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Offensive Personnel Stuff: Interesting notes

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Oct 26, 2009.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Reiss' breakdowns of formations and groupings is just awesome.

    Things that stuck out to me:

    Sam Aiken plays more WR snaps (51) than Welker (50) or Moss (45) and scored the first TD of his 7 year NFL career. I think he's becoming a legit part of this offense, though he'll probably get squeezed for playing time by...

    Brandon Tate. ONE WEEK off of the PUP list, not only did Tate return some kicks, but played 23 snaps at WR. 23 snaps?? Not only that, but I'd have to say that the kid could have made some big plays if he was a first or second read, he seems to manage separation fairly easily.

    Hoyer gets his second week of mop-up duty (and may there be many more) and looked pretty good. Is our back-up QB more poised than some of the starters in this league? At any rate, it's becoming clearer how he stole the job from O'Connell and Walter.

    Ben Watson grabs another TD. Is it possible that on this pace, he becomes a name-brand Tight End by season's end? Another couple of good games and I'd get this guy extended. He's really showing up in the passing game and his blocking is already better than several big name TE's.

    We've talked at great length about the defense, and they look great. But this offense is slowly re-tooling before our very eyes.

    The run game seems to need work, but I have to think the run didn't feel very important to those drawing up the game-plan. I'd like to see more 2 RB sets, but maybe that's going to have to wait for Taylor and Morris to trickle back in. The ground game is going to be important in keeping the passing game alive now that "training camp" is over.

    Below are Reiss links for personnel groupings and snaps played on offense.

    New England Patriots Blog - Patriots used varied offensive packages - ESPN Boston

    New England Patriots Blog - Downs played by offensive personnel - ESPN Boston
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  2. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No offense to Sam, but I still think the guy is just a healthy body at this point. He's more reliable than Galloway - which doesn't say much - and Tate (at this point in time, which also doesn't say much). Aiken is not much of a route runner, doesn't get much separation, and isn't very quick. He is fast & big, and is almost like a tight end in a way. His TD was a great play, but let's put it this way - in an ideal situation, Aiken only plays special teams and never sees the field on offense.
     
  3. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My take...
    Amazing to see the # of plays Tate had out there. Obviously he'd impressed the coaches with his knowlege of the playbook.

    Slater 4 plays at WR. Just when we had the ST ace pegged as a safety. Versitile or simply searching for SOMETHING he can actually do besides STs. Heh.

    Baker more plays than Watson. Probably for pass protection. Noticed him helping SeaBass on the pass rush.

    Agree that Watson is contributing well this season.

    Aiken ran the WR screen exceptionally well. Watched him 'sell' the psss route, then step back and run the screen. GREAT job runing the route.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  4. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That would be true if he was playing 30 snaps a game, but I think he's turning into a reliable passing option and he obviously brings great blocking to the screen game as well. I think Tate and Edelman as he returns will relegate Sam to an occasional WR, which probably makes him more effective on STs, but after the last couple of games, I can't downplay him as an "emergencies only" player on O. He seems like a solid YAC guy as long as he isn't targeted too often.

    Slater at WR even 4 times did surprise me. I still don't get how that kid's elbow isn't messed up.
     
  5. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    BTW kudos to Reiss, (he's the best, and will be...until he catches the media "its all about me" disease) Those stats are so very informative to real football fans. It tells us more about stuff we can't possibly absorb just watching the game. IMHO they should be part of the main story every time, rather than just a random blog entry that someone has to struggle to find.

    Again, good stuff Mike, and Thanks for posting it JSN
     
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I certainly agree about the blocking - but how is he a reliable passing option at this point? Like you said, he was out there for 50 snaps - he caught one ball, and it was on a broken play.

    For instance, if we still had Gaffney, I doubt Aiken would see the field at all save for a few wideout screens and a few plays to block. He's only caught 41% of the passes thrown his way this season, and he currently had a -47% DVOA going into yesterday. In short, he might be an OK fill-in, but he's a very unproductive wide receiver, and its an area that needs to be improved upon by Tate & Edelman.
     
  7. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm not positive we're disagreeing. Maybe we are?

    I'd need to see a comparison of targets to drops, but I bet they're similar to Moss. (Welker has a deal with some evil being for stick-um to ooze from his pores)

    I also agree about Gaffney, and that's likely been the most noticeable loss from last year, personnel-wise... which is weird when you think about who's moved on. Still I think we're about a game better than many predicted us to be entering the bye in the pre-season and hopefully Edelman and Tate will come in and be difference makers. Imagine if we could effectively limit Moss' reps a bit, making him MORE effective?

    There's also some piece of mind knowing we have another WR who has at least shown signs of being ready/willing/able on the P-Squad.
     
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I don't think we are disagreeing very much at all - I perhaps just feel a little more sense of urgency to see Tate & Edelman ultimately step up and replace Aiken by the time winter rolls around and the big games come up.

    Aiken is only credited with 1 drop this season - I feel like I've seen more than that, but I guess a drop is a little subjective. In terms of targets caught, Moss has caught 64% and Welker is at 74% (not sure if those #s include yesterday yet). I'd sum it up this way - Aiken has some clear strengths, but also some clear weaknesses, and I'd generally prefer our #3 to be a more well rounded player.

    I, for one, sold Gaffney's worth short. I thought we could replace him pretty easily, and I was mistaken. In hindsight, I'd love to have a solid - albeit unspectacular - player like that back.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the end, stats and reps don't matter on a fan board. What matters is our own perceptions, biases and binkies. Most posters will simply ignore the fact that Aiken is looking better every week and had more reps than Welker.

    Personally, I think that Brady and Belichick are fine with Aiken as the #3 receiver, although they are more than happy if one of the rooks beats him out for reps.

    I think that it is extremely likely that Tate will develop enough in the next few weeks that he will be a solid #3/#4 receivers as well as a solid kick returner. We should should all note that this is Edelman's job description. Aiken will always be active as a returner.

    Barring injuries, I believe the eventual choice for the active roster will be between Tate and Edelman. I suspect that Tate will use his time well and will be the choice, even when Edelman is healthy.
     
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Aside from that long TD, which was really a product of terrible coverage and overpursuit, Aiken didn't do much at all. Not really sure where you're seeing improvements, unless you're talking about his special teams play.
     
  11. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    51 snaps v. 50 snaps is a tie for all practical purposes (especially since Reiss' counts include snaps nullified by penalties).

    FWIW, I see it shaking out as KR Tate, PR Edelman, ST demon Aiken, especially if the Pats continue to go with just two TEs on the roster.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  12. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did everyone miss Aiken's excellent job of selling, then runing the receiver screen for 11-12 yards???
     
  13. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Another interesting tidbit is that Wes Welker is 10th in YAC in the NFL.

    TENTH PLACE. That would be respectable if he'd played every game. He's missed two and he's tenth? That's excellent. He's 8th in the AFC in YAC and Faulk is 17th in the AFC.

    Another great stat is that Wes is tied for fourth in the AFC in TD's... with Randy Moss and Ben Watson.

    It's a nine-way tie, mind you, but the Pats are the only team with a cluster like that at this point.
     
  14. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I think both Tate and Edelman will be WR options and Aiken goes back to ST when Edelman returns.
     
  15. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Thats the most likely scenario. Although Aiken has done pretty darn well in the passing game these last two weeks. Loved seeing him shed that tackle on the 54yd gallop on the TB dump-off pass.

    Also liked seeing Baker get more involved in the passing game. He had a nice catch on the sidelines and showed good hands on a couple of other catches.

    At the end of the day, if Tate can continue to develop and contribute, with Edelman, Tate & Aiken along with Moss and Welker, thats a real nice 1-5.
     
  16. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Let's all give Ben Watson credit. He's playing at a high level, and certainly at the best level of his career. He has definitely stepped up!
     
  17. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    You may be right, but it's nice to have a big, tall receiver like Aiken in a pinch :).
     
  18. jarnhestur

    jarnhestur On the Roster

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    I think Edelman is going to be a very solid WR for this offense. He just need time to develop. Hopefully, him being out doesn't derail his progress.
     
  19. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    At the very least what Aiken's performance these last two games tell us is that he is a very good 5th WR and a good 4th WR. 3rd? Not yet.
     
  20. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Or the fantastic block he put down that was almost entirely responsible for Welker's TD?
     
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