Official Game 4 thread Celtics vs Pistons

[Stokes]

Terrible 4th quarter, bad offensive set after bad offensive set. Guys were giving up open looks (Rondo, Garnett), while others were shooting terrible shots (Pierce, Cassell). Their D fell apart this game as well. Frustrating loss, and why the hell didn't we see Eddie House instead of Cassell? He plays better D, and has a legit 3 point shot. Argh, pisses me off.

 

[IcyPatriot]

MY guess is we will see Pierce playing Point Forward more in these next games. Cassell belongs on the bench ... I would rather see House in there with Pierce playing the point like he did against the Cavs.

 

[BradyManny]

MY guess is we will see Pierce playing Point Forward more in these next games. Cassell belongs on the bench ... I would rather see House in there with Pierce playing the point like he did against the Cavs.

I don't see the point in that. They are running the offense through Pierce and KG as it is, and they are rendering Rondo useless by doing so. This isolation stuff is infuriating, the offense was never this static during the season.

They've stopped moving the ball, and its been a problem throughout the playoffs. I'm sick of seeing people blame the playoff inconsistency on Rondo, Perk, the bench or Doc. It falls squarely and 100% on the shoulders of the "big 3", who haven't been able to consistently beat their defenders and who have not been able to pass or move the ball effectively.

At this point, I think their best bet is to let Rondo loose and have the offense run through him. He's taken over two games this postseason, which is more than any of the big 3 have.

 

[Stokes]

I agree the offense has gotten too static (although I thought it was much better game 3 of this series), but the problem is that the Pistons are daring Rondo to shoot open jumpers and he's not doing so. He needs to take those open shots, or they need to take him out, because if he's not shooting the open looks it basically allows Detroit to play 5 on 4 defense. If Eddie House is in there you've got a guy that can knock down the 3 when Pierce or Garnett draw double coverage.

Also notice how the offense totally stagnates when Cassell is in there? Its like Pierce and Garnett know they have to take it themselves if they want to get a shot, because if they pass it back to Sam they KNOW the shot is getting launched from wherever he happens to be.

 

[BradyManny]

I agree the offense has gotten too static (although I thought it was much better game 3 of this series), but the problem is that the Pistons are daring Rondo to shoot open jumpers and he's not doing so. He needs to take those open shots, or they need to take him out, because if he's not shooting the open looks it basically allows Detroit to play 5 on 4 defense.

No, that's not really the problem. That's what the announcers on ESPN have said over and over and that's probably why you believe it. For some reason, they have been reluctant to criticize the "new big 3" as well.

Rondo has been hitting those jumpers fairly consistently throughout the playoffs - as he did throughout the year, but it's actually besides the point. The C's are sticking him over on the weakside and by the time the ball gets to him, a Pistons player has rotated over, so in fact, they are not "daring him to shoot" as Van Gundy has probably erroneously said 50 times this postseason. They are leaving him open to double the ball as they would any other man on the weakside. Their defensive approach doesn't change with Eddie House or Cassell or anybody else in there, nor would it. The C's often employ the same aggressive defense as well, and they do regardless of how good the Pistons can shoot, and the Pistons do have 5 good outside shooters on the floor with their starting 5.

The problem is that the Celtics are not passing the ball enough. The ball goes to KG or Pierce on the wing, and the offense stops there. They need to move the ball regardless of whether someone coming off a screen has a wide open look or not, you have to run the offense, you can't just be static. Ball movement will create open shots, not mismatches.

The only clear offensive mismatch the C's have is Rondo's speed is better than Billups, injured or healthy, and they aren't taking advantage of that b/c, as I said, they are just dumping the ball to KG/Pierce on the wing and moving Rondo to the weakside. Doc knows better than this, and so do Pierce and KG - I don't know how they went 48 minutes last nite with the same crappy offensive game plan and execution.

 

[Stokes]

No, that's not really the problem. That's what the announcers on ESPN have said over and over and that's probably why you believe it. For some reason, they have been reluctant to criticize the "new big 3" as well.

That's not what I've been seeing, it was especially evident in game 2. Rondo has time to take an open jumper when they dish out to him, and too often he's driving the ball back in to coverage. Pierce made a LOT of bad decisions last night, of course he also made a lot of bad decisions in game 7 of the Cleveland series, with the difference being his bad shots went in, and he was celebrated as the hero.

Rondo has been hitting those shots all year, but he's been gun-shy at times in this series.

 

[BradyManny]

That's not what I've been seeing, it was especially evident in game 2. Rondo has time to take an open jumper when they dish out to him, and too often he's driving the ball back in to coverage. Pierce made a LOT of bad decisions last night, of course he also made a lot of bad decisions in game 7 of the Cleveland series, with the difference being his bad shots went in, and he was celebrated as the hero.

Rondo has been hitting those shots all year, but he's been gun-shy at times in this series.

It was slightly more of an issue in the Cavs series, I agree he's turned down a shot or two, but I think most of it is a result of a) Doc killing his confidence by playing Cassell way too much last series b) the whole offensive flow has been out of whack at times.

Either way, I think Rondo turning down a shot or two has been such a minor issue this series. Again, they really aren't treating Rondo any differently than if it were Allen sitting open on the weak side. The Pistons D rotates fast enough to get there anyway, particularly when the offense isn't moving the ball fast enough - which the C's aren't, and which is their problem. Rondo's strength is penetrating, and he should be allowed to do that.

 

[Kontradiction]

The rest of the series plays out like this:

Game 5: Winner - Celtics

Game 6: Winner - Pistons

Game 7: Winner - Celtics

I'm actually astonished the Celts finally won a road game. But now that they did it, they stole the HCA right back from the Pistons. The Celts aren't unstoppable at home but I think they had an emotional letdown in Game 4 after that Game 3 romping and just got decimated. Expected them to come out firing in Game 5, lose Game 6 by two, and just get by the Pistons in Game 7.

 

[Char2na]

Is it just me or was every play in the fourth quarter drive to the hoop, fake the shot, and throw it away? I was loosing my mind. Also, I wouldnt blame just Rondo for giving up the open shot. I don't think anyone wanted to shoot. Except for cassell of course. And KG, but only when hes in the situation for that awesome double coverage no look fadeaway that went in one every 20 tries.

 

[patriotspride]

That's not what I've been seeing, it was especially evident in game 2. Rondo has time to take an open jumper when they dish out to him, and too often he's driving the ball back in to coverage. Pierce made a LOT of bad decisions last night, of course he also made a lot of bad decisions in game 7 of the Cleveland series, with the difference being his bad shots went in, and he was celebrated as the hero.

Rondo has been hitting those shots all year, but he's been gun-shy at times in this series.

i agree with you stokes. rondo has been passing down far to many open shots. the defense doesnt respect his ability to score on a consistent basis. this allows the piston defense to play 5 on 4. when he does shoot he does a good job at knocking them down. for some reason hes seems to lack confidence in his scoring ability.

 

[patriotspride]

The rest of the series plays out like this:

Game 5: Winner - Celtics

Game 6: Winner - Pistons

Game 7: Winner - Celtics

I'm actually astonished the Celts finally won a road game. But now that they did it, they stole the HCA right back from the Pistons. The Celts aren't unstoppable at home but I think they had an emotional letdown in Game 4 after that Game 3 romping and just got decimated. Expected them to come out firing in Game 5, lose Game 6 by two, and just get by the Pistons in Game 7.

my lawyer told me once there are no absolutes in the law. the same applies to sports. logic and common sense doesnt always apply to sports.

 

[Stokes]

Is it just me or was every play in the fourth quarter drive to the hoop, fake the shot, and throw it away? I was loosing my mind. Also, I wouldnt blame just Rondo for giving up the open shot. I don't think anyone wanted to shoot. Except for cassell of course. And KG, but only when hes in the situation for that awesome double coverage no look fadeaway that went in one every 20 tries.

I was absolutely livid in the 4th quarter. A bunch of drive and dish when they should have been finishing, then a bunch of crappy shots by Pierce when he should have been passing. The way they played they should have gotten blown out that game. Let's hope for a better showing tommorrow night. And putting someone in there that wants to shoot and can (Eddie House!). Rondo and Ray Allen can but don't want to, Cassell wants to but can't, and House sits on the bench and watches.

 

[otis p. driftwood]

I was absolutely livid in the 4th quarter. A bunch of drive and dish when they should have been finishing, then a bunch of crappy shots by Pierce when he should have been passing. The way they played they should have gotten blown out that game. Let's hope for a better showing tommorrow night. And putting someone in there that wants to shoot and can (Eddie House!). Rondo and Ray Allen can but don't want to, Cassell wants to but can't, and House sits on the bench and watches.

Yeah...I haven't been much of an Eddie House fan through the season, but the way he's played lately has shown that he has more desire and mental toughness than some of the other guys. Rondo and Garnett just need to take the damn open shot and stop trying to pass the ball. Christ I'm sick of that.

Here I go...:bricks: