Offensive Line

[mgteich]

Light is our starting LT for 2010. We'll see about 2011 when it comes.

You seem to value RT's higher than LG's. I don't. However, I am certainly fine with Vollmer as a starting RT, with another (probably Kaczur) at LG.

I don't think that it would be waste at all for Vollmer to develop into a probowl LG.

LeVoir is too tall to play inside? Guess that makes sense...I just don't know if I'd want him starting at LT with his limited experience and for some reason I see Vollmer as a dominant type tackle on either side.Playing him at guard seems to be sort of a waste of his best attributes.

 

[jmt57]

Neil Hornsby of Pro Football Focus ranks the NFL's 32 offensive lines. He places the Pats third overall; 4th in the running game, 4th in the passing game and 11th in penalties. Interestingly PFF has the Pats third overall, and also third in the division; they rank the Jets first overall and the Dolphins second.

ProFootballFocus.com - Articles

This is an extremely balanced group that does most things well. It is also probably the best group of screen blockers around. Having said that, it was remarkable how quickly a strength like the defensive line became a real weakness and it's possible, although much less likely, a similar thing could happen here.

Best Player: When he was on the field, Stephen Neal did a fantastic all-around job. But he missed a quarter of the season with injury.

Biggest Concern: Logan Mankins isn't at all happy about his contract, and three-fifths of the others are getting old at the same time. Luckily, in Dan Connolly, Mark LeVoir and particularly Sebastian Vollmer the Patriots have potential replacements of high quality.

 

[Joker]

I'm not trying to be argumentative...just speaking from my perspective but like all of us, I watch every snap and go to a bunch of home games. I don't think there's ever been any question that Vollmer's footwork is much better than Kaczur's. I watched them both play the RT position and I feel more comfortable with Vollmer's size and athleticism, especially when it comes to handling the better edge rushers in the league.Some people opine that flip flopping Light and Vollmer at LT and LG might be a viable option...personally,I feel light is a LT until he retires, so I guess it makes sense, with the absence of Mankins to play Vollmer at guard. The thing is Kaczur's first step isn't going to improve and the Pats will have to put up with pressures from the outside against the better rushers. At this point I'd be looking to minimize the amount of hits Brady takes over the course of a season and I feel Vollmer would do a better job of that than Kaczur at RT.Another thing is the health of Neal...it's likely he goes down at some point given the past few seasons.Moving Kaczur to RG and playing Vollmer at RT with LeVoir the third man in makes sense to me. Just my opinion.Mankins has really mucked this whole thing up.

 

[jmt57]

Patriots Daily's Bruce Allen gives us his Positional Previews - Offensive Line.

Positional Previews – Offensive Line | Patriots Daily

Allen sees Koppen at center this year, with either Connolly or Larsen taking over in the near future. At guard he has Neal and Kaczur starting, Ohrnberger and Bussey getting more playing time, and Wise a longterm project. He has Light and Vollmer starting at tackle, LeVoir as the first off the bench, and Welch as another candidate for a year of learning with Dante.

Summary

With or without Mankins, the Patriots offensive line figures to be a solid, if aging, unit. Younger players such as Vollmer, Ohrnberger and perhaps Larsen need to be able to grow into larger roles with the line, eventually stepping in for some of the veterans. The line has been steady pretty much throughout the Belichick era, and figures to be so again this season.

 

[jmt57]

Richard Hill of Pats Pulpit takes a look at Dan Connolly as part of his series of roster predictions.

Patriots Roster Prediction #35: G/C Dan Connolly - Pats Pulpit

Predicted Role: Connolly should keep his spot as top interior line back-up this season. Neal should go down with an injury for a few games, as usual, and Connolly should step into his spot. Connolly will be able to come onto the field and give breaks to "old men" Koppen and Neal, should they need rests.

At one point he characterizes Connolly as a "great interior lineman"; I assume he meant to include the word "backup" in that description.

Summary: Connolly made enough of an impact last season to be thought highly of, entering the 2010 season. He'll be a great back-up and could provide solid starting time, if called upon. With the uncertainty of Logan Mankins, look for Connolly to get some first team reps, but expect Nick Kaczur to be the top back-up for the left guard position.

 

[TheComeback]

Certainly would be nice if we still had Russ Hochstein. Better than Connolly, at least.

 

[TheComeback]

Light is our starting LT for 2010. We'll see about 2011 when it comes.

You seem to value RT's higher than LG's. I don't. However, I am certainly fine with Vollmer as a starting RT, with another (probably Kaczur) at LG.

I don't think that it would be waste at all for Vollmer to develop into a probowl LG.

Vollmer can't play LG. He is 6'8" which way too tall for a guard. Read the latest discussion Reiss had with Bruschi, where he talks about why he has serious reservations about Kazcur moving to LG.

Granted, Vollmer is more talented than Kaczur, but Bruschi's point still provides some insight into moving a tackle to the guard position. Vollmer is way, way too big. He's so tall Brady might have trouble throwing over his head at times.

 

[italia44]

Light is our starting LT for 2010. We'll see about 2011 when it comes.

You seem to value RT's higher than LG's. I don't. However, I am certainly fine with Vollmer as a starting RT, with another (probably Kaczur) at LG.

I don't think that it would be waste at all for Vollmer to develop into a probowl LG.

The guard position isn't about size,it's about leverage and side to side mobility.

How does a 6' 8" guard get leverage on a 5' 11-6' 2",DT or NT?......How does he get to the 2nd level to engage the ILB for a successful running play?

No offense,but Vollmer at LG is just ridiculous.

 

[mgteich]

OKay, so we are left with an oft injured RG, a C who gets weaker each year and an absent left guard.

We are settled on our three tackles who will not play any guard: Light, Vollmer and LeVoir.

Connolly seems the perfect Game Day backup at C, LG and RG.
=================

In the end, I guess we can hope that Kaczur can become an nfl LG in the next 14 days. We have seven OK linemen, and then come the kids. Perhaps, one of the kids will step up.

 

[jmt57]

Light is our starting LT for 2010. We'll see about 2011 when it comes.

You seem to value RT's higher than LG's. I don't. However, I am certainly fine with Vollmer as a starting RT, with another (probably Kaczur) at LG.

I don't think that it would be waste at all for Vollmer to develop into a probowl LG.

Vollmer can't play LG. He is 6'8" which way too tall for a guard. Read the latest discussion Reiss had with Bruschi, where he talks about why he has serious reservations about Kazcur moving to LG.

Granted, Vollmer is more talented than Kaczur, but Bruschi's point still provides some insight into moving a tackle to the guard position. Vollmer is way, way too big. He's so tall Brady might have trouble throwing over his head at times.

The guard position isn't about size,it's about leverage and side to side mobility.

How does a 6' 8" guard get leverage on a 5' 11-6' 2",DT or NT?......How does he get to the 2nd level to engage the ILB for a successful running play?

No offense,but Vollmer at LG is just ridiculous.

OKay, so we are left with an oft injured RG, a C who gets weaker each year and an absent left guard.

We are settled on our three tackles who will not play any guard: Light, Vollmer and LeVoir.

Connolly seems the perfect Game Day backup at C, LG and RG.
=================

In the end, I guess we can hope that Kaczur can become an nfl LG in the next 14 days. We have seven OK linemen, and then come the kids. Perhaps, one of the kids will step up.

Here are Bruschi's comments that TheComeback was referring to in the column Bruschi and Reiss did for espnBoston.

Tedy Bruschi and Mike Reiss break down the New England Patriots heading into training camp - ESPN Boston

The longer Logan Mankins holds out, the less effective this offense will be. I have my reservations about Nick Kaczur at left guard. He has been a tackle his entire career, and moving down inside it's an entirely different world. You have to deal with linebackers in space, zero-technique nose guards, different blocking combinations, different angles. That can take some time for a tackle to get used to. Not only that, but Nick Kaczur has the body of an offensive tackle. He is tall, his arms are very long, and when you get into those 1-on-1 confrontations in the center-guard area, that offensive-tackle body can sometimes be a detriment. As an inside linebacker, the taller and longer an offensive guard was I felt like I could get leverage on him, get my helmet under his chin, get a better pop on him. With Kaczur, the more he plays guard, the more you're also affecting his development at tackle. So I think the Mankins "holdout" has a ripple effect across the entire offensive line.

The one thing Bruschi said that I don't follow is his comments about Kaczur being tall and having the body of a tackle. Kaczur is 6'4", 315 lbs. By comparison to other guards, Kaczur seems similar; Neal is 6-4, 305, and Mankins is 6-4, 310. On the other hand at tackle Vollmer is 6-8, 315, and LeVoir is 6-7, 310 for example.

Regardless of physique it seems to me Kaczur is less successful moving laterally against speed rushers, but more successful against bull rushers - which would seem to tell me he should be able to make a successful transition inside to guard.

 

[IllegalContact]

watch.......if mankins does not play, Larsen will wind up being the starting LG

the man is a beast......no, the man is THE beast

 

[mgteich]

He may indeed be THE BEAST. However this center is not likely to pass Connolly (and Kaczur) in the depth chart in the next month.

If it were Koppen who was out, the situation would be different since Larsen is more likely to be ready for prime time at center.

watch.......if mankins does not play, Larsen will wind up being the starting LG

the man is a beast......no, the man is THE beast

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

He may indeed be THE BEAST. However this center is not likely to pass Connolly (and Kaczur) in the depth chart in the next month.

If it were Koppen who was out, the situation would be different since Larsen is more likely to be ready for prime time at center.

Bill usually drafts olinemen that have years of starting experience. Larsen has more experience playing dline than center or guard. Larsen must have shown enough talent in less time to get drafted here, even as late as the sixth round. I'm not saying he will win a starting job, but I do think he will make the team.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Here are Bruschi's comments that TheComeback was referring to in the column Bruschi and Reiss did for espnBoston.

Tedy Bruschi and Mike Reiss break down the New England Patriots heading into training camp - ESPN Boston

The longer Logan Mankins holds out, the less effective this offense will be. I have my reservations about Nick Kaczur at left guard. He has been a tackle his entire career, and moving down inside it's an entirely different world. You have to deal with linebackers in space, zero-technique nose guards, different blocking combinations, different angles. That can take some time for a tackle to get used to. Not only that, but Nick Kaczur has the body of an offensive tackle. He is tall, his arms are very long, and when you get into those 1-on-1 confrontations in the center-guard area, that offensive-tackle body can sometimes be a detriment. As an inside linebacker, the taller and longer an offensive guard was I felt like I could get leverage on him, get my helmet under his chin, get a better pop on him. With Kaczur, the more he plays guard, the more you're also affecting his development at tackle. So I think the Mankins "holdout" has a ripple effect across the entire offensive line.

The one thing Bruschi said that I don't follow is his comments about Kaczur being tall and having the body of a tackle. Kaczur is 6'4", 315 lbs. By comparison to other guards, Kaczur seems similar; Neal is 6-4, 305, and Mankins is 6-4, 310. On the other hand at tackle Vollmer is 6-8, 315, and LeVoir is 6-7, 310 for example.

Regardless of physique it seems to me Kaczur is less successful moving laterally against speed rushers, but more successful against bull rushers - which would seem to tell me he should be able to make a successful transition inside to guard.

When drafted, Nick Kaczur was projected as a Guard/Tackle, probably better as a Guard. I thought that he would become a Guard, but Neal's development left no room, there.

Someone else pointed out Bruschi's comment as inane as all four guards, Mankins, Neal, Kaczur and Connolly are 6'4" tall. Bussey and Ohrnberger are shorter. Don't discount Bussey. He was a short Left Tackle in college, and a pretty good one. Plus he was a walk-on; that testifies to his grit and determination.

 

[jmt57]

watch.......if mankins does not play, Larsen will wind up being the starting LG

the man is a beast......no, the man is THE beast

He may indeed be THE BEAST. However this center is not likely to pass Connolly (and Kaczur) in the depth chart in the next month.

If it were Koppen who was out, the situation would be different since Larsen is more likely to be ready for prime time at center.

It will be interesting to compare and contrast the progression of Connolly versus the progression of Larsen. Connolly obviously comes off the bench first at this point, but Larsen may be more of a longterm answer.

On one hand Larsen was highly rated as among centers in this past draft, but on the other hand he only has two years of experience in college at the position, having played on the defensive line prior to that. That would lead me to believe that he won't be on the field much this season, other than special teams. In 2011, after a full year of Dante working with him, he could be ready to go then. At that point the two could be competing against each other as the first backup off the bench; one or the other or both could be challenging Koppen to be the starting center; and one or the other or both could be challenging Neal to be the starting RG.

 

[mgteich]

This sounds like a good situation to me. We are in fine shape if we have two solid potential starters at two positions.

We have room for both on the roster even if Mankins comes back.

It will be interesting to compare and contrast the progression of Connolly versus the progression of Larsen. Connolly obviously comes off the bench first at this point, but Larsen may be more of a longterm answer.

On one hand Larsen was highly rated as among centers in this past draft, but on the other hand he only has two years of experience in college at the position, having played on the defensive line prior to that. That would lead me to believe that he won't be on the field much this season, other than special teams. In 2011, after a full year of Dante working with him, he could be ready to go then. At that point the two could be competing against each other as the first backup off the bench; one or the other or both could be challenging Koppen to be the starting center; and one or the other or both could be challenging Neal to be the starting RG.

 

[jmt57]

Danny Picard of Comcast SportsNet New England takes a look at Nick Kaczur's move to guard.

With Mankins missing, Kaczur shows his versatility


The tackle-turned-left guard is embracing the position change the only way he can

"It’s another challenge for me, another opportunity to show what I can do to be diverse, so that’s what I’m looking forward to doing," said Kaczur after Thursday's workouts.

“The more you can do, the better it is for me," he said. "It’s a chance to get an opportunity to play another position for a while, show what I can do in different spots.”

Moving from one slot in the offensive line to another might not seem like such a difficult transition from afar. But even though he practiced at the position at times last season, Kaczur is still trying to adjust to matching up against bigger players and learning his new assignments.
*
“You think it’d be the same thing [as tackle], but it’s like every time a play comes up, I still think I’m a tackle, and I’m like, ‘No, I’m inside now, so it just changes to different linebackers and certain things like that," said Kaczur.

Until there's more certainty with the end result of Mankins' hold-out, the left guard position belongs to Kaczur. And if Mankins returns?

“That will be something we have to deal with when that time comes," he said.

 

[jmt57]

Another view from practice - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Vince Wilfork makes his mark. During 11-on-11 red zone work late in practice, Vince Wilfork broke through the line and disrupted a Sammy Morris run in the backfield, leading to an enthused Wilfork acknowledging the crowd. Linebacker Thomas Williams continued to see time at fullback during this drill, as had been the case during offseason minicamps.

I guess that's not that much of a negative for the offensive line; since it was Vince Wilfork who blew up the play.

Focusing on a backup lineman. After missing all of last season with an injury, second-year offensive lineman George Bussey (2009 fifth-round pick) returned to the practice field on Thursday morning, seeing the majority of his time at offensive tackle.

Wow, I had just about forgotten all about him. May as well use this time wisely and let guys like him get most of the reps, and ease the vets like Light and Neal into the regular season.

Penalty lap for mistake. Rookie quarterback Zac Robinson and center Ryan Wendell ran a lap during full team drills, presumably after a bad snap exchange between the two.

Rather than a sign that said 'finish line' at the end of the lap, perhaps there should have been one that said 'Practice Squad, this way'.

 

[jmt57]

Mike Reiss was asked about the center position today.

Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN Boston

Q. Is there a player currently on the roster who could potentially beat out Koppen for the starting center position?

A. Saw Dan Connolly get some reps alongside the two top guards today, so he'd be the first option from my view. One thought is that Mankins' situation ties into Koppen. If you don't have Mankins, Koppen's value rises to me a bit.

 

[jmt57]

A little bit more on Kaczur moving to guard - though the author, Roert Lee of the Providence Journal ends up using as much space in his column on player's comments about Logan Mankins as he does on Kaczur.

For Kaczur, moving to guard is an adjustment on multiple levels | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

“You shorten up your stance and your base a little bit, because you’ve got people all around you. I’m used to a lot of open space and now my space is more confined, so you’ve got to get used to that so you don’t trip on the guys beside you all the time.”


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Yeah, Jerod Mayo and Gary Guyton concur with you Nick.