Offense...Worse In The Brady Era

[denverpatsfan]

This corps of wide receivers does not impress me. This must be addressed in the offseason. Jackson is a bust IMO. Even if it is due to injury. The guy hasn't showed up this season. Hopefully he will turn it around, but we have been saying this ALL SEASON to no avail.

Caldwell & Brown are the only NFL caliber receivers on this team. The rest wouldn't crack the starting line-up on some college teams.

That being said, we are back to the dink & dunk offense. If that works then I am fine with it for now, but the Pats really need to look hard at paying more for this position in 2007.

And it was Brady's fault on the two passes that Brown "dropped" today.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's because it's BULLSH!T. BULLSH!T.

Too many FG ? Maybe but what do you call 4 TDs ? 4 TDs, 4 FG, 50% in the Red Zone is GOOD.

Yards ? How can we get YARDS when we start at the 50 all day ??? Huh ???

Jackson ? Maybe the other guys are better right now and we didn't exactly have to throw downfield a lot. Why would the others be better ? Because Jackson has been hurt so much and rookie WR tend to struggle anyway.

Here's the kicker . . . we can't score 14 against SD. OK fine. Going into today Chicago was allowing 13.7 and we scored 17. SD is allowing 19.8 per game. Figure it out.

Don't talk about in-depth analysis and give credit to this bullsh!t slop.

Why are you so negative about the team?

As I said we played good situational ball. We didn't need to have big plays and BB played a good safe game when we were up by a boatload of points.

That's not BULLSH!T - its good situational ball. So what's your problem?

HUH?????

Try reading a post before flaming all over it.

The other point I made was the fact that 3 and 4 yard passes all day against a truly BAD football team is going to do nothing to convince DC's that the we can stretch the field and prevent a similar scheme to the one employed by a GOOD defense like the Dolphins.

If you think 3 and 4 yard passes ARE stretching the field, then THAT'S Bullsh!t.

Win or no win against a 4-10 team, we've still got BIG issues on Offense.

If that's something that's just TABOO to talk about around here then EXCUUUSEEE MEEEE!

 

[BelichickFan]

Try reading a post before flaming all over it.

I was talking about the post you replied to, not yours. The original post to this thread was total fabrication and BS.

 

[Kdo5]

This corps of wide receivers does not impress me. This must be addressed in the offseason. Jackson is a bust IMO. Even if it is due to injury. The guy hasn't showed up this season. Hopefully he will turn it around, but we have been saying this ALL SEASON to no avail.

Caldwell & Brown are the only NFL caliber receivers on this team. The rest wouldn't crack the starting line-up on some college teams.

That being said, we are back to the dink & dunk offense. If that works then I am fine with it for now, but the Pats really need to look hard at paying more for this position in 2007.

And it was Brady's fault on the two passes that Brown "dropped" today.

WOW. How can you claim he is a bust after 1 season? He hasnt played in all the games. And in the most of the games he has played in, they rarely put him on the field. And when Jackson is on the field, Brady almost never throws in his direction.

Usually when that happens, you arent really given a chance to show what you've got do you? Maybe if more fans put a little confidence into Jackson, you can give him another year before worrying about the kid. As far as I see it, Chad is 21 years old, very young. Had a rather injury plagued season and wasnt given a heck of a lot of playing time. Lets give him a break.

 

[Drewwho]

This thread is ******ed!

The Pats had a short, VERY short field all day...hence the lack of passing yards for Brady.

Yeah, points were left on the board, but players were left off the field (i.e. Maroney, Watson) who are vital to this offense.

Also, Brown should have caught that ball in the endzone. That was NOT BRADY's fault as suggested. This is the NFL for crying out loud and I am sick of Brady getting the blame for passes like that one. WR's in this league have to be playmakers and that ball was extremely catchable. Every team seems to have TE's and WR's who get it done making great catches, athletic moves to get the ball. Most QB's have guys who can just go up and get it or turn and make the move on the ball. However, in NE if the QB here does not place the ball right on the numbers the ball is not caught and that is the QB's fault. It gets ridiculous week after week hearing Pat fans blame Brady for that crap.

Underthrown or Overthrown balls are one thing, but the two passes in question today to Brown would have been caught on 99.9% of the teams in the NFL!

 

[JoeSixPat]

WOW. How can you claim he is a bust after 1 season? He hasnt played in all the games. And in the most of the games he has played in, they rarely put him on the field. And when Jackson is on the field, Brady almost never throws in his direction.

Yeah - I'm a realist. That means I don't look at the offense on the field and think DC's are shaking in their boots.

Nor do I think that a rookie WR who has battled injuries and has had a TON of pressure put on him because of a depleted underperforming WR corps can be deemed a bust.

You couldn't say that even if he HADN'T been injured and been put in a pressure situation.

If we're having the same conversation NEXT year then one might have a point to make - but look me up then and I'll tell you.

 

[SVN]

WOW. How can you claim he is a bust after 1 season? He hasnt played in all the games. And in the most of the games he has played in, they rarely put him on the field. And when Jackson is on the field, Brady almost never throws in his direction.

yup, BB and brady have some conspiracy against jackson, they dont want him to help the team succeed, its their fault and dont know what they are doing...

 

[BradyManny]

WOW. How can you claim he is a bust after 1 season? He hasnt played in all the games. And in the most of the games he has played in, they rarely put him on the field. And when Jackson is on the field, Brady almost never throws in his direction.

Usually when that happens, you arent really given a chance to show what you've got do you? Maybe if more fans put a little confidence into Jackson, you can give him another year before worrying about the kid. As far as I see it, Chad is 21 years old, very young. Had a rather injury plagued season and wasnt given a heck of a lot of playing time. Lets give him a break.

Well put. (10 characters)

 

[RayClay]

The best passing offense we had was the beginning of the 2002 season.

Remember the Pittsburgh game (30-14) ? How about the Jets game (44-7)?

We missed the playoffs that year.

Why not come off that imaginary cloud you're living on and get some perspective?

The team is 10-4 and headed for the playoffs and they're not the worst anything.

 

[BelichickFan]

Our two best athletes, Watson and Maroney weren't even dressed today. But I guess that doesn't matter.

 

[Kdo5]

yup, BB and brady have some conspiracy against jackson, they dont want him to help the team succeed, its their fault and dont know what they are doing...

Oh shut up...you know I didnt mean that. Brady has done a great job this season with the recievers he has. I am saying that they havent used him a lot and perhaps for good reason, and Brady hasnt thrown to him a lot, perhaps for good reason that he has a lot more faith in someone say Brown, Watson or Caldwell? Not once did I blame Brady or Belichick or McDaniels...

I hope soon Jackson will start becoming the top reciever on this team, certainly not this season but it would be nice for him to become a legit starter in the future.

But let me say this...today I was dissapointed in Brown, also Gaffney for dropping a perfect pass by Brady that could have been a 50 yard TD or something. Caldwell did decent, he obviously didnt get a lot of yards but he did convert on some third downs, which was very nice. Kight...well he is Kight.

Positive WR: Caldwell(decent enough)

Negative WR: Brown(dropped passes), Gaffney (long dropped pass, also I think he caught a ball on a good throw and rolled over then lost the ball. Correct me if I have the wrong guy.)

The invisible WR: Kight, Jackson.

So I'd like to see Jackson given some more chances after seeing a dismal performance by the WR's today. Thats what I am saying.

 

[BradyManny]

yup, BB and brady have some conspiracy against jackson, they dont want him to help the team succeed, its their fault and dont know what they are doing...

That's not what we're saying at all.

I just think it's in the team's best interest for this season to find a way to maximize Chad Jackson's potential. His ceiling is a lot higher than any other receiver on this team, and I'm sure BB and all the coaches are aware of that. We all know how hard it is for wideouts as rookies, but if they want to win the Super Bowl this year, I really believe that Chad Jackson will have to be a part of that come playoff time.

I think the injuries have made it difficult for the coaches and for CJackson to go about reaching some of his potential, but today would have been a PERFECT day to try and give him as many opportunites to get his hands on the ball in an NFL game. Just think about the fact that this is a guy who caught 88 passes in a college season last year - the guy is used to being involved, and every athlete knows you need to feel involved, you need to feel part of the game. It's tough to just jump right in and make a play on the one or two times a game which your number is called, which CJ has been asked to do this season.

But, like you, I trust BB, I just wish things were different. I'm not criticizing BB, simply trying to say things haven't gone as I'd hoped for CJ this year, but that I think he can still contribute.

Though I have used the "BB knows best, you can't argue with him" defense myself, man it gets annoying when it's used against you!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

The best passing offense we had was the beginning of the 2002 season.

Remember the Pittsburgh game (30-14) ? How about the Jets game (44-7)?

We missed the playoffs that year.

Why not come off that imaginary cloud you're living on and get some perspective?

The team is 10-4 and headed for the playoffs and they're not the worst anything.

Good point raised - that high passing numbers don't equate to a Super Bowl team. They can indicate that the team was forced to pass because the running game wasn't there or the team was consistently behind.

Cleary the 2002 team was not one of the best -

The 2003 and 2004 teams could seemingly turn on the passing game at will - scoring, completing passes - including long pivitol passes - at crucial points to win games.

Although we're 10-4 there's likely NO ONE on this board who would suggest this is an offense to rival those - and NO ONE who thinks the team has shown that they can score and complete passes seemingly at will against good teams.

Bottom line - while I'll save my assessment of the offense overall til the end of the season, this offense has yet to show its comparable with the 2003/2004 offense.

If you really want to look at 2002, I'd say that the DEFENSE is what hindered us - that the defense essentially got old overnight and we paid the price in a 9-7 record.

 

[SVN]

Oh shut up...you know I didnt mean that. Brady has done a great job this season with the recievers he has. I am saying that they havent used him a lot and perhaps for good reason, and Brady hasnt thrown to him a lot, perhaps for good reason that he has a lot more faith in someone say Brown, Watson or Caldwell? Not once did I blame Brady or Belichick or McDaniels...

relax man, before you ask someone to shut up, mention the "perhaps for good reason" stuff in your original thread because i didnt know what you meant .
All you guys get so insulted for no reason when someone talks -ve about jackson as if he has played for the pats for 10 yrs and a hall of fame receiver and people are picking on him. When someone calls him out as a bust this yr you say brady hasnt thrown the ball and he hasnt been put on the field etc etc....
i dont have anything against jackson but iam not overly pro supportive of him either just because he is expected to, he is what he is this yr , a rookie who is injured and "perhaps for a good reason" not being used by the coaching staff...

nothing personal and dont take it personal about jackson, i could care less if he sat on the bench all yr and we keep winning...

 

[BelichickFan]

this offense has yet to show its comparable with the 2003/2004 offense.

It's not going to, especially 20004 - newsflash, all our WR are gone. But I have more confidence in this one that the 2001, 2002 and 2005 offenses. Not with what we had on the field today, although it was fine given the circumstances, but once Watson and Maroney are back. I'd say at that time this will be the third BEST offense in the Brady era. Third best out of seven.

 

[SVN]

That's not what we're saying at all.

I just think it's in the team's best interest for this season to find a way to maximize Chad Jackson's potential. His ceiling is a lot higher than any other receiver on this team, and I'm sure BB and all the coaches are aware of that. We all know how hard it is for wideouts as rookies, but if they want to win the Super Bowl this year, I really believe that Chad Jackson will have to be a part of that come playoff time.

I think the injuries have made it difficult for the coaches and for CJackson to go about reaching some of his potential, but today would have been a PERFECT day to try and give him as many opportunites to get his hands on the ball in an NFL game. Just think about the fact that this is a guy who caught 88 passes in a college season last year - the guy is used to being involved, and every athlete knows you need to feel involved, you need to feel part of the game. It's tough to just jump right in and make a play on the one or two times a game which your number is called, which CJ has been asked to do this season.

But, like you, I trust BB, I just wish things were different. I'm not criticizing BB, simply trying to say things haven't gone as I'd hoped for CJ this year, but that I think he can still contribute.

Though I have used the "BB knows best, you can't argue with him" defense myself, man it gets annoying when it's used against you!!

you guys keep saying people should be patient with jackson with injury and all then keep saying that the coaching staff should throw him the ball more....how do we know he is 100 % or has learnt all the routes etc ? maybe you guys need to be patient till next yr . Its tough to add someone in the game plan in 1 week when he hasnt been involved thus far...

 

[Kdo5]

relax man, before you ask someone to shut up, mention the "perhaps for good reason" stuff in your original thread because i didnt know what you meant .
All you guys get so insulted for no reason when someone talks -ve about jackson as if he has played for the pats for 10 yrs and a hall of fame receiver and people are picking on him. When someone calls him out as a bust this yr you say brady hasnt thrown the ball and he hasnt been put on the field etc etc....
i dont have anything against jackson but iam not overly pro supportive of him either just because he is expected to, he is what he is this yr , a rookie who is injured and "perhaps for a good reason" not being used by the coaching staff...

nothing personal and dont take it personal about jackson, i could care less if he sat on the bench all yr and we keep winning...

No, I always say mean words to people when I get fired up on the forums disagreeing about something. I shouldnt have said that.

Here is my final argument for Jackson. I think that after today Jackson should see more and more throws his way, and see if he is the guy to be with Caldwell in the starting WR group. Ofcourse I doubt he'll crack a starting spot this season but for next season we'll see.

Brown is older, he is still performing well but he isnt a starter anymore and he played poorly today. Gaffney may have scored a TD but he dropped too many passes, great passes.

So now that Gabriel is gonzo, who else do we try? Well that would be Jackson. If Brown or Gaffney isnt good enough than aybe Jackson is better than both as I believe he is capable of being.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Yet another pi$$ing match about Jackson. The kid was a projected first round pick. We got him in the second. He performed well during the spring. He got hurt at the beginning of camp. He has had a nagging couple of injuries, both of which are the type that can haunt a player and that players use for cop-outs, hence the doubts. Personally, with this team, he really has been haunted by them. He has seen spotty time during games at best.
That is his history.
Now for the obvious. Regardless of injury or youth, if he was performing on a consistent basis in practice, he would be playing more. If he showed the ability on a consistent basis, to run accurate routes, on time, with the correct adjustments to create separation and catch the ball during games, he would be playing more. The kid is a rookie failure. No big deal. Next year will determine what he develops into. But here is the rub....under the new CBA, rookies other than first rounders cannot be tied to long term rookie contracts. This means if he matures nicely next year and plays well....we are already looking at the end of his tenure with the Pats. For with the funny money around the league, he wont be around long. So to me, already, he's cost this team too much..... Unless we sign him to an extension after this season for cheap. Hmmmm

 

[SVN]

No, I always say mean words to people when I get fired up on the forums disagreeing about something. I shouldnt have said that.

Here is my final argument for Jackson. I think that after today Jackson should see more and more throws his way, and see if he is the guy to be with Caldwell in the starting WR group. Ofcourse I doubt he'll crack a starting spot this season but for next season we'll see.

Brown is older, he is still performing well but he isnt a starter anymore and he played poorly today. Gaffney may have scored a TD but he dropped too many passes, great passes.

So now that Gabriel is gonzo, who else do we try? Well that would be Jackson. If Brown or Gaffney isnt good enough than aybe Jackson is better than both as I believe he is capable of being.

iam not saying gaffny and co are any better, just not sure how much route running and timing and all jackson has got down...the 2 -3 throws he has got have all be sideline throws, yet to see them throw to him in proper crossing patterns or any such thing maybe since the jet game..so it seems obvious to me they dont think he is ready yet to run all these routes and plays...no offense-just to cite an example, randy moss will not fit into this offense but jerry porter will because he runs routes ;similarly , until jackson can show he can do it , the coaching staff is bringing him on slowly..and right now in the last stages of the season they are relying on going with exp receivers than bringing in the rookie.

 

[RayClay]

Good point raised - that high passing numbers don't equate to a Super Bowl team. They can indicate that the team was forced to pass because the running game wasn't there or the team was consistently behind.

Cleary the 2002 team was not one of the best -

The 2003 and 2004 teams could seemingly turn on the passing game at will - scoring, completing passes - including long pivitol passes - at crucial points to win games.

Although we're 10-4 there's likely NO ONE on this board who would suggest this is an offense to rival those - and NO ONE who thinks the team has shown that they can score and complete passes seemingly at will against good teams.

Bottom line - while I'll save my assessment of the offense overall til the end of the season, this offense has yet to show its comparable with the 2003/2004 offense.

If you really want to look at 2002, I'd say that the DEFENSE is what hindered us - that the defense essentially got old overnight and we paid the price in a 9-7 record.

The point is, we're not the worst anything right now. The title of this thread is stupid.

We have one young receiver that had a training camp and he's doing pretty well. We just had to cut someone. The other guy was picked up mid season and hasn't got the repetitions and our draft pick has been injured.

I am anxious to see improvement on the offense and I thought it was crisper today.

We had good field position and an early lead so we didn't see a great passing game. The screen passes were good.

I saw crispness, still a lot of room for improvement, but good rhythm on the running and passing.

I'm sorry Joe, improvement is a process, not a miracle.

People, (not you), that see some improvement and 40 points on the board and still post stuff saying worst offense evah!!!!!!! are babies.

Adults realize progress takes time and hard work.

We just cut Gabriel and are revamping our offense to include Gaffney and maybe Jackson.

I welcome any constructive talk about how to improve our offense this year, since that's all we can control.

Any parent knows that babies don't understand you can't have everything right away, so you just have to let them cry.