Offensive Capability more then we think?

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I was talking with my father, a long time SF 49er fan who is a former football assistant defensive backs coach for a small division two school back in the 80's and he said the following which is why I'm sharing it with you guys and want your take.. "I hate when people say NE doesn't have any weapons, outside of Blount, and Ridley because I can name plenty. For starters Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman are excellent receivers, they are not just good but excellent all-around. And that Vereen kid reminds me of Roger C. The rookie young men Thompkins and Dobson I definitely see some Chad here and there and Aaron reminds me of a Rice or Moss mix .. those boys just have to put it all together, but they got some greatness in them for sure" NOW, I want you guy's honest opinion on this.. this kind of got me amped up being as though he never says anything like that.. what are you guy's take and do you think McDaniels will open things up more in the post season?

 

[Kdo5]

I was talking with my father, a long time SF 49er fan who is a former football assistant defensive backs coach for a small division two school back in the 80's and he said the following which is why I'm sharing it with you guys and want your take.. "I hate when people say NE doesn't have any weapons, outside of Blount, and Ridley because I can name plenty. For starters Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman are excellent receivers, they are not just good but excellent all-around. And that Vereen kid reminds me of Roger C. The rookie young men Thompkins and Dobson I definitely see some Chad here and there and Aaron reminds me of a Rice or Moss mix .. those boys just have to put it all together, but they got some greatness in them for sure" NOW, I want you guy's honest opinion on this.. this kind of got me amped up being as though he never says anything like that.. what are you guy's take and do you think McDaniels will open things up more in the post season?

Amendola being excellent and the comparison of Dobson to Rice/KT to Chad is a bit much. At least premature comparisons.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Amendola being excellent and the comparison of Dobson to Rice/KT to Chad is a bit much. At least premature comparisons.

If anything I thought KT was like Deion Branch a little and Dobson slightly like a poor man's A.J Green. I'm not too sure what to think about Amendola now

 

[Deus Irae]

My honest opinion is that it's amazing how everyone you talk to knows every single player on the Patriots and thinks they're all great, even when you tell us they're avid fans of other teams.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

My honest opinion is that it's amazing how everyone you talk to knows every single player on the Patriots and thinks they're all great, even when you tell us they're avid fans of other teams.

You know I disagree with my father, and I really don't have time for your ***** right now. That's why I posted this because I knew everybody would give me an honest opinion.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Just have to execute. If we execute, we have a shot at winning.

 

[letekro]

KT is very similar to Chad. Body type, slightly better than average speed, very quick feet, good route running, right down to where they grew up.

The Pats receivers are fine--between the 20s. Problem with the offense right now is that there is no red zone threat in the passing game. They have to rely on those pick plays to score passing touchdowns from the red zone and those things get defended better in the playoffs.

 

[SalemPats]

I was talking with my father, a long time SF 49er fan who is a former football assistant defensive backs coach for a small division two school back in the 80's and he said the following which is why I'm sharing it with you guys and want your take.. "I hate when people say NE doesn't have any weapons, outside of Blount, and Ridley because I can name plenty. For starters Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman are excellent receivers, they are not just good but excellent all-around. And that Vereen kid reminds me of Roger C. The rookie young men Thompkins and Dobson I definitely see some Chad here and there and Aaron reminds me of a Rice or Moss mix .. those boys just have to put it all together, but they got some greatness in them for sure" NOW, I want you guy's honest opinion on this.. this kind of got me amped up being as though he never says anything like that.. what are you guy's take and do you think McDaniels will open things up more in the post season?

We have Brady that keeps us competitive. We lack a physical WR and we don't have an outside receiver that can play against top CBs. Edelman is a man, Amendola is good but has disappointed me this year. I love Vereen, but he's injured half the time and our RBs have fumbling issues. Our line is solid, not spectacular. When you lose your top 3 threats in Gronk/WW/Aaron and your starting rb gets benched things change. Brady is doing a great job, but our offense is not half as dangerous as it once was.

 

[Brady6]

The rookie young men Thompkins and Dobson I definitely see some Chad here and there and Aaron reminds me of a Rice or Moss mix ..

I assume you mean Sidney Rice…

 

[SalemPats]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dobson and KT's roles next year are limited especially if we try and get a veteran through free agency and draft a physical WR or TE

 

[Brady6]

KT is very similar to Chad. Body type, slightly better than average speed, very quick feet, good route running, right down to where they grew up.

The Pats receivers are fine--between the 20s. Problem with the offense right now is that there is no red zone threat in the passing game. They have to rely on those pick plays to score passing touchdowns from the red zone and those things get defended better in the playoffs.

Chad Johnson was not anything special as an athlete or in size by NFL WR standards what he had was intangible that do not show up at the combine. Thompkins is faster and more athletic with basically the same size, the question is does Thompkins have the intangible that Johnson possessed and that is TBD.

The comparison to Randy Moss and Jerry Rice is as ambitions as a zebra trying to steal food from a lion. Dobson should some promise but Jerry Rice and Randy Moss are two of the greatest WRs to ever step on the field. I would be happy if Dobson developed into Sidney Rice; Jerry Rice should not even be used in the same sentence right now.

- I am referring to the OP comparison my post wasn’t really direct at you I sort of piggybacked yours, don’t take it the wrong way.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Aaron reminds me of a Rice or Moss mix ..

That's a lofty comparison and I think and example of 2 extreme players that are both all-time greats.

On one hand you have Randy Moss that had every physical gift a receiver could almost ever want (outside of having more weight like a Megatron -- asuming it didn't slow him down too) and what BB called a high football IQ (I'll take him at his word). His downfall really had more to do with his mental toughness and handling things outside the game and allowing them to creep into his play.

On the other hand you had Rice. Not the most physically gifted receiver, but had the heart of a champion and the will to push through anything. Put rice's head with mosses physical traits and you would have had someone who would pretty much redefine football.

Dobson is coming along nicely, but needs to stay healthy. Nothing he has done leads me to believe he can be like a Moss, but with the right attitude, he can develop into a formidable receiver. That will still take some time and is a work in progress. But, he can be enough (if at 95% plus) to help us win games.

 

[RayClay]

If anything I thought KT was like Deion Branch a little and Dobson slightly like a poor man's A.J Green. I'm not too sure what to think about Amendola now

Lots of athlete's are like other athletes. The difference is what they've proven and, unfortunately, the rookies got injured before they got into the proven category. Dobson has a foot injury that may not heal this year.

Edelman has proven to be a great, reliable smaller receiver. Amendola probably is too, but you couldn't prove it by a consistent performance this year, though maybe he's healthier than at other times. Vereen is a game changer, no doubt, but until he puts together consistent performances, he's hit or miss.

None of this means we can't have a great performance by receivers, and we do have a great quarterback, but comparing guys that haven't put three outstanding games together to a Rice or Craig who did it all year, year after year, just leaves you in a fantasy land.

On the other hand, we need to win three games. Our running game is peaking at the right time and players like Amendola and Vereen are smart and athletic while guys like Hooman and Develin are tough and capable of catching two or three balls in the red zone which might be all we need.

 

[Kdo5]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dobson and KT's roles next year are limited especially if we try and get a veteran through free agency and draft a physical WR or TE

So we just drafted a second round receiver, he looks promising yet let's limit his future reps and draft another receiver. Makes sense...

 

[Brady6]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dobson and KT's roles next year are limited especially if we try and get a veteran through free agency and draft a physical WR or TE

In general WRs develop the most of any position other than QB in year 1 to year 2. You saw that this year with:

• Josh Gordon
• Alshon Jeffery
• T.Y. Hilton
• Kendall Wright
• Michael Floyd
• Rod Streater
• Rueben Randle
• Coby Fleener (TE)

Those players all made significant improvements YOY. In prior years you saw that leap by Randall Cobb, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Golden Tate and many others. Take a look at Gronkowski and Hernandez rookie years compared to their second seasons, Gronkowski played in all 16 games and finished with 42 receptions for 546 receiving yards, Dobson played in 12 games, 2 of which he left early in the first half due to injury and he finished with 37 receptions for 519 receiving yards. I would be willing to bet that if Dobson had been healthy for all 16 games his rookie season would have resulted in more receptions and receiving yards than Gronkowski.

The point I am trying to make is I think you’re wrong and prematurely concluding Dobson career outcome. He was playing great football prior to the injury in the Denver game, he was starting to look like a poor man’s AJ Green, even on Sunday before he left with an injury he made a very difficult reception for a first down. I expect that Dobson will make the 2nd year leap and I expect Boyce to as well.

Thompkins I am not as high on as most so I agree that he may not be a huge part of this offense, I actually would not be surprised to see Thompkins go the way of Justin Francis and not even be here. Thompkins was mature and worked hard, he was able to pick up the offense quicker and better than Dobson and Boyce but eventually if a player is willing to work hard talent will always win out we saw that when Dennard passed Sterling Moore, and so many others before.

 

[SalemPats]

So we just drafted a second round receiver, he looks promising yet let's limit his future reps and draft another receiver. Makes sense...

Haven't we learned anything from BB, it doesn't really matter where you get drafted, you prove it on the field. These two haven't blown me away, their hands are not great nor are they physical. I'm not at practice so i can't see 1st hand what's going on, but if we can upgrade i wouldn't mind it. If they turn out to be great than all the better.

 

[SalemPats]

In general WRs develop the most of any position other than QB in year 1 to year 2. You saw that this year with:

• Josh Gordon
• Alshon Jeffery
• T.Y. Hilton
• Kendall Wright
• Michael Floyd
• Rod Streater
• Rueben Randle
• Coby Fleener (TE)

Those players all made significant improvements YOY. In prior years you saw that leap by Randall Cobb, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Golden Tate and many others. Take a look at Gronkowski and Hernandez rookie years compared to their second seasons, Gronkowski played in all 16 games and finished with 42 receptions for 546 receiving yards, Dobson played in 12 games, 2 of which he left early in the first half due to injury and he finished with 37 receptions for 519 receiving yards. I would be willing to bet that if Dobson had been healthy for all 16 games his rookie season would have resulted in more receptions and receiving yards than Gronkowski.

The point I am trying to make is I think you’re wrong and prematurely concluding Dobson career outcome. He was playing great football prior to the injury in the Denver game, he was starting to look like a poor man’s AJ Green, even on Sunday before he left with an injury he made a very difficult reception for a first down. I expect that Dobson will make the 2nd year leap and I expect Boyce to as well.

Thompkins I am not as high on as most so I agree that he may not be a huge part of this offense, I actually would not be surprised to see Thompkins go the way of Justin Francis and not even be here. Thompkins was mature and worked hard, he was able to pick up the offense quicker and better than Dobson and Boyce but eventually if a player is willing to work hard talent will always win out we saw that when Dennard passed Sterling Moore, and so many others before.

for those guys you mentioned there's a ton that did nothing (just look at Brandon Tate, Ted Ginn, etc...). If BB and Brady believe in them and see a ton in practice then that's awesome and they'll get the opportunity, but if not we need to upgrade. We've all seen Tom, once he loses trust in you, he won't look your way.

 

[Brady6]

for those guys you mentioned there's a ton that did nothing (just look at Brandon Tate, Ted Ginn, etc...). If BB and Brady believe in them and see a ton in practice then that's awesome and they'll get the opportunity, but if not we need to upgrade. We've all seen Tom, once he loses trust in you, he won't look your way.

Those players showed nothing as rookies that indicated they would make a 2nd year, Dobson has shown the ability to get open and make difficult catches at the NFL. He needs to become more consistent, focus on learning how to use his body and free his hands from contact and some other things but if he does he could make the leap that Jeffrey made this year in Chicago.

 

[Kdo5]

Haven't we learned anything from BB, it doesn't really matter where you get drafted, you prove it on the field. These two haven't blown me away, their hands are not great nor are they physical. I'm not at practice so i can't see 1st hand what's going on, but if we can upgrade i wouldn't mind it. If they turn out to be great than all the better.

He is a ROOKIE. This point cannot be stated enough because for some it is almost impossible to get that through their skulls. He has had the best statistical year for a rookie WR on the Pats since Terry Glenn and he missed a whole bunch of games with a foot injury just as he was hitting his stride. The drops were bad early on but they ceased being much of an issue as the season progressed. You can rewind to the first half of the season and say that their hands are bad based off their first few games alone but that doesn't make you right. If you think we can just go into the draft and snag a some physical receiver and expect him to produce at a high level as a rookie then you will be in for some disappointment.

 

[letekro]

Haven't we learned anything from BB, it doesn't really matter where you get drafted, you prove it on the field. These two haven't blown me away, their hands are not great nor are they physical. I'm not at practice so i can't see 1st hand what's going on, but if we can upgrade i wouldn't mind it. If they turn out to be great than all the better.

First year WRs not named Randy Moss rarely blow one away. You have to be able to project their development. Both Dobson and Thompkins showed the ability to consistently get open, which is by far the hardest thing for personnel people to project going from college to the NFL. Since we know they can do that, I would like to keep developing them rather than gambling on another guy. The dropsies appeared to be related to nerves as I don't believe either had hands issues in college. I am not concerned about that at all.

I would much rather see them get some Gronkowski insurance in the form of Jace Amaro or other large, athletic TE.