuming he doesn't get franchised next year):

A) Make $8m this year, hit FA and get big pay day

B) Sit out 10 games, makes $3m, hit FA and get big pay

What isn't factored in here is playing a full solid year will make his pay day bigger in option A than sitting out 10 games would in option B.

So really, it makes 0.00% sense financialy for Asante to hold out this year, unless he really feels its worth $5m to not expose himself to injury for 10 games.

 

[Michael]

One that all of us missed.

Talking tonight on Fox's Two Loonie's show (yes, I broke down and watched it), he points out that one reason Samuel is not getting much support is that he is treating an $8 million dollar year paycheck as an insult. He then listed all the solid Patriot players who never got $8 million in any year. It was quite a list.

Not used to Felger actually thinking something out instead of saying whatever will shock people most and make them listen to his radio show to see what outrageous thing he'll say next.

Good job, Felgie.

Except that point has been talked about before. So don't start giving Felger too much credit just yet.

 

[spacecrime]

Except that point has been talked about before. So don't start giving Felger too much credit just yet.

I'm not a Felger fan, but have to give credit where it's due. Show me where we talked about it and I'll retract the credit.

 

[Michael]

I'm not a Felger fan, but have to give credit where it's due. Show me where we talked about it and I'll retract the credit.

You may not be a Felger fan but, if you listened to WEEI or Channel 4 in Boston you would have heard that point brought up long ago.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm not a Felger fan, but have to give credit where it's due. Show me where we talked about it and I'll retract the credit.

You may not be a Felger fan but, if you listened to WEEI or Channel 4 in Boston you would have heard that point brought up long ago.

Fer Cripes sake, will you please read? Is there something about the word "here" that you don't understand?

Felger made a good point, one that was not discussed here. That's all I said. If you don't like it, fine. Log out and listen to EEI.

 

[Pats726]

A) Make $8m this year, hit FA and get big pay day

B) Sit out 10 games, makes $3m, hit FA and get big pay

What isn't factored in here is playing a full solid year will make his pay day bigger in option A than sitting out 10 games would in option B.

I agree that while he is protecting himself for injury in B, he's also gambling that when he returns that he'll make an impact in those last games.
What if the Patriots are solid in the backfield and he's just retuening and being used sparingly? I don't see that leading to a big big payday....If he came back and was injured..that would be different..but I see the former as a possibility. Why? If AS decides he's a no show..the pats will move on and solve their problems without him. As has been said many times NO one player will hold the team hostage. So he has more chance to not be involved much with this long hold out..seems like this has a chance of a losing proposition not only this year but next as well.
AS wants to make noise now to get traded and get that big contract...if he holds out..it may be a dwindling money situation. But I wonder if he understands how much he might lose??
I also wonder if he was quiet about this whole thing if it might not have been wiser...and I am not talking about his position..but of going public. I tend to think that once a player starts spouting off in public, it's all out in the open and he's harder to shop around...that is if the Pats wish to do that.

 

[Michael]

Fer Cripes sake, will you please read? Is there something about the word "here" that you don't understand?

Felger made a good point, one that was not discussed here. That's all I said. If you don't like it, fine. Log out and listen to EEI.

Wow, calm down. All I said is you're reluctant to give Felger credit and I'm saying you don't have to because it wasn't his original observation or comment.

 

[tombonneau]

I agree that while he is protecting himself for injury in B, he's also gambling that when he returns that he'll make an impact in those last games.
What if the Patriots are solid in the backfield and he's just retuening and being used sparingly? I don't see that leading to a big big payday....If he came back and was injured..that would be different..but I see the former as a possibility. Why? If AS decides he's a no show..the pats will move on and solve their problems without him. As has been said many times NO one player will hold the team hostage. So he has more chance to not be involved much with this long hold out..seems like this has a chance of a losing proposition not only this year but next as well.
AS wants to make noise now to get traded and get that big contract...if he holds out..it may be a dwindling money situation. But I wonder if he understands how much he might lose??
I also wonder if he was quiet about this whole thing if it might not have been wiser...and I am not talking about his position..but of going public. I tend to think that once a player starts spouting off in public, it's all out in the open and he's harder to shop around...that is if the Pats wish to do that.

Exactly. Option B for AS has a very finite and specific upside. He would basically be banking that that Pats would welcome him back with open arms in Week 11, and he would hit the ground running and be the exact same DB he was about 10 months prior.

He'd resume his near Pro-Bowl caliber play (after a HUGE layoff) and collect a big paycheck from some other team in 08.

I think most would agree this is not a highly likely scenario. I'd think the Pats would in fact be more likely to deactive him, depending on their record and their current level of secondary play. (Not saying they would or I would encourage that, just saying it's more likely IMO.)

 

[spacecrime]

All I said is you're reluctant to give Felger credit

I'm not reluctant to give Felger credit. He deserved it. I happily give him credit.

Please read the following, as this is about the fourth time I've tried to explain it to you: "Felger made a point that was not discussed here on Pats fans and I was impressed."

That's it, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, will you please go haunt someone else? Felger had a good point. Get over it, go away, and leave me alone. Your fascination with me is disturbing.

 

[DW Toys]

I saw that show also,and this is the comment I found interesting,though I'm no contract guru but some here def are:
Felger brought up the past Shawn Alexander situation and how the Hawks worked it by promising not to franchise him the following year.He liked that,they agreed,and the Hawks went on to the SB with Alexander.
Felger's thought was to offer Samuels a promise of no franchise tag next year,let him rip it this season,then let him go because Felger (among others) sees Samuels as pretty much a one-hit-wonder of sorts;not literally of course, just not as great as advertised during his contract year last season.
The consensus was to find a way to keep him this year because we need him,but after that let him go.

I am sorry. I just don't get it. We just rent him for the year and let him go?
We might get a comp pick? No way. I try to get something now while he is hot not after he has a crap year in 2008.
What am I missing here? We should get at the least a first rounder for him. He is like Woody. Hot F/A that basically flopped after NE. It goes on McGinnis, Patton, Chattam, Andruzzi and more I am missing.Yes Adam and maybe Graham was a mistake. I think Branch was just average. Who knows about Givens. I think he'll regret it.
I's franchise his skinny butt in 2008 too.
How about getting aggressive and telling his agent Shavers if he doesn't get on the field we franchise him in 2008! Don't let him dictate!
Let him sit for $16million dollars. This will officially cure the smart ass hold outs forever.
DW Toys.